Wilderness Under Threat as Visitors Stay Indoors

Guardian Unlimited ^ | February 5, 2008 | David Adam

[Wavrnr10]

For a family of four to enjoy a park camping trip for a weekend, lets look at something. Lets say this is a young couple that does not have the equipment.

1. A good tent for four $130.00
2. simple cookware $30.00
3. food for the weekend $60.00
4. camping permit $30.00 $15.00 per night some are more
5. firewood $30.00 some parks do not allow outside wood brought in and you must purchase it from them
6. sleeping needs $60.00 $15.00 per mattress
7. fuel cost $60.00 this includes cook stove fuel if brought along.
8. misc. $50.00 this is bug repellent, games for the kids, snacks for hiking, etc.

Now take this and tell me.....wouldn’t a nice weekend at the beach at a $85.00 a night hotel make much more financial sense?

[Be_Politically_Erect]

Not surprising given the penchant of the feds to lock up wilderness areas by not allowing motorized travel and limiting access to walking only.

Also are the ridiculous prohibition against carrying a firearm (outside of hunting seasons) for self protection against both 4 and 2 legged predators.

And just for good measure, let’s throw in the almost annual increase in fees for using wilderness areas and parks.

[Appleby]

I do the same here in the city. Actually, it is part of my Lenten plan for this season. It amazes me every time I see a well-dressed Yupscale woman toss a half-full Starbucks cup on the steps of a downtown building, and even more when she allows her three small children to throw half-eaten pizza slices, half-gnawed biscuits, and McDonalds papers broadcast on the subway floor all around them. (I had one of them snap at me the other day that the stuff was ‘biodegradable’ — yeah, on the sidewalk???????)

If these are the people who are falling out of love with nature, thank God for small favours.

[TYVets]

In fact, park police are so understaffed there’s another story out today saying they can’t adequately protect icons like the Statue of Liberty, Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial, etc.

More important, what are they doing to protect the people who visit these "icons" and national parks?

They want disarmed people visiting these sites.

No thank you.

[bert]

Aside from the fact that your numbers are mostly wrong, your rationalization is seriously flawed.

The fixed assets should be considered as capitol equipment. I just returned from a two week camping trip to southern Florida that cost $18 to $25 pernight in state and national parks...... with electricity.

Among the old, reused many times equipment were two down sleeping bags that have been well maintained since the purchase in 1975.

When the reuse factor is calculated, the cost per night now is near 0

Buy good equipment and use it many times.

[T-Bird45]

Cell phones were not ever-present with kids during my Scoutmaster days so you certainly have my support in fighting the good fight to give the boys a truly “natural” experience. If the parents think you are from Mars, I’m certain they would think I’m some kind of time-traveler/throwback.

As to the general topic of the thread, I am reminded of an old Jetsons comic I read back in the 60s where George and the family went to a “National Space Park” that was supposed to provide a “primitive” experience. George was enthused about hiking among the trees and streams but was dismayed to find moving sidewalks with signs to not get off the sidewalk. Sounds like where the greenies want us to be as well-trained/conditioned consumers of the PC wilderness experience...

[BikerJoe]

The problem is that we aren’t video games or TV or mp3 players and that when you go out on a trip with us, you actually have to do something to take care of your own comfort.

Boy, you guys are strict :-) When I was in Scouts (in the '70's), I would take my little portable shortwave with me to see what I could pick up at night. But, of course, we DID make latrines and get dead trees for firewood and hike (and hike and hike, we were a hiking troop) and cook our own food, etc.

These days, I look at our military in Iraq demanding bottled water and remember our canteens and lister bags.

[Sawdring]

Lets revise this a little bit:

Start-up costs for camping:

1. Good tent for four: $130.00
2. Simple cookware: $30.00
3. Sleeping needs/Sleeping bags: $80.00/person
4. Cookstove: $70.00

Now for the actual camping trip:

1. Food for the weekend: $60.00
2. Camping permit: $12.00/night
3. Firewood: $12.00
4. Fuel cost for cook stove: $8.00
5. Misc/games/snacks/bug repellent: $50.00
6. Bar tab for weekend (Strohs 30 Pack) $18.00

Now lets go to the beach:

1. Hotel room: $85.00/night
2. Eating six meals out fam of 4: $240
3. Misc. games/suntan oil/snacks/floats $60.00
4. Jet Ski rental: $95/hr per person
5. Bar tab at beach and hotel $45/ per day (Conservative estimate)

Lets figure staying Friday night and leaving Sunday morning. This is is what we get: Initial start up costs for camping = $550.00. The cost for a weekend of camping = $172.00. The cost for a weekend at the beach = $655.00. Lets add the start up costs of camping to the weekend of camping and we get: $772.00. Its cheaper to go camping than to spend the weekend at the beach.

[RKV]

I’ve been a scout leader myself, and I don’t agree with you at all. Its the government that locks the gates and lets the roads fall into disrepair. Not the parents. And if your kids parents don’t get it you need to educate them. Yeah there are lions and tigers and bears out there in the real world. Snakes, too.

[Clemenza]

There are more people playing the tables in Gatlinburg these days than walking the streets.

[geopyg]

That and all of the No Hunting signs. Hunters and fisherman are the largest block of conservationists there is and put the most money into conservation.

[RonF]

I’ve been a scout leader myself, and I don’t agree with you at all. Its the government that locks the gates and lets the roads fall into disrepair.

As I say, I've never had a problem finding places to camp. And every time I've called the Department of Conservation/Natural Resources in any State (Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana and Michigan) I've had nothing but the highest level of cooperation. No problems with roads, no problems with locked gates. Lots of places for kids to see and hear some wildlife.

I've never wanted to go anywhere that I'd like to take Scouts to that I've been locked out of or that I've had access problems to.

Educating my parents is the biggest problem. They don't want to listen - actually, the problem is that most of the fathers don't even come to the meetings when I have asked parents to show up, and a significant fraction of the mothers think that I am obviously crazy to want to take their kid rock climbing/white water rafting/away from home for a week into the woods.

[RKV]

Here in the People’s Republik of Kalyfornia huge chunks of our backcountry roads have been locked in my lifetime.

[Bigh4u2]

“Thanks for cleaning up! People look at you weird when you do, but oh well...”

A few do, but on that day is was kind of amazing to watch the people, who previously just walked by the trash like it was supposed to be there, actually ask me for a garbage bag to help pick it up.

I think the trash really bothers people but when they see it, it just doesn’t seem to dawn on them that THEY could pick it up and not leave it for the janitor.(so to speak)

It was an interesting trip.

[RonF]

If some Scout came to me and said, “Mr. F, I want to work on my Radio MB at camp - can I bring a shortwave?” I’d be more than happy to approve it. But then I could make a teaching moment out of it, talking to the kids about the difference between daytime and nighttime radio propagation, the ability to use shortwave to listen to news from foreign countries, etc. It would be something to bring the kids together and interact with the world, rather than separate and withdraw from it.

[RonF]

I've been up to Quetico (a 2.5 million acre Ontario Provincial Park across the border from the BWCAW) 8 times. Twice on BSA trips with my Troop. The first one we outfitted through the BSA's Charles L. Sommers Canoe Base in Ely, Minn. You can read the trip report here. The second time I guided it myself and we outfitted through Canoe Canada in Atikokan, Ontario. My family has outfitted trips through them for 21 years and I highly recommend them. Wonderful trips.

I have been to Philmont, but it was a tour, not a trek. In September Philmont runs a fly fishing trip for Scouters from various Councils, and I got to go last year. I (and my Scout Executive) drove from Albuquerque through Santa Fe and Taos to Philmont. We tossed our bags into a cabin and then went off site for a bison barbecue with adult beverages, and got a tour of a local museum. Great stuff! The next two days were essentially a tour. We weren't actually particularly interested in fly fishing (we did about 3 hours worth), so our guide drove us all over about 1/2 of Philmont. We saw wild turkeys, wild burros, elk, antelope, deer, bison, and T-Rex tracks. It really makes me want to get some Scouts up there for a trek before I get too old to make one.

[RonF]

The nice thing about Canoe Canada, BTW, is that they’ll provide as much or as little outfitting as you need, and they are used to working with Scout groups. If you need everything but the clothes on your back, they can do that. If (like me and my brothers) you bring all your own gear and food and all you need are permits and canoes, they can do that, and adjust pricing accordingly. If you want a great trip, and want the wind at your back coming back into base, check them out at www.canoecanada.com.

[gardengirl]

Where’s Watkin’s Glen?

Most of the parks here in eastern NC are well maintained, not much trash. Sometimes people just need a nudge to do the right thing. The waterways here are a big issue. You should see the flotsam and jetsam after a hurricane. It’s as if the ocean is spitting it all back out. All the trash and marsh grass gets washed up on the road in huge drifts. They have to use bulldozers to get it up. You can’t burn it. :)

[Bigh4u2]

“Where’s Watkin’s Glen?”

New York State.

Southern Tier, around Elmira,NY.

[gardengirl]

Thanks! Hubby has people in Cape Vincent. Beautiful country—in July!