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Obama’s Troubles Mount — Just in Time for the Latest Primaries!
NYMAG ^ | 03/04/2008 | Dan Amira

Posted on 03/04/2008 9:21:25 PM PST by fight_truth_decay

Obama, totally not saying the Pledge of Allegiance.
Photo: Getty Images

Barack Obama must be wondering how the worst press he’s received practically all campaign season came down just before today’s primaries — his chance to close the deal. He can look inward for answers. The big story, of course, is the meeting an Obama advisor, Austin Goolsbee, had with a Canadian official about NAFTA. After Canadian TV reported that Goolsbee had assured the Canadian official that basically all Obama’s tough talk on NAFTA was political maneuvering, the Obama campaign denied the meeting ever took place. Then, on cue, a Canadian memo surfaced confirming that the meeting did take place. The Obama campaign’s evasive answers and qualified denials have failed to placate a press corps determined to prove they’re holding Obama accountable. At the same time, a former Obama supporter, Antoin Rezko, begins his trial in Chicago for influence peddling. While nothing unethical or illegal has been proven about Obama’s relationship with Rezko, the fact that new details are still emerging raises doubts about Obama’s previous claims that he has divulged everything about their association. None of this meshes well with Obama’s claim to be running on a new kind of politics, and, from looking at the polls showing a Clinton rebound, voters are taking notice. • Michael Crowley holds up World News Tonight to show that Clinton is enjoying her best news cycle in a month. [Stump/New Republic]

• Andrew Romano doesn’t thinks there is much to the Goolsbee accusations, but believes even the hint of wavering on NAFTA could hurt Obama in Ohio tonight. [Swamper/Newsweek]

• Byron York thinks the Obama campaign’s evasiveness on the Goolsbee affair will keep the story alive, though he’s unsure whether it will significantly damage him. [National Review]

• John Nichols calls on the Obama campaign to take the NAFTA story more seriously and worries about the harm that “planting the seeds of distrust” on trade will do to him in the general election, if he makes it that far. [Nation]

• Josh Marshall notes that a YouTube clip of the Canadian Parliament that Obama sent around yesterday actually supports a key accusation against him. [Talking Points Memo]

• Vaughn Ververs writes that Obama is on the defensive when he should be making a final push in Texas and that his handling of the Goolsbee meeting is troubling. [Horserace/CBS]

• Aswini Anburajan details Obama’s testy exchange with the press corps yesterday, who accused him of dodging questions about the Goolsbee meeting and Rezko. [First Read/MSNBC]

• A Post editorial looks at Obama on Goolsbee and Rezko and at Clinton on tax returns and concludes nobody is being quite honest. [NYP]

• Catrin Einhorn reports that the Obama campaign is interested enough in the Rezko trial that they have a staffer taking detailed notes at jury selection, though supposedly she won’t stay for the whole trial. [Caucus/NYT] —Dan Amira



TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: canada; canadianmemo; fundraisers; goolsbee; nafta; obama; oh2008; rezko; taxplan; tx2008
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LEGAL • Manhattan's Tonic East restaurant will pay $35,000 to settle a lawsuit alleging that the eatery discriminated against blacks wearing hip-hop clothing and urban wear to a Super Tuesday event for Barack Obama supporters. [NYT]

Taxes And Consequences: Barack Obama's Tax Plan For Wall Street [DealBreaker]

1 posted on 03/04/2008 9:21:28 PM PST by fight_truth_decay
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To: fight_truth_decay

Shes gonna win the nomination, and we came THIS close to chasing her out of here. Shame on you Texan crossovers who denied us. What a bunch of maroons!


2 posted on 03/04/2008 9:23:48 PM PST by Nonstatist
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To: Nonstatist

“Shes gonna win the nomination, and we came THIS close to chasing her out of here. Shame on you Texan crossovers who denied us. What a bunch of maroons!”

Rush’s fault!


3 posted on 03/04/2008 9:28:19 PM PST by Birdsbane (If You Are Employed By A Liberal Democrat...Quit!)
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To: Nonstatist
Shes gonna win the nomination, and we came THIS close to chasing her out of here. Shame on you Texan crossovers who denied us. What a bunch of maroons!

Stupid to prop her up but I think she pulled it out in Ohio, not Texas. Still I will agree that any Texan that cross-voted for Hillary: "Shame on you."

4 posted on 03/04/2008 9:28:50 PM PST by torchthemummy ("The law of unintended consequences has not been repealed." - Fransam)
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To: torchthemummy

Looks to me like she got Texas, too.

Rush is an idiot.


5 posted on 03/04/2008 9:31:30 PM PST by SideoutFred (Save us from the Looney Left)
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To: fight_truth_decay

If anyone supports Obama, and I know a lot of Republicans secretly do, they need to ask themselves how a man who believes that any difficult problem will just go away if ignored long enough will handle an office where if you ignore problems they not only get larger, but someone else creates a new one because they sense weakness.


6 posted on 03/04/2008 9:32:20 PM PST by SlapHappyPappy
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To: Birdsbane

I got muddy and crossed the line and voted for Obama in Texas. We don’t play with rattlesnakes here we put em down like the vermin they are. Albeit just a primary it was first time I ever put a mark in the rat column. All for nothing.

I agree........Rush wasn’t looking out for the GOP he was looking out for his ratings.


7 posted on 03/04/2008 9:34:51 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.©)
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To: Nonstatist

I agree with you...it was insane to not drive the stake through her heart. She’ll stop at nothing...and will be even stronger when she gets done with Obama. Not to mention that she could very well choose him as her VP. Where will Rush be there then? Rush will have his mega millions and someone to complain about for at least the next 4 years while his minions listen to his every profitable word. HMMMM?????


8 posted on 03/04/2008 9:36:14 PM PST by Aria (NO RAPIST ENABLER FOR PRESIDENT!!!)
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To: torchthemummy

Megadittos to that.


9 posted on 03/04/2008 9:36:43 PM PST by Pikachu_Dad
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To: Aria

Texas Caucus votes - O is doing good.

Candidate Votes %
Barack Obama 3,737 56%
Hillary Clinton 2,906 44%
Other 1 0%
Uncommitted 1 0%


10 posted on 03/04/2008 9:37:47 PM PST by Pikachu_Dad
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To: Aria

So many chicken littles around here tonight. This is a good thing. Obama can’t lose (baring a complete meltdown)...the numbers favor him already. Hillary is like the Huckster...can’t win but staying in it just in case.


11 posted on 03/04/2008 9:38:10 PM PST by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: for-q-clinton

Well I sure hope you’re right but so far this is a very nerve wracking - and partially unnecessary - game of chicken.


12 posted on 03/04/2008 9:40:06 PM PST by Aria (NO RAPIST ENABLER FOR PRESIDENT!!!)
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To: Nonstatist

obama will win more delegates in texas after all of this is over. Remember, the primary is rigged to favor black districts and there is a caucus.


13 posted on 03/04/2008 9:40:54 PM PST by ari-freedom (Obama on the islamic call to prayer: ''one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset'')
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To: for-q-clinton

Yes, Hillary can win. Super delegates. It will go to the convention and ultimately come out with some back room deal for her.

I just think Obama is a lot easier to defeat. Of course the irony is that I can’t stand McCain but I’d rather have him than Obama. Hillary has big Mo on her side.


14 posted on 03/04/2008 9:42:07 PM PST by SideoutFred (Save us from the Looney Left)
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To: Nonstatist; MeekOneGOP
Yeah. I'm "proud" of our "crossover" Texans. Really, I am.
</sarcasm>

See This Post

And This Post

Yet another post

15 posted on 03/04/2008 9:42:47 PM PST by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Birdsbane
RUSH SPEAKS TO YOU: "Look, folks, I understand out there, many of you are worried here about my strategy. I don't even know if it's going to work. I don't know how many Republicans tomorrow in Texas, are going to cross over vote for Hillary. I don't know if it's happening in Ohio, either. I'm not urging action. It sounds like I'm urging action, but you know I don't give marching orders here. I'm just thinking aloud and telling you what I think is important to happen here. If either one of these two get the nomination -- and one of these is going to get it; it's either going to be Barack Obama or Hillary -- they're both ripe targets if we just don't run around and act afraid of them, and if we don't try to steal their voters at the expense of our own."

RUSH: Whoa! So here's Charlie Crist. I think Governor Crist perhaps may be a stealth practitioner of the Limbaugh strategy here. Do you not think so, Mr. Snerdley? There is no question Charlie Crist doesn't want this Democrat contest to end. There's no question that Charlie Crist wants -- and now Howard Dean weighs in. He was on the same show, and here's Wolf Blitzer. "You heard Governor Crist just tell me moments ago that he's ready to go ahead, support a redo here in Florida. Are you ready to accept his offer right now?"

DEAN: That's a very helpful thing for him to say because money is an issue here. Look, there's two possibilities. One is that there would be such a redo as Governor Crist might suggest, and two is that the party would come and have some other alternative that they would try to push with the credentials committee but we're very willing to listen to the people of Florida.

... What did Rush actually say...

RUSH: Whoa! Howard Dean here, throwing gasoline on the fire; opening up the possibility that if Florida pays for it, that they'll have another Democrat primary here!


16 posted on 03/04/2008 9:43:08 PM PST by fight_truth_decay
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To: ari-freedom

Yes, but that’s not how the press will spin it. It will be spun as Clinton winning.

Hell, if I was Clinton I would be screaming that she won Texas, Ohio, New York, California, New Jersey and Florida....all the big states she has won. That will resonate with many in her party. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a sea change in the coming weeks back to her.

Rush was an idiot on this one.


17 posted on 03/04/2008 9:43:44 PM PST by SideoutFred (Save us from the Looney Left)
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To: fight_truth_decay
Now, everybody is finding out that Osama is a greater fraud an empty suit than Hitlery. There’s shocker!
18 posted on 03/04/2008 9:43:51 PM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham ("The land of the Free...Because of the Brave")
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To: Birdsbane

“Rush’s fault!”

What did Rush do? I don’t listen to him.
Thanks,,


19 posted on 03/04/2008 9:44:21 PM PST by HereInTheHeartland ("We have to drain the swamp" George Bush, September 2001)
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To: Nonstatist

According to the CNN exit polls, only 9% of voters in the Texas Democrat primary were Republicans and they split 53-46 in favor of Obama.


20 posted on 03/04/2008 9:45:24 PM PST by writmeister
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To: ari-freedom

Clinton should pick up around 20 delegates, which Obama should get back in the next two primaries (Mississippi and Wyoming). Then Clinton could win Pennsylvania, but then comes Guam (and as Guam goes, so goes the nation) Indiana, North Carolina, West Virginia, Kentucky, Oregon, Montana, and South Dakota, which one would think would go to Obama, perhaps every one. So it’s hard to see how Clinton wins this.

I suppose there’s some chance if Florida and Michigan hold primaries and she wins those, but it’s definitely uphill.


21 posted on 03/04/2008 9:47:09 PM PST by TomEwall
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To: Squantos

“I got muddy and crossed the line and voted for Obama in Texas. We don’t play with rattlesnakes here we put em down like the vermin they are. Albeit just a primary it was first time I ever put a mark in the rat column. All for nothing.”

Being in Oregon, I will never get the opportunity to vote in a Primary and the timing of our Presidential vote has no bearing on said election. We are the lost and forgotten Republicans in a sea of poison cannibalistic Democritters. Can’t blame you for your cross-over vote to stop Hitlery, but I am glad that unless I move, I’ll never have to make a decision like that. All my votes go to Republicans, I will never scratch the ticket.


22 posted on 03/04/2008 9:47:58 PM PST by Birdsbane (If You Are Employed By A Liberal Democrat...Quit!)
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To: SlapHappyPappy

“If anyone supports Obama, and I know a lot of Republicans secretly do, they need to ask themselves how a man who believes that any difficult problem will just go away if ignored long enough”

Even imply there could be a terrorist attack and you’re “fear-mongering.” He never answers a national security question, because he’s hopeless, helpless, and ultimately a coward. Mention his middle name? “Fear mongering.” Mention terrorists don’t like us? “Fear mongering.” Mention that there might be the need for further military action in Iraq or that part of the world? “Fear mongering.” Mention that a president would need to be able to take emergency phone calls on horrible matters? “Fear mongering.”

He’s pathetic.


23 posted on 03/04/2008 9:51:03 PM PST by COgamer
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To: SideoutFred
Rush is an idiot.

He's a genius, I guess you don't understand his logic, McCain has a better chance to beat her than him, get it?

24 posted on 03/04/2008 9:52:41 PM PST by garylmoore (Faith is the assurance of things unseen.)
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham

Tuesday, March 4, 2008
25 posted on 03/04/2008 9:52:47 PM PST by fight_truth_decay
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To: Birdsbane

As a career NCO I understand ya have to leave the wire to get the enemy.........it was “just” a primary. I will use all the rat flyers I get in the mail to start my wood stove as I think we’re due a cold snap in politics. Rush is gonna catch hell from conservatives for this crap .

Stay safe !


26 posted on 03/04/2008 9:54:32 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.©)
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To: Nonstatist; Birdsbane; SideoutFred; torchthemummy
Well, I guess I must qualify as among other things, an idiot and a maroon, because although it made no difference here in VT, I voted for The Beast.

BTW, THIS WAS THE 1st TIME I VOTED FOR A DemoRat IN 44 YEARS, SINCE I VOTED FOR LBJ IN 1964.

I guess only time will tell whether Rush, myself and anyone else who crossed over, were correct in our thinking or those like yourself were. I despise the Clintons as much as anyone, but I fear fear Barack ("Peace Be Upon His Middle No Name") Obama even more

Moreover, as we all know no one including the RNC, McPain, the media, etc., will dare attack The Messiah, less they be painted as racists and bigots, therefore, the longer HRC and B.O. keep at each other's throats, the better it will be for us.

Chaos, tumult, confusion, etc., are good things when they are within the Dhumy party. Let them attack each other, spend more money, keep shooting themselves in the foot, and who knows, we could just pull this one out in November, although, Juan McLame will probably be just another Bush-Lite.

Hey, the way I see it, I'm just following the lead of our presumtive leader McPain, as he preaches (AND PRACTICES) "reaching across the aisle," if you will.

Last but not least, and for those who don’t remember or were not around in the early 70’s, it was the DemoRats who were primarily responsible for our having “surrendered” (even while we were winning) in Vietnam and the damage, pain and suffering we Nam Vets endured as a result thereof

As that old saying goes, “Revenge is a dish best tasted cold,” and its about time they were made to pay for their sins.

Thus, I went to the polls, pulled the lever, came back home, poured me a nice shot of VO, and toasted the memory of the 58,000 heroes who never made it back.

"This one's for you my brothers and sisters."

NO REMORSE--NO REGRETS!!!

27 posted on 03/04/2008 9:54:53 PM PST by Conservative Vermont Vet (One of ONLY 37 Conservatives in the People's Republic of Vermont. Socialists and Progressives All)
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To: for-q-clinton
Hillary is like the Huckster...can’t win but staying in it just in case.

Hitlery is hoping that a Linda Tripp-like whistle blower (so to speak) is going materialize from the vapor and reveal recorded phone calls and the location of some spilled Barry Hussein Obama DNA.

28 posted on 03/04/2008 9:54:58 PM PST by RoadKingSE (How do you know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a muzzle flash?)
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To: writmeister
My 19 yr. old daughter now lives and works in TX. She hangs out with a bunch of young, ambitious, upwardly mobile 20-somethings and they were all going to vote FOR Obama to get rid of Hillary. They are also all saying they will vote for McCain in the General.

I think there's a LOT more of that going on than is being accounted for in the MSM/drive-by media exit polling "analysis".

29 posted on 03/04/2008 9:55:03 PM PST by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: SideoutFred

"Rush is an idiot"


30 posted on 03/04/2008 9:56:54 PM PST by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: for-q-clinton
Obama can’t lose (baring a complete meltdown)...

Michigan and Florida will be a do-over, and she will win them. Obamadamadingddong is toast.

31 posted on 03/04/2008 10:01:54 PM PST by Nonstatist
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To: Nonstatist

Hillary still has a very bad math problem:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/118240/page/1


32 posted on 03/04/2008 10:19:11 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: SideoutFred

Doesn’t matter if Hillary creams Obama in every remaining primary and wins do overs in MI and FL. Obama still will lead in pledged delegates:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/118240/page/1


33 posted on 03/04/2008 10:22:40 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Nonstatist

As of this posting, she is up 80,000 votes in Texas. There were not that many Pubbies who crossed over for her. Some, I know for a fact, crossed over and voted for the closet Muslim; Osama-Obama.

If I was gonna do that, I’d have voted for Hillary. Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t know.


34 posted on 03/04/2008 10:24:20 PM PST by no dems (Political Correctness is Fascism.)
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To: Nonstatist
Dick Morris, asked VOTERS to cross over and vote (2X?) for Obama.

Ann Coulter endorsed Hillary.

Polls suggest that McCain can beat Clinton, but cannot beat Obama.

Nonstatist: Shame on you Texan crossovers who denied us...

Not all voters are of the like mindset. My comment would only be, it would have been more scientific in count of the data on "cross overs", if they had been required to "cross dress". There would have been more visible accuracy to arrive at a proper count. Now, with "closeted" cross overs being pulled both directions, they could just as easily have canceled each other out. See, all this "cross work" for nothing! Ha!!!

Rush, Coulter, Morris and others are sharing a belly laugh! Did not the Liberal media constantly chatter that Rush, Coulter and others no longer had any influence with Republicans, nipping at McCain like they were? Now, that same Obama-media will be blaming them, and/or specifically Rushbo for a Hillary win? or Obama win--get's confusing with all the "cross overs". I might be wrong, but is this not a kind of poetic justice?

Obama and Mrs.Obama have caused some controversy of late on their own that could easily effect their stats. The Honey Moon is pretty much over. So they would cause their own drop in numbers.

35 posted on 03/04/2008 10:47:52 PM PST by fight_truth_decay
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To: SideoutFred

rush is a genius. Just watch, the gloves come off and it is a bare knucle brawl from here on out. Hillary’s and hussein’s negatives will rival Dubya’s before this is over.
Plus it will show what attacks work and which do not. It is going to be fun to watch.


36 posted on 03/04/2008 10:51:00 PM PST by genghis
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To: Fiddlstix; Nonstatist

Don’t blame ME! :)

I voted for Fred (Thompson).


37 posted on 03/04/2008 11:09:04 PM PST by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: MeekOneGOP
Don’t blame ME! :)
I voted for Fred (Thompson).

Reminded me of this: Jackie and Dunlap

(laughs)

38 posted on 03/04/2008 11:18:08 PM PST by fight_truth_decay
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To: SideoutFred; StarFan; doug from upland
Hell, if I was Clinton I would be screaming that she won Texas, Ohio, New York, California, New Jersey and Florida....all the big states she has won. That will resonate with many in her party. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a sea change in the coming weeks back to her.

Did you hear her Ohio victory speech tonight? She already did that. She's already using the "I won the big states" bragging rights. She will win Pennsylvania for sure, and if there's a do-over in Florida and Michigan, she'll likely win both states as well.

Rush was an idiot on this one.

BIG time.

39 posted on 03/04/2008 11:18:27 PM PST by nutmeg (Obama supporters: Drink the Kool-Aid? Yes we can!)
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To: Birdsbane

Yep. Pitiful.


40 posted on 03/04/2008 11:24:40 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: fight_truth_decay
I see this slightly different. There's a large number of democrats that can't stand the Clintons and they were pushing the Obama train. Now with Hillary positioned to get the nomination, these anti-Clinton democrats will think seriously about voting Republican in the general election just to keep Hillary out of the White House.

-Traveler

41 posted on 03/04/2008 11:30:19 PM PST by Traveler59 (Truth is a journey, not a destination.)
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To: SlapHappyPappy

I can’t and don’t imagine any real republicans, especially conservatives, supporting Obama other than for getting hillary out. Anyone with half a brain couldn’t support either hillary or obama and even McCain but McCain may possibly be the least dangerous of the three. And half the country is split on Obama v. Hillary.

I’m shocked for the first time ever concerning our candidates. I think we’re screwed, in lesser degrees, but still screwed no matter who wins.


42 posted on 03/04/2008 11:33:57 PM PST by Twink
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To: fight_truth_decay; Nonstatist; Fiddlstix; potlatch; devolve; nicmarlo; y'all

LOLOL !

Now THAT ... IS funny !!!

Thanks. :)


43 posted on 03/04/2008 11:36:18 PM PST by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: nutmeg
Rush was an idiot on this one.

Rush probably was the smartest one of the litter, when all is said and done. ;)

Remember the "cross walk" went both ways.

Obama had some issues piling up, wifeypoo made some patriotism comments, Rizko was due in court on the 3rd (unwanted timely publicity). We got fund raising, we got our neighbor to the North and NAFTA, we got going into Iraq if there are terrorists there...............the list goes on.

Think you just might be giving credit where credit may not be due. But am sure Rush (Coulter) deeply thanks you, as he was denounced by the media that he had no longer held influence over Repubs.

Polls a couple weeks ago, said Hillary would be an easier win for McCain, but given today's market value, I think she and Obama are neck and neck in popularity.

Meanwhile, McCain identifies with an old comfortable bedroom slipper, compared to either on the other side. He could pick up on those old Fireside Chats like F. D. R.

My Opinion

44 posted on 03/04/2008 11:39:49 PM PST by fight_truth_decay
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To: Traveler59

Good thought.


45 posted on 03/04/2008 11:40:34 PM PST by fight_truth_decay
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To: Squantos

Why was it all for nothing? I voted on super tuesday and I’m in NJ so it’s not like it matters. I have friends in Texas who voted for Obama (republicans and Conservatives) since they knew McCain was going to get the repub nom. They voted for Obama just to get hillary out but they’d never vote for either one in the general.

I like Rush but he sure as hell wouldn’t be the reason I voted for anyone, and I agree, he’s an entertainer first. Although, I do think he’s a conservative and basically on our side.

I understand why those in Texas and other States crossed over since they had nothing to choose from really, and here in NJ we didn’t have much but had more than the states today and those still having to vote in the primary.

Does Hillary winning Ohio and Texas (I’m really shocked about Texas) mean all that much in the general? Texas will never go to Hillary or Obama, right?


46 posted on 03/04/2008 11:46:52 PM PST by Twink
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To: Twink

Well Hillary is still here and that is why I did as yer friends did here in TX. To exterminate her political ambitions for President this election. Didn’t.......all for nothing if we lost. Good deal had we made it work. Rush’s message too the sheeple was to vote for her to keep her in the DNC title fight to cost them more money and grief....

Good or bad I tried......:o)

Stay safe !


47 posted on 03/04/2008 11:59:43 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.©)
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To: Squantos
We don’t play with rattlesnakes here we put em down like the vermin they are.

That's right!

48 posted on 03/05/2008 12:01:51 AM PST by torchthemummy ("The law of unintended consequences has not been repealed." - Fransam)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

Excellent post. I was just a child then but recall clearly what my Dad and Mom said then. One of the clearest memories I have was my mom waking me up in the middle of the night to watch on TV some of our Soldiers coming home, must have been the early 70’s. And my Dad totally ticked off by our Country (he was a WWII vet)at that time.

I fear all of them but I do fear Obama more for some reason.

I wish I had my husband’s positive outlook. He’s for sure that Hillary or Obama will never be President/CIC.


49 posted on 03/05/2008 12:04:46 AM PST by Twink
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

I voted for The Beast.

And you did the right thing in this situation.
ObamaRama and his CULT are much, much worse than Hilarity could ever be.
She can be beat much easier in Nov.

Rush understands this.


50 posted on 03/05/2008 12:23:40 AM PST by Confed
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