skin that FPOS alive... then set his azz on fire!!!
Posted on 12/15/2007 1:27:01 AM PST by Westlander
(AP) -- Michael Vick declared, "I am not the bad person or beast I've been made out to be" and asked for leniency in a letter to the federal judge who sentenced him to 23 months in prison for a dogfighting conspiracy.
Vick wrote: "I was suffering from a deep state of depression, and after my father attacked me in the media, I was heartbroken. ... That's no excuse for using marijuana, but I didn't know how to cope with all the difficulties I was facing because it was all new to me."
(Excerpt) Read more at wtol.com ...
I was poor and became too rich overnight.. all that money made me do it..
The dogs begged too, he still killed them.
Frankly, while what Vick did wasn’t good, it’s hardly as bad as it’s been made out to be.
This event is nothing when compared to even one abortion. It is nothing when compared to a single roadside bomb that kills an Iraqi civilian or a US soldier.
I don’t muster a lot of wrath at Vick when that perspective is laid out.
The reason we have different punishments for different crimes is because we recognize that not all crimes are equal.
Cruelty to animals is a crime and cruelty to a human is also a crime, but since it is a worse crime, it is punished accordingly.
I agree with you. We have abortionists who are celebrated and revered, and this guy is going to federal prison for cruelty to animals.
It’s a travesty, but hey, just like in everything else, just follow the money. Untaxable gambling is a big no-no. To hell with the dogs, they don’t care, it’s all about money and power
I wonder how many “2nd chances” he got throughout H.S. and college that we never heard about?
Absolutely agree. On the scale of evil, neither marijuana use nor dog fighting rank much above a petty vice, IMHO. I do not recommend, approve, or condone, either activity. Nevertheless, I was surprised by the public (main stream media) reaction to Vick's case. Uncharacteristically they chose to go after a successful black athlete in ways that hindered his fair dealing with the legal process.
Society cannot even decide the classification of marijuana use. Many states decriminalize it while some legalize it under specific circumstances.
Society tolerated Dog fighting since colonial times and it has only recently been criminalized by all states.
Murder, rape, kidnapping, arson, and so forth are the crimes that deserve harsh sentences.
You imply that because SOME people think abortion is okay, that ALL people should have to turn a blind eye when they see cruelty to animals. That is not the right way to look at it. Since I am against abortion, and think it should be outlawed, then I have the moral right to also think that cruelty to animals should be punished.
Your argument only holds true for someone who is pro-abortion yet thinks that Vick should hang for what he did. A person with those views is a walking moral contradiction.
I am sure from the time he was young and playing pee wee football he was protected. I know the Falcons had a staff to smooth things over and babysit him.
Bubble Boy...
On the day of the sentencing I was talking to my boss. He at first thought the sentence was harsh. I explained to him, I am a dog lover, and I understand dogs are not humans and sometimes they need to be put down. But, imagine the kind of person who would outright torture an animal, for no reason. That speaks volumes about character and how deeply disturbed he truly is. After he thought about it, he agreed with me.
You have now done it.
Better put your flame suit on and cover your keyboard with a fire retardant material.
The animal lovers are foaming at the mouth and ready to burn him at the stack.
Any molecule of sympathy for Vick's plight is non-PC
BTW, Vick is a POS and deserves to be punished.
Vick begged for ‘second chance’....
tell it to the dogs!!!!
I taught in a school of choice that had an enrollment of about 95% kids from the inner city, and they routinely asked for a second chance each and every time they were caught, no matter what it was they did, no matter how many times they were caught doing it. It was automatic and reflexive. "Cain't I get a second chance?" Or, "You never gave us a chance", like they were always entitled to one free pass even though they knew they just did something wrong. I never ran into this in any other school district.
So true
I took over running a small warehouse with three employees. One is an inner city young black male.
Very nice guy, but has all the earmarks of a poor education, lack of "normal" social skills, poor work habits, lack of discipline, sloppy detail work.
Bear in mind, he is well liked by our customers and thinks he is doing a good job.
I have counseled him several times on his inability to take direction seriously.
Every time I write him up for the aforementioned problems, he always says he will do better and give him a second chance.
I think he will be extremely surprised when he gets terminated in the near future.
"You never gave us a chance", like they were always entitled to one free pass even though they knew they just did something wrong.
I'd be very surprised if he doesn't sue the company.
Just because society has 'tolerated' something doesn't mean it should be tolerated.
Society 'tolerated' slavery and Jim Crow as well.
Murder, rape, kidnapping, arson, and so forth are the crimes that deserve harsh sentences.
He got 23 months (less then the max of 5 years) because he lied about what he actually did and then on top of that he smoked pot (an illegal act) while out on bail.
Those other crimes do receive harsher sentences.
The biggest difference between serving time in the State and Federal prisons, is that in the Fed. prison you will actually serve most of your time.
That is something that should happen in State prisons as well.
There are a number of studies out there that document a strong tendency towards cruelty to animals among many murderers and other societal misfits. This is one of the reasons it should be treated seriously. Blowing it off as “not all that bad”, as some are doing in this thread, is inappropriate, as I’m sure you both agree.
skin that FPOS alive... then set his azz on fire!!!
I say we stop writing speeding tickets because drunk driving is much worse. But then again, drunk driving with no fatalities involved isn’t as bad as rape, so let’s stop punishing drunk drivers.
This has been the argument from the Vick supporters, and it just doesn’t wash. He operated a dog-fighting ring, personally tortured and killed dogs, and to top it all off, lied about it.
Many of his supporters (not on this board) would have you believe that the people that gathered at these blood-baths were innocent little homies just gettin’ together to shoot the shizzle and watch a couple of dog-fights. Much more was going on...
Excellent idea!
Funny how even the cruelest, most sadistic criminals are suddenly full of remorse AFTER they have been caught. Too bad there aren’t videos of Vick having a good time torturing dogs. He probably didn’t look at all depressed at the time.
I respectfully disagree. You miss my point, I am merely commenting on the disparagement of justice here, and in no way am saying it’s a-ok to treat any of God’s creatures cruelly. Again, my remarks were meant only to focus on the how and the why is it possible to be put into prison for this, when we as a society cavalierly disregard the holocaust going on around us. Not every individual mind you, but as a whole.
Hey, but that’s where we are and I just pray to our dear Lord to withhold His wrath from this country, because I think His protection is not long with us.
I believe in redemption. I believe in second chances. That doesn’t mean a second chance at superstardom, necessarily.
Vick will serve two years in federal prison, not counting whatever he will get on the state charges. He’ll come back as an over-30 QB with a few years out of the game. It’s not likely his second chance will be in the NFL.
But if he spends his time in prison reading, learning, to use an almost arcane phrase “bettering himself,” then he can find another path. He can steer young kids away from the “gangsta” lifestyle, teach them to avoid the dumb decisions he’s made. He can make a living at that. Not the millions he got from the NFL, but more money than me.
Thing is, second chances aren’t free. They ain’t cheap. They have to be earned. It’s not just a new approach, but a new life — you have to re-evaluate not just your strategy, but your goals.
Most convicts don’t. Many go straight because they don’t want to be back in there. Many mouth the right words and go right back to the same behavior that got them in as soon as they get out. But some do manage a real change. I’m hopeful, though not confident, that Vick will be one of those.
He’ll do his time. He’ll get out of jail. He’ll rejoin the Falcons. He’ll play in the league a few years and make millions of dollars. He’ll make millions less than he could have, but he will never be an average American with average net worth.
In that context, the sentence is nothing. It did not reduce his life level of net worth.
Think this means nothing? Ask him. Ask him if he’d trade 23 months in prison and go free, but know he will never play in the NFL again at NFL level salaries but rather spend his life talking in high schools about the evils of dog fighting (for $35,000 per year).
I guarantee you he will leap to do that 23 months of jail time. In two years he’ll be out and finishing up an NFL career as a multimillionaire.
Just like those dogs "begged" for a second chance.
But unlike those dogs, at least Vick is still breathing.
Well, not exactly.
Dogfighting was banned in Britain in the 19th century. IIRC even the Taliban banned dogfighting. And over here, it was criminalized in most states long before it became a felony in 48 of them.
...This cruel sport was legal in New York State until 1866, when Henry Bergh founded the ASPCA and got a law passed that made dogfighting—and all cruelty to animals—illegal.
I agree on pot-smoking -- it is an activity that harms only the "offender." Disagree on dog-fighting. I'm not a PETA member, I eat meat, and I don't condemn the hunting or slaughter of animals. But cruelty is cruelty.
Whether not not they have thoughts or souls, animals can feel pain. The intentional infliction of pain is not a mere vice; it is antisocial behavior. And when it is carried out on a large scale, it desensitizes its audience to pain, and at least some of those folks will inflict pain on other humans without remorse.
Society tolerated Dog fighting since colonial times and it has only recently been criminalized by all states.
Society tolerated slavery from colonial times, and it wasn't criminalized by all states for a couple of centuries. The fact that something is traditional does not make it right.
Murder, rape, kidnapping, arson, and so forth are the crimes that deserve harsh sentences.
I don't believe anyone is arguing for more gentle treatment of murderers, rapists and arsonists.
While watching the many anti Vick/animal rights protesters, I often wondered how many planned parenthood centers they passed to get to the protest location.
“’This event is nothing when compared to even one abortion...’
“The reason we have different punishments for different crimes is because we recognize that not all crimes are equal.”
Sadly, the “punishment” for the crime of performing abortion, in the United States, is a mid six-figure income.
sitetest
In response to your situation, I always encountered this at my school: before the students asked for a “second chance”, their pat response was always a very suprized and accussatorial “Wut ah do?” My best advise to you is to stand your ground at all times, because it is a game with them, literally. The motto the kids lived by, repeated all to often, at least the middle schoolers was “Lie, cheat, steal, win”. They lived it.
If this had been one dog and by accident it might be forgiven as a hasty impetual act, but this was lots of dogs over a long time. This establishes a pattern of behavior. The only thing Vick is sorry about is getting caught.
“Murder, rape, kidnapping, arson, and so forth are the crimes that deserve harsh sentences.”
Agreed, but I admit I was actually astonished and slightly pleased by the fact that I was still allowed to be morally outraged by anything.
People love their dogs and I’m betting that big mean animals in prison loves them, too. Tough break for Vick.
I have read where he will lose an estimated $150 million due to this conviction.
Some observers have made this out to be entirely about animal cruelty but that is not how I see it. Vick financed and ran an illegal gambling operation over an extended period of time. He conspired with others, violated numerous tax laws, etc. When he got caught he lied repeatedly to investigators and consumed illegal drugs while awaiting sentencing. For all of this he got 23 months. He should stop whining and so should his apologists.
Vick is a thug but he shouldn’t go to jail for what he did.
Pathetic.
I just hear too many people use the argument that what Vick did should be okay, because abortion is legal. The point is that they should both be illegal. Of course abortion is much worse than animal cruelty, but they both are abhorrent acts.
And groups of people actually protested in favor of Vick and cheered him publicly!
Could you clarify? Is it that Vick is above the law or the laws about dog fighting should not be enforced in general? Or is it that *anybody* who is out on bail and does drugs should get a pass?
Maybe it’s my libertarian views, but I do not thinl it is the government’s business to interfere in the affairs happening on Vick’s estate. Gambling, killing dogs, and smoking pot on the estate is hardly the worse things happening. I think that the government has better things to do than get involved in this case.
Vick is a lowlife, but dogs are only animals.
Meanwhile we let abortionists slaughter little babies legally.
Our culture is sick...
He’d have gotten Micheal off scott free.
Tough punishments for this sort of crime are necessary because they are such a sure-fire diagnostic for dangerous sociopathy.
People function in civilized society because 1)they have learned self-control or 2)they fear punishment. In the case of sociopaths, the former has broken down, and the latter needs to be correspondingly reinforced.
This guy had the ability to use all that money to help others who have been in trouble - what did he do? He blew his money on betting and killing dogs and the friends that were around him were losers of the worst kind...My dad always said you know alot about someone by 3 things: 1) their speech (the more profanity that comes out, the less positive of a human being there is inside), 2) their actions and 3) who they hang out with/friends...looks like 3 strikes to me in Vick’s case!
Exactly.
No, a room filled with angry pit bulls.
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