Education: Computer science graduating class of 2007 smallest this decade

ComputerWorld ^ | 2008-05-08 | Patrick Thibodeau

[Travis McGee]

Ping

[I_Like_Spam]

Maybe in some areas, but almost all of my friends who graduated with CS degrees last May are doing fine in the $65K range.
_________________________

How does that compare with those friends who graduated last May with civil or electrical engineering degrees? Or are involved in the quintessential American profession, sales?

[Etoo]

[And let me guess : the only solution is to H1B in more cheap labor!]

Well, yes and no.

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Ameriquest+Tavant+Arnall&btnG=Search

[CodeToad]

Many colleges have even closed their CS departments. The fact is that a person can still make $100K with no problem but the work sucks. The average software engineer is still a social reject, treated badly for it, and has considerable stress compared to most other corporate wonks.

[speekinout]

A good CS degree will teach basic fundamentals (things like data structures, object-oriented programming, computation, and algorithms) along with some practical applications. And, believe me, problem solving techniques do not change that quickly

Those are programming concerns. Programming is a lower level skill (sorry to be honest about it), and can easily be done by young high school graduates or people in other countries. A technical school programming course is as good as a CS degree from any college or university.
The real need is for people who understand the business and how to apply technical tools to it. Programming can be hired out; business plans shouldn't be.

[speekinout]

If you’re counting on hardware you have at home, you are still limiting your future. You very likely don’t have a geographically diverse network with diverse workstations. You’re doing low level work, maybe quite well, but as the work force becomes more computer savvy, few will need lower level skills. Haven’t you noticed that more people in all fields can do their own simple programming tasks? And that companies prefer to buy commercial software packages that are supported by the manufacturer direct to the end user?
You may want to be one of those who works for the manufacturer, but those are the jobs easiest to offshore.

Keep the job as long as you’re having fun, but you need to plan for a second career.

[Travis McGee]

Ping to Codetoad’s last.

[JamesP81]

Haven’t you noticed that more people in all fields can do their own simple programming tasks?

Not really. If anything, people seem to be getting even stupider by the hour.

[CodeToad]

“Programming is a lower level skill (sorry to be honest about it), and can easily be done by young high school graduates or people in other countries. “

Spoken like a manager with no knowledge of engineering. The fact is that computer programming is an easy skill but engineering software systems is still an extreme science with many significantly technical aspects that a typical high-schooler or third world wage slave can begin to comprehend.

[CodeToad]

“Haven’t you noticed that more people in all fields can do their own simple programming tasks?”

Having consulted to over 200 companies, no, I don’t see it. Never have. I have seen a handful of people TRY to make something work, but the results were always less than satisfactory. I hardly consider Microsoft Access an endeavor in programming.

[Etoo]

[Programming can be hired out; business plans shouldn’t be.]

You’re missing the part where the “business plan” gets deciphered into technical requirements and then formalized into specifications.

Millions of dollars have gone down the toilet; spent by companies who failed to understand this and “contracted” a bodyshop in India that promised to magically create software for them.

Also no mention of project management.

A good and smart project manager will contractually tie payment to clean QA of milestones.

For projects without a such a PM -

By the time the customer figures out that what’s been delivered to them is unmaintainable junk (Because they usually don’t have a QA process to verify functionality), the bodyshop has cashed the checks; and the “manager” who got such a “great deal” on low cost labor is long gone and working for a new company.

[Etoo]

My question regarding ethics is dead serious.

 

Much of the damage caused by the Subprime industry could have been prevented if there weren't so many complicit folks in IT/IS who were doing this:

 

 

 

 

Integrity and Ethics 101 should be part of every CS curriculum.   Until it is, you and your classmates will have to teach yourselves, and each other.

 

A Republic is a system of Government characterized by the Rule of Law. 

 

What kind of system will you create?  What kind of system will you allow?

 

It's in your hands, and in your code.

[CodeToad]

“and the “manager” who got such a “great deal” on low cost labor is long gone and working for a new company.”

I call it the 3”/5 Plan”. A 5 year plan guaranteed to fail but the manager is out in 3.

[Travis McGee]

I’m sure they heard, “You just shut up and write the code. We’ll do the thinking around here.”

[JamesP81]

Spoken like a manager with no knowledge of engineering. The fact is that computer programming is an easy skill but engineering software systems is still an extreme science with many significantly technical aspects that a typical high-schooler or third world wage slave can begin to comprehend.

You got that right. And in my computer science program when I was in college, as much of the program was about systems engineering as it was programming. In the company I work for, we only have three people in the IT department, counting myself. We're working on an enormous software project that we really ought to have about a dozen working on. Seeing how there is only thee of us, I do as much as systems design and analysis as I do actual coding.

[Etoo]

[I’m sure they heard, “You just shut up and write the code. We’ll do the thinking around here.”]

 

Compartmentalize the system.  Keep the code monkeys buried in obfuscated details so they can't see the forest.  Presume that, if they ever do perceive the forest, by the time they do so they've written so much of the system they've become complicit in the crime and entangled in the spider's web.

 

"But I vas only following orders"

 

I wonder if and why that strategy ever fails?  

 

"On my Honor, I will do my duty..."

 

Pesky Boy Scouts, teaching such silly ideas...

 

 

[Travis McGee]

bttt

[Etoo]

[rabscuttle385]

Are courses on ethics part of the current CS curriculum?

Depends on the school. Most require at least one course. In my case, I took a single 200-level STS course, and ethics is covered again during my senior thesis coursework.

[rabscuttle385]

How does that compare with those friends who graduated last May with civil or electrical engineering degrees?

The folks in civil doesn't make as much as we do. Their primary employer is the government. However, the EEs are making good money too.