Posted on 02/16/2008 2:48:33 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger
Thursday's massacre on the campus of Northern Illinois University was the seventh mass shooting in the U.S. in the past month. In the almost-10 months since the nation's worst school shooting killed 33 people at Virginia Tech, debate has grown over campus security and gun laws.
Thought the majority of students and universities are pushing for tighter regulation, a vocal minority rejects the idea that tougher gun laws will make schools safer.
Michael Guzeman, the leader of the Texas chapter of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, joined "Good Morning America Weekend" Saturday to make the case for his organization.
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus claims to have more than 12,000 members nationwide, dedicated to legalizing concealed weapons on American college campuses.
"Tougher gun laws don't deter criminals. If criminals cared what the law says, they wouldn't be called a criminal in the first place, they would be law-abiding citizens," Guzeman said.
He argues that gun laws won't help because they are unenforceable, and the recent campus shooting proves that. "In all these cases we see multiple gun laws have been violated. The campus at NIU is a gun-free zone. That's a gun law right there … you're on your honor to abide by them. Gun laws don't work."
GMAW anchor Bill Weir asked Guzeman why he thought his shot would be more accurate than that of a police officer.
"It's a different situation between civilians that are armed and police that are armed. When police respond there's multiple police officers, they're at a safer distance, 20, 30 feet away. And one officer doesn't fire, it's multiple officers firing," he said. "[If] it's one person, one criminal, a robbery, mugging, things of that sort [where] the victim is a couple feet away, you don't have to be a crack shot," Guzeman responded.
Gun advocates often point to the statistic that the in the majority of self-defense gun incidents, a shot is never fired. In their logic, simply brandishing the firearm is enough to deter the criminal.
The idea of a classroom full of armed students, though, sounds like a dangerous situation that could deteriorate quickly though.
Guzeman said that such a scenario would not happen because "only people who already have a concealed handgun license" would be armed.
"We want to give students a sense of having recourse to do something, rather than sit and pray and hope everything turns out okay and wait for the police to show up," Guzeman said.
There are close to 13,000 members on the Facebook group, and these members are spread out across hundreds of campuses nationwide.
We conducted an Empty Holster Protest in October of 2007.
As of today, there are thirteen states considering legislation to expand firearm carry on campus:
Alabama: SB 437
Arizona: SB1214: amending section 13-3102, Arizona Revised Statutes; relating to weapons.
Georgia: HB 915 - Second Amendment Protection Act of 2008
Idaho: SENATE BILL NO. 1381
Kentucky: HB114 - Allows for carry in cars
Michigan: HB 4759:
Mississippi: House Bill 1286 - License to carry concealed weapon; authorize holders to carry weapon on college campuses.
Nevada: SB 286
Ohio: HB 225
South Carolina: South Carolina Lawmakers Consider Allowing Concealed Weapons on Campus
South Dakota: South Dakota House supports guns on college campuses
HB 1261
Virginia: HOUSE BILL NO. 424 - Faculty w/permits cannot be punished
Washington: SB 6860 - Prohibiting institutions of higher education from adopting rules concerning the possession of firearms.
This is some important stuff going on right now. The fact that people continue to go on shooting rampages inside these so-called "gun-free zones" is an absolute travesty, but one which we are making progress on.
I need each and every single one of you that is reading these words now to call your representative, and, if your state is one of the above 13, urge them to support, co-sponsor and pass the proposed measures. If not, call your legislator and tell them that you would like to see students' right to defense restored in your state. (Not valid in Utah, they already let students carry.)
Call your local talk shows. Spread the word of mouth. Write letters to your papers.
This isn't just about gun rights. This is about human rights. This is about human SAFETY. Blood continues to be spilled on these campuses while utopia-minded college officials continue to operate in their insulated, politically correct sphere of ignorance. Please do your part, get behind us, help support us. If you have kids at college, or know kids at college, have them contact your local campus leader. If there are not yet any given leaders on one of your campuses, there is nothing to stop someone from becoming the coordinator.
ALSO: If you are one of the higher-ups in media, or know how to contact them - Ann Coulter, Michele Malkin, Neal Bortz, Marc Levin, Rush Limbaugh - ANYBODY, please contact me. My e-mail address is DaveLoneRanger at yahoo.com. We need backing from all the big guns we can get.
Help us see to it that students are no longer defenseless on college campuses.
Bless you and I pray for your success.
I would favor permitting concealed weapons for those who can pass a competence test, and prove they are not insane or on medications for emotional disorders. A certification by a mental health background check might be in order.
Anyone not proving they are at least sane should not be given a permit for carrying a concealed weapon. I know this flies in the face of the 2nd Amendment, but the founding fathers never had to deal with psychiatric prescriptions.
Why, yer CRAZY!!
catch 22 :^)
“A Glock in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.” – Somebody
“When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away,”
“I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.”
Glock when a 5 minute response time is a death sentence.
Excellent! Keep up the good work.
The big lie is in the headline. In virtually every instance, the issue is not whether “students” should be allowed to carry. The issue is whether those who are licensed to carry should be prohibited from carrying on campus. That means people over age 21, which excludes most college “students.”
The MSM is using deceptive language to make this all sound unreasonable.
Now, the typical senior in college turns 21 that year. And some students are older than that. But the issue is not about whether the individual is enrolled or not.
Of course, in some states, the college that cannot prohibit licensees from carrying can still prohibit students from carrying under college rules (similar to employees.) But that is NOT what this story is about.
That’s giving a hell of a lot of power to psychiatrists.
Uh, that was your comment...
Yeah, but look who the mass murderers have been lately. Wackos not taking their meds, able to get their hands on weapons too easily. I really hate to admit it, but some people just should not be allowed to have guns. Got any better ideas?
No. College students should not be provided concealed carry permits. I teach in a college and have little faith that students I know would be good candidates to respond to an emergency involving a firearm. Most likely, more students would shoot themselves or someone else given the culture of violence that we live in.
Wow, you and Hillary are soulmates on this issue!
How about if folks who couldn't "prove they're sane" (whateve THAT means) weren't allowed to drive cars? Or have children? Or live near grammar schools?
You certainly don't have much faith in your fellow citizens, and you're certainly willing to give your government a phenomenal amount of power!
You sure you're on the right discussion list???
That is absolutely correct. At a question-and-answer session at my local university the present federal age restriction never came up, and has been systematically excluded from every newspaper and television account of the issue I've come across.
The question is simply this - should campuses adopt the same laws that apply in town? But that doesn't frighten enough people. So it's presented "should innocent children be exposed to armed lunatics?" That they already are is also tactfully left unmentioned. What a bunch of BS.
I disagree. Its a pain in the ass to get a license in the first place. For good reason perhaps, but piling more crap on top of what we already have to go through is just redundant. In Texas, you need to go through an intruction course that ranges from 4-8 hours. That costs 150 dollars. And then you have to display marksmanship proficiency. And then sign a bunch of papers, get finger printed (Yay database) then send the paperwork to Austin and then they do extensive background checks on you. Another 150 dollars. Military experience helps and its free. They don't just hand them out. I think the rules they have in place now are more than enough.
All adults of military age and older should be allowed to carry anywhere , anytime and punished for their crimes if they occur. More good people in this world than bad people and guns just cull the herd of criminals faster.............and keep America safer.
just my opinion of course.
Concealed? There should be restrictions. Sorry we disagree on this one, but too many people have been shot in recent years by seriously mentally disturbed people.
Why wouldn't it?
I’m willing to consider any other method of keeping guns away from mentally ill patients.
Do you have any facts to back up such and ignorant statement or do you operate on opinion, bias and emotion.?
See #20. If you have a better way to keep mentally ill people away from weapons, I’ll go along with you.
I have a son in NC State who is of age this year. He's balanced and shoots straight. Why should he be denied the right of self-defense by anyone? Do those that deny those rights ever step forward after a VA Tech incident to admit that they have blood on their hands?
The 2A is an individual enumerated right. The ending part of that sentence is "shall not be infringed".
And I have little faith in the judgment of those I know who teach in colleges, especially when it involves whether or not other folks are entitled to possess the means of their own defense.
I personally attended a "downtown" college for night classes for several years - Wayne State, in Detroit, not your typical garden spot - and I always carried a firearm for self-defense.
Illegally, of course, but I didn't fear arrest; there were NEVER any cops anywhere around...
How many of your students are 21 years old or older? I've served my country for almost 5 years now. I'm also a college student and I already have my concealed handgun license. You're telling me that I can be responsible for a 50 million dollar aircraft with 80 passengers but I can't carry a gun on campus? I'm not seeing the logic...
I think the young man in the interview forgot one thing... When asked about his “concealed carry” he admitted to carrying... Not a very good way of concealing.
This isn’t about the permit process itself. This is only about letting people who already possess permits carry on campus.
Oh, in "in our logic," eh?
Well, all those papers I had to sign, a few of the questions involved history of mental illness and prescriptions. And then you’re background checked anyway.
You catch on quick! ;-)
Oddly enough, there are!
And as a matter of fact, concealed-carry permit holders are provably considerably more reliable, provably far less likely to commit a crime with a firearm (or any other sort of crime for that matter) than the general citizenry.
But I guess it's all a matter of whether you're the sort of person who takes care of himself, or the sort who expects someone else to be around to take of you.
Answer is now obvious. Yes. Students should be allowed to be armed.
You’re a little too late, and a little off the mark here, but hear me out.
I am a college student. I have a concealed deadly weapon permit. So college students already can obtain permits. Anyone who already has a permit is already capable and permitted to carry a deadly weapon into thousands of other locations in a given state. I can carry into shopping malls, churches, theaters and banks. I frequently do.
Next class you have, ask your students if any single one of them has a permit. If no, then you are judging hundreds and thousands of other students based on the small sample you have, which is unfair.
Where do you derive the statistical statement of likelihood about the actions of students shooting themselves (there are dozens of other methods of suicide) or giving into a culture of violence. (By obtaining a permit??)
If these people are truly "wackos", then shouldn't they be locked up? Why are they running around in public?
The Virginia Tech shooter was judged mentally unstable. That was all. Despite this, his actions were all quite rational, though unthinkable to us...he had time to write notes, mail packages, and set up his attack by chaining the doors shut.
You’re hearing that the ISU shooter was off his medication, but he had not been adjudicated mentally unstable. Nor were any of the other mass shooters that I am aware of.
My theory is that gun companies put an enzyme into the chemical makeup of the pistol frame that, once held, triggers the phsycho gene in everyone and makes them go on a shooting rampage.
And by the way, how are those “gun-free zones” working out for us? These mass shootings we’re talking about have all taken place inside “gun-free zones.”
College gun bans are on the honor system. Guess what? Murderers have no honor.
Should Students Carry Concealed Guns on Campus?
Not if they trust campus security to protect them. You guys who have been to college know what I mean.
ping
Don’t tell us...tell it to your local paper.
Umm, duh. People who are crazy, don’t care about no stinkin’ permit. They just carry anyway, and to heck with the consequences. That’s why those of us who care about obeying the law need some protection.
You know, from those crazies who have nothing to lose.
And the founding fathers didn’t have to deal with psychiatric prescriptions, because crazy people were left to be crazy as they wanna be. Psychiatric meds can be a good thing.
And who the heck wants to have to prove to the government that they’re sane before they can have their constitutional rights bestowed?
Maybe we can just do it that way for you, and leave the freedom for the rest of us.
Has there been a college instance where students were not shot while waiting to be rescued?
The fact is very few college students are mature enough to have a concealed weapons permit period.
Today’s as in the past, alcohol, drugs, parties. late nights, frat rivalries, college athletic rivalries just to mention a few reasons not to allow these kids with guns concealed or not.
Often fueled by the above mentioned reasons combined with heightened testosterone levels of most red blooded late teens in my opinion would just be asking for problems ending no doubt in greater or more common tragedies by poor decisions fuelled by emotions and drugs or alcohol.
Not sure what the answer it but I doubt giving these kids the right to carry arms on campus would be the better choice.
Crime in terms of simple thefts , rapes, the mass murders would be deterred by a sign that says
I mentioned that to him.
No, if someone pulls a gun around me, I will blow his head off. I just don’t think there are very many sane people on college campuses these days. And that includes faculty members, since I live near Duke and UNC.
Thanks for the advice. I have. So far it hasn’t been printed and I’m not holding my breath. It isn’t so much that the MSM have an agenda on the matter, although many of them do. That which does not fan the controversy commonly ends up on the editor’s floor, and that which does not make people afraid does not fan the controversy.
Does it?
I'd feel safer cuz if some jackass decided to do something, 30 others would draw down.
I remember coming back to the dorm at 1 or 2 am with friends and just for fun dropping fire crackers by the guard station to startle him awake.
Yes, it’s a “special needs” kind of logic that only applies in our world.
Whereas their logic of “ban all the good guys from carrying guns so the bad guys have an easier go at it” is universal.
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