Islamic skullcap.
Posted on 12/10/2007 2:24:21 PM PST by tcrlaf
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — The deadly shooting sprees at a megachurch and a missionary training school were believed to have been carried out by the same person — a 24-year-old suburban Denver man who "hated Christians," a law enforcement official told The Associated Press.
The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation, identified the gunman as Matthew Murray, the son of a neurologist who is a prominent researcher on multiple sclerosis.
Five people — including a gunman — were killed, and five others wounded Sunday in the two eruptions of violence 12 hours and 65 miles apart.
The first attack took place at a youth missionary training center in the Denver suburb of Arvata; the other happened at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, where the gunman was shot and killed by a security guard.
The law enforcement official said Murray was believed to be the gunman in both attacks. Murray did not appear to have a criminal history but "hated Christians," the official said. The official did not know Murray's religion, if any.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE.
(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...
Wonder what his DU screen name was.
Yup. My thoughts exactly.
In other words, he converted to Islam at his university in OK. The beard and the skullcap could only mean that.
Recent convert to TROP?
Continued prayers for all the families involved.
Either that or he was an atheist - the media wouldn’t want to play up that either. And if he was into an atheistic goth type movement there is no accounting for what weird ways that he could be dressed.
Maybe he became a Hasidic Jew ;)
Killing a bunch of Christians because you don’t like them, does that constitute a “hate crime?” Probably not.
That is strange. Reportedly, the family was quite devoutly Christian. If that’s true, I wonder what caused his rebellion? Speaking anecdotally, one of the biggest causes of rebellion in Christian children is legalism.
Lib remark from another board:
“You are so full of @#$%. So is the “anonymous official” that was quoted. just another jesus freak stirring up lies.
No where else is this being reported except for this one AP thread.”
They are in denial that this could likely be one of thiers..
Only if they're Episcopalian Bishops.
Thank you Captain Obvious for this headline...
People who grew up in the church and then reject it often become the very nastiest opponents of Christianity.
Not suprising, because more Christians are going to be attacked even in this country violently.
The Chassidim are too busy disputing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin (while their wives work in a Forman’s to support them!).
I doubt that he was a goth, because the beard and skullcap are not goth garb. I suspect he was a slightly unhinged type who probably felt rejected by somebody in the Christian group (probably a girl that he had made a pass at), went away, studied Islam in OK, and then came home with a perfect rationale for his insanity.
Ummmm. Ever heard of Orthodox Judaism or any of a hundred other religious groups that habitually adopt this type of attire? And a "skullcap" isn't something I associate with Muslims. Turbins, yes, but skullcaps? What Muslim sect does that? It could certainly be that he's a Muslim, but his attire could mean any of a lot of other things, not anywhere near all of them having to do with any religion he might practice.
Also, I had heard about a stocking or knit cap in the description of the shooter in the first incident and a helmet and perhaps body armor in the second, not a skullcap. Has that been specifically reported anywhere?
I wouldn’t go far with the “hating christians” remark until it’s confirmed later. It seems to much like a cliche.
My guess was either Muslim or atheist. I was leaning toward the second.
Apparently the kid was homeschooled, and his brother went to a “religious” school, whatever that means. But it could be that he rebelled against Christian teaching that his father tried to give him.
All of this is still conjectural.
I can think of at least 5 Freeper screenames who could fit the bill.
sounds like a kid that hated his upbringing
Remember how quickly the media dropped the “Gay Trenchcoat Mafia” association to Columbine?
Yep, they kept going with the idea that they were out to kill minority athletes (1 was shot) and nothing said about targeting Evangelical Christians (7 shot, I believe).
Particularly when the attacks take place at a Christian church, and on Sunday, no less. What a coincidence.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
(Now, if someone were saying this about the mall shooting your comment would be right on)
Interesting. I was virtually certain he would have that attitude and that it would surface in the investigation from the beginning.
You are still doubting the obvious, imho.
Fascinating.
The one thing I’m hoping will surface is whether he was a homosexual or not . . . or that there was some other reason for him to be so intensely at odds with Christianity.
Sorry to hear about the homeschooling background. I have met homeschooled rebels but never anyone who rebelled that dramatically. Still when people are given a lot of truth and then reject it they often become much harder and more bitter than those who had less truth to begin with.
More a son of privelege that had dropped out or been rejected by the missionary program from what I read.
One story has this:
“The common denominator with both locations of (the shootings), is a church based group called ‘Youth With A Mission’ (Y-WAM),” Colorado Springs Detective Bradley Pratt wrote Sunday in a statement supporting of search warrant for Murray’s family home in Arapahoe County.He was the son of a neuro-surgeon according to this Rocky Mountain News Story“It appears that the suspect had been kicked out of that program approximately three years prior, and during the past few weeks, had sent different forms of hate mail to the program, and/or its director,” Pratt wrote.
Murray’s expulsion from the school was confirmed by Cheryl Morrison, whose husband, George Morrison, is pastor of the Faith Bible Chapel adjacent to Y-WAM Arvada. She didn’t know specifics of the conflict.
“I don’t think that ‘run-in’ is the word, but they did have to dismiss him,” Cheryl Morrison said. “It had to be something of significance, because they go the nth degree with people.”
“sounds like a kid that hated his upbringing”
True, but why wouldn’t he have taken it out on his parents. Why wouldn’t he just off himself off. Instead he attacked the missionary school where apparently he might have “worked for” but not “belong to” where they wouldn’t let him stay the night then he went towards the mega church.
And to think, he could have gone away and grown up instead.
Islamic skullcap.
yeah because Matthew Murray is just such a Jewish name...
I am more interested in where he got his IED materials and the “body armour” and helmet. Were they real or fakes?
“If that’s true, I wonder what caused his rebellion?”
How about...he was mentally ill.
Er, Orthodox Jews don’t kill people.
The skullcap is typically Muslim, although in the US it seems to be worn most heavily by Muslim converts. I don’t know where you live, but if you’ve ever lived in a big city, you’d know that every black jailhouse Muslim convert is out there with his skullcap, and an increasing number of disaffected whites wear them, too.
There is a Dr. Murray (T. Jock Murray) that is a famous MS neuro...but I thought I read earlier that the father's first name was Roger. And I don't think T. Jock Murray is from Colorado. Wonder if somebody has their info mixed up. Time will tell.
Probably something personal. And the black trenchcoat may just indicate that he is another troubled kid that hates the world and identified with columbine. Certainly seems odd for a homeschooled kid.
Ok, this is a complete guess but if what you posted turns out to be correct it makes sense. He probably was one of the homeschool rebel types whose parents sent him to Y-WAM with hopes of him having a life of Christian Service. While there he probably violated the rules - sex or alcohol use would be likely candidates. Then when he was caught breaking the rules and was expelled he probably got in serious trouble with his folks and completely rejected his Christian Upbringing all the time blaiming Y-WAM and its legalism for all the problems that he had brought into his life. This is a complete guess but it does make sense to me since I graduated from a conservative Christian College where I saw some homeschooled rebels get expelled for violating the rules and get very bitter about it. Though I don’t think that any of them would be capable of anything like this.
yep
In such cases (many? most?), I would place much blame on the church. I say this from my experience in various churches...and as a continued devout Biblical believer.
Possibly - I would probably put more blame on the families. People know the rules when they go to an institution and they don’t have to go there if they don’t want to follow them.
I agree. One of the problems with our society is that we never make “being grown up” a big brownie point.
We are into the victim culture, and therefore every disaffected nutbag thinks he’s a victim and entitled to do whatever he wants. It would be lovely if we would put “grow up” at the center of our aspirations for young people.
Vet lauds female guard who felled gunman. Arvada and Colorado Springs police will hold a joint press conference at 4 p.m. about the church-related shooting rampages Sunday in each town as authorities confirmed that a single gunman "who hated Christians" was responsible for both.
A law-enforcement official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to publicly discuss the investigation, told The Associated Press that 24-year-old Matthew Murray of Arapahoe County was the lone gunman who killed four people and wounded five others on two church campuses before he was killed.
Youth With a Mission was the first place he attacked. The mega-church had a satellite operation of YWM.
“The beard and the skullcap”
Seriously?
That sews it up IMO.
There was one photo of the kid from Univ Of OK who blew his own head off with a homebrew bomb outside the stadium about two years ago.
The single photo said it all: native American Caucasian with skullcap and whispy Satan beard.
They are called Christianity rejects. And I agree with tcrlaf that legalism has much to do with with creating these monsters. On the other hand, you have the view that moral laws are not binding. It's difficult for a large church to keep a balance between the two on a practical level.
Sadly, I believe legalism tends to win out for expediencies sake in a mega church situation and an individual can become isolated quickly.
LOL! I thought about that scene too!
Denver TV will provide a streaming link at 4PM MST for the press conference.
Sounds like a kid that was mad at God to me!
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