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Posted on 12/29/2007 8:40:49 AM PST by tcg
Following our first interview with Governor Mike Huckabee there was an intimation of anti-catholicism by several pundits and commentators. We asked the Governor directly about this and about another issue of importance to our Catholic Online readers and viewers.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...
Well Catholics are the second biggest group of people sneaking across our border. LOL
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According to the CIA or the Denver Post? :)
Boy Huckabee really has set his store on a religious approach to this campaign. To my mind, he has walked into a huge trap by discussing religions rather than public policy issues. It’s one thing to draw on support from religious folks, quite another to be in the middle of a storm over whose religion is best, or whether you discriminate against some religions.
This is breaking news?
tcg: “In regard to exceptions, experience has shown that health of the mother exceptions are so broad that they result in ‘carte blanche’ abortion on demand. Consequently, I do not support an exception in those terms.”
I’m no doctor, but Huck seems awfully sure of himself. So abortion is never medically necessary to save the life of the mother? Apparently some doctors disagree, but I suppose Huck’s “theology” degree gives him a better understanding of the various medical issues.
Abortion shouldn’t be an alternate form of birth control, but I won’t go so far as to say it’s always morally wrong. So long as the doctors aim to preserve life, I don’t believe it’s sinful to choose to terminate one life in order to save another. That isn’t the same thing as murder. To put it another way, there’s a huge difference between an abortionist and a MD who is trying to make the best possible decision for all lives involved. Any doctors in FReeperland agree or disagree?
Has been discussed, rediscussed and discussed again on these pages and many others.
Suffice it to say, an actual threat to the mother's life from a non-ectoptic pregnancy is so rare as to be nonexistent in most ob-gyn practices. I just read the other day that death to the mother from a rupture related to even an ectopic pregnancy is rare now, providing she can be treated quickly at a modern medical facility.
I personally know of a case in which it was stated that a young woman's life would be endangered by a pregnancy due to her congenital disorders, yet she went on to have five children, all doing well as is she.
What would you or Huckabee do with the not non-existent occurrences?
**second biggest group **
Aren’t they the first?
Are you a medical doctor? Are you stating abortion is never, ever medically necessary?
Notice in that quote he is talking “Health” exceptions and not “Life” exceptions. Big difference!
Many that are pro-life would accept a “Life of Mother” exception but the RATS will vote against that because they know that would be one in a million.
Rats want the “Health” word used because they can justify 100% of abortions by saying anything could effect health.
A headache or any such side effect of birth would qualify for them.
Salvation: “Pray for an end to abortion and the conversion of America to a mindset of life!”
Agreed! As a Christian, I have an obligation to witness and convince others to have “a mindset of life!” That is truly the best way to protect life, far better than using law to enforce morality. Law is very poor substitute for individual morality.
Beagle8U: “Notice in that quote he is talking “Health” exceptions and not “Life” exceptions. Big difference!”
Sounds quite reasonable to me. I have never heard of “life” exceptions as opposed to ones for “health,” but based on your post, life exceptions seem a very reasonable approach. Believe me, I’m pro-life. I think the unborn should be cherished and loved, even in cases of rape and incest, but I’m not in favor of using the heavy hand of the federal government to make all abortions illegal. The real problem here is a SCOTUS that usurped our power by making abortion a right. The best way to win this culture war is by winning hearts and minds, not creating new laws.
BTW, I don’t think Huckabee has a nuanced view of abortion like yourself. I think he sees it more as a black and white issue. Either way, his support for a HLA is irrelevant, because he almost certainly cannot deliver one. He MIGHT be able to appoint judges who are opposed to Roe v. Wade, but he cannot even guarantee that. In other words, his effective position on abortion is the same as most of the other Republican candidates.
I don’t have a “nuanced” view of abortion. I’m 100% pro-life on the abortion issue.
I would vote for an abortion ban with a “Life” exception but against a “Health” exception for the reasons I stated.
I support Fred Thompson BTW.
Another sermon by Brother Huckabee?
There are a lot of ways to fight abortion — offering alternatives, educating people to what abortion really is, etc. But the MOST IMPORTANT thing one can do is to make abortion illegal — to shut down the abortion mills. Sure, there will still be some illegal abortion, but there is illegal prostitution and murder now.
Thank you very much for the personal story. That, to me, seems the best way to cope with a problem pregnancy. People should favor life and do everything reasonable to protect the lives of both mother and unborn. If, God forbid, a situation threatened the life of the triplets or mother where a choice needed to be made, I would prefer the choice be left to the parents (based on the available medical information) and not determined by law. I suspect my opinion is also the majority opinion in the US. Those who are adamantly in favor of or opposed to abortion in every circumstance are not in the mainstream of political thought, and as long as abortion foes continue to fight an all or nothing battle on abortion, they will likely be disappointed. Agree?
guitarist: “But the MOST IMPORTANT thing one can do is to make abortion illegal — to shut down the abortion mills.”
Perhaps, but that isn’t likely to happen, at least not nationally. I’ll go as far as to say it almost certainly won’t happen nationally. In my opinion, this issue needs to return to States. People, like Huckabee, who want to rewrite the US Constitution to fit their socially conservative agenda won’t succeed. They don’t have the numbers. That may not be a popular opinion, but I think it’s an accurate one.
I happen to be very socially conservative, btw, but where does individual morality and responsibility come into this? Do we conservatives actually think we can win simply by passing laws? Laws, for the most part, reflect society.
In the days before Roe v. Wade, when the size of the abortion holocaust was unthinkable, Ronald Reagan was persuaded as governor of California to sign a bill allowing abortion to protect the life or health of the mother.
He did so, I believe, because he had no idea how that would be twisted by the Culture of Death. When he saw what happened, that “health” would be twisted to mean any trivial excuse, he repented having signed the bill, and was reliably pro-life thereafter.
As others have indicated on this thread, the health clause became an excuse to kill for any and all reasons. Basically, it was interpreted as a convenience clause.
Catholic teaching says that if the life of the mother is genuinely at risk, then an abortion can be licit, not because an abortion is intended, but because it is an unfortunate side effect of saving the mother’s life.
Such instances are extremely rare. Tubal pregnancies are one case, where at least until recently it was impossible to save the baby’s life, and if nothing was done the mother would die too.
Another instance is if the mother has cancer, chemotherapy is necessary to save her life, but the side effects of it would abort the baby. There have, in fact, been several instances where mothers have voluntarily died in such circumstances in order to save the baby, but that is a voluntary decision on their part, not required by the Church’s teachings. Still, one such mother who died for her child has been named a saint. Which is to say that such a sacrifice amounts to extraordinary virtue and love, not something that can be required.
Campaign non-news hardly BREAKING.
Huckabee is not my candidate, but this has not been fair to him at all. It was posted last week that Huck spoke at Hagee’s church and Hagee has made anti-Catholic remarks. The intimation was that Huck agrees with anti-Catholicism. What a reach!! Alleging guilt by association is evil.
In addition, how true are the allegations re Hagee?
Jesus befriended a tax collector; did that make him an endorser of usury, etc.?
These kinds of smear “controversies” are for the brain-dead.
I don’t believe Catholic Online is an official Church source either, but an independent forum with its own take on the faith.
The allegations against Hagee come from Hagee’s own book, which is an ugly revisionist view of history that blames the Catholic Church and its theology for the Holocaust.
I’ve searched far and wide trying to find the full text of Huckabee’s sermon at Hagee’s church, but it’s not to be found. I would love to know if he said anything to Hagee’s flock about anti-Catholicism, since he’s so pro-Catholic and all. I would bet not, since he called the bigot Hagee “one of the great Christian leaders of our nation.”
Like Huckabee’s other sermons from his stint as a Baptist minister, this appears to be under lock and key. I wonder why? Shouldn’t we get to judge this man, who presents himself as a “Christian leader,” on his words about Christ?
As for Catholic Online, Keith Fournier is a well-known politically liberal Catholic who unfortunately grabbed the name catholic.org a long time ago. He does not speak with any authority other than his own, and I’m not a bit surprised to see that he has his lips firmly attached to Huckabee’s backside. Fournier, like Huckabee, is a liberal, pro-life populist.
I left one liberally political minefield (the Episcopal church) for another (the Catholic church). At least, in my parish, politics are kept out of the Mass and the Church bulletin. I’ve noticed that Catholic Online forum is very slow; Fournier is probably trying to build up traffic. But, it’s a shame that the unwary might go there to try to learn about doctrine and other spiritual values of the Church.
I appreciate your post. I just think any allegation against a candidate should be well-founded. I do not care for the fact that Hucklebuck is a pastor, nor do I care for him or any other candidate campaigning in a church.
Church leaders should have the integrity to stay away from political endorsements. Obviously, Hagee has a problem with integrity in that regard and, based on what you read in his book, he teaches religious bigotry.
Sounds like the kiss of death rather than an endorsement.
I am also a convert to Catholicism. I’ve been a Catholic for many years and have been a member of five parishes in as many states. I have not found the church to be liberal. Like you, I notice that politics is left out of the mass other than discussions about the right to life and general exhortations to help the poor and downtrodden, the latter not necessarily through government. I find both of these moral teachings fully in keeping with the New Testament.
Like all churches, Catholicism has its share of liberal nutjobs and no shortage of moderates who blow in the political wind, but I do believe that the church overall does a better than average job of keeping politics out of the pulpit. And no one can call the last two Popes anything other than staunch conservatives.
This man would be a disaster on the international stage. He can’t discuss policy because everytime he tries he shoots himself in the foot. He has to wrap himself in religion, it’s all he’s got.
I live in the Los Angeles Archdiocese and that should help to explain the situation here. I was basing my assessment on the publication of the local church, THE TIDINGS. I can’t read it. But, no, I don’t think the radicals run the Church.
Pope Benedict XVI is revealing himself as more lovely and courageous with every pronouncement. No problem with the Popes, thank God...:)
“I live in the Los Angeles Archdiocese...”
That does explain the situation. When you have the opportunity to travel, check out other Catholic churches. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised, especially in flyover country.
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