Social conservatives fracture as Robertson endorses Giuliani

McClatchy Washington Bureau ^ | November 7, 2007 | Matt Stearns

[Graybeard58]

WASHINGTON — Televangelist Pat Robertson endorsed Rudy Giuliani's campaign Wednesday, a surprising embrace that underscored the divisions among Christian conservatives about the field of candidates for the Republican presidential nomination.

By itself, Robertson's support of the former New York mayor was an unusual partnership between a Christian conservative who once blamed the 2001 terrorist attacks on American sins such as abortion and a social liberal who supports abortion rights and gay rights.

But coming the same day that another prominent Christian conservative — Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas — endorsed Sen. John McCain of Arizona, and two days after influential conservative Paul Weyrich endorsed former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, it was a fresh sign that one of the most influential blocs of voters in the party remains splintered.

That's good news for Giuliani, and far more important than the largely symbolic value of support from a TV preacher. It suggests that Christian conservatives aren't ready to coalesce behind any single candidate, thus they're unable to stop Giuliani from winning the nomination. Yet the competing endorsements could raise the profile of social issues such as abortion at the very time that Giuliani is working to keep primary voters focused instead on the threat of terrorism and the promise of tax cuts.

"In the short term, it helps Giuliani if he can get his small share of the Christian conservative vote while the rest are splintered among all the other candidates," said Greg Mueller, a Republican strategist with close ties to social conservatives.

"But all these endorsements also are going to elevate the cultural issues more, which will energize the base of the party. It may put a target on his back for rivals to raise the cultural issues in coming debates."

Like many Christian conservatives who support Giuliani, Robertson suggested Wednesday that other issues such as fighting terrorism, cutting taxes or reducing crime trump social issues.

"Rudy Giuliani took a city that was in decline and considered ungovernable and reduced its violent crime, revitalized its core, dramatically lowered its taxes, cut through a welter of bureaucratic regulations, and did so in the spirit of bipartisanship, which is so urgently needed in Washington today," Robertson said.

Yet Giuliani's support of abortion rights and gay rights — not to mention his three marriages — make him suspect to many social conservatives.

Other candidates embrace the social conservative agenda but haven't managed to unify support. Why the split? Largely because each of the top-tier candidates has at least some flaw in the eyes of conservatives.

Brownback, who ran briefly for the nomination himself, said Wednesday that McCain had "a consistent 24-year pro-life record of protecting the rights of the unborn" and called him the only candidate who could "lead our party to victory in 2008 while keeping faith with our most cherished values: life, faith and family."

But McCain once criticized Robertson and the late Rev. Jerry Falwell as intolerant, and many social conservatives describe him as an unreliable ally prone to bucking his own party.

Romney drew the backing Monday of Weyrich, a founder of the Christian conservative movement in the late 1970s. But Romney previously supported abortion rights and championed gay rights in a 1994 Senate campaign.

The Republican candidate who may seem the best fit for social conservatives could be former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, a Baptist minister with a long record of support for social conservative causes. Yet Mueller noted that many social conservatives think he can't win.

"Some people have become more process-focused than they are principle-focused," Huckabee said Wednesday in Cedar Falls, Iowa. "It's pretty disheartening to see that it's not necessarily based on people saying, `Gosh, these guys have the right principles.' "

Judging from responses from several self-described Christian conservatives at the Huckabee event, the three endorsements may not be all that valuable.

"That probably takes Pat Robertson down more than it would take Rudy up," Glenda Gehrke, 63, of Evansdale, said of Robertson's endorsement of Giuliani.

As for Weyrich's endorsement of Romney: Nobody in Cedar Falls who was asked knew who Weyrich is.

[Man50D]

Anyone who endorses Giuliani is not a conservative.

[Dreagon]

These people do NOT understand social conservative. We don’t follow preachers like lemmings, no matter how much they like to believe we do. They are buying into their own narrative.
This isn’t going to get a lot more social conservatives to suddenly change their mind on Guiliani.

[Wage Slave]

I would like to see a CT scan of Robertson’s brain. I think he may have dementia.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I heard Glenn Beck say on his radio show today that he is giving an hour of TV time to Duncan Hunter. I couldn’t hear clearly whether he was referring to tonight or tomorrow night, though...station was fading in and out.

[pissant]

Brownback is a ‘prominent’ Christian conservative? I don’t think so.

[CounterCounterCulture]

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? - Mark 8:36 (King James Version)

[Califreak]

Supposed to be tomorrow-set the TIVO.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1922778/posts

[alicewonders]

There's so many things I disagree with in this article, I don't even know where to begin.

But I do like this lady's take on things:

"That probably takes Pat Robertson down more than it would take Rudy up," Glenda Gehrke, 63, of Evansdale, said of Robertson's endorsement of Giuliani.

[esarlls3]

Brownback is a ‘prominent’ Christian conservative? I don’t think so.

Are you sure? The press release from McCain said he was. </s>

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

To say we fractured is to assume we were one to begin with. Rudy won one guy over to his team. So what! Rebertson will be with us on other stuff.

[Dante3]

You beat me to it. Rudy is not a conservative, and he would not be the first choice of any conservatives.

[pissant]

So prominent that he regularly got less than 2% of the vote in FR polling. LOL

[Mariner]

I'm a conservative, on defense, property rights, economic issues, the judiciary and the Constitution.

I could easily vote for Rudy in the general election if he is the GOP nominee.

Of course, I would NOT support a constitutional amendment against abortion any more than I would support a constitutional amendment against murder or armed robbery. I also think the feds have no business in the marriage business.

I think I'm a pretty typical Republican...at least 80% of the party.

Can the party win without socons? I think we're fixin' to see. My guess is that yes, the GOP can win without socons.

Of course I'd rather we didn't have to.

[LiteKeeper]

I wonder why the press continues to call him a televangelist. He hasn’t preached anything but politics in years.

[LibLieSlayer]

I ain’t fractured nuthin’... I was agin’ both before the endorsement... and I’m agin’ both now.

LLS

[LibLieSlayer]

A verse to be heeded.

LLS

[Enterprise]

It’s from the McClatchy’s. Bunch of ****heads.

[taxed2death]

“Televangelist Pat Robertson endorsed Rudy Giuliani’s campaign Wednesday, a surprising embrace that underscored the divisions among Christian conservatives about the field of candidates for the Republican presidential nomination.”

If you’re a Christian Conservative, you won’t vote for Rudy.

If you follow Pat Robertson (endorsing Juliani) like a mindless moron then you can’t possible be a Conservative Christian.

[Man50D]

I could easily vote for Rudy in the general election if he is the GOP nominee.

Voting for Giuliani would be tantamount to voting for the socialist Democrat nominee since he is as much a socialist as the them.

[Integrityrocks]

Oh I couldn’t agree more with that statement. My first thought was no big deal for Rudy, but BIG deal for a loss of confidence in Robertson.

[Hornitos]

Anyone who endorses Giuliani is not a conservative.

I am a social conservative, and will support whichever GOP standard-bearer emerges, because to do otherwise is to hand the nation over to MoveOn.org, Code Pink, and George Soros.

[Man50D]

I am a social conservative, and will support whichever GOP standard-bearer emerges,

A socialist is a socialist regardless of party affiliation.

[Maynerd]

I would like to see a CT scan of Robertson’s brain. I think he may have dementia. . . .

"Rudy Giuliani took a city that was in decline and considered ungovernable and reduced its violent crime, revitalized its core, dramatically lowered its taxes, cut through a welter of bureaucratic regulations, and did so in the spirit of bipartisanship, which is so urgently needed in Washington today," Robertson said

I don't like Pat Robertson and I think Giuliani is an odd duck but Giuliani accomplished more good in NYC than the rest of the republican candidates combined political careers. Many freepers are blinded by their sincere social beliefs and refuse to give Giuliani credit for the NYC turnaround.

Robertson and many social conservatives (myself included) view the battle between radical Islam and western civilization as the core struggle of our time. But don't worry, if the islamists win they'll ban abortion and gay marriage and a few other things too.

[Mariner]

He is not a socialist, and you betray your ignorance of economics by asserting such.

I challenge you to cite evidence to support your contention.

That said, he is clearly a social liberal. As such he is hated by socons to a degree I haven't seen since the Clinton years.

I'd like to see another nominee (Fred?) if for no other reason than to keep this party intact...

However, I'd not support a statist on the cultural front from either the left or the right.

[Hornitos]

A socialist is a socialist regardless of party affiliation.

So Rudy would appoint the same justices as Hillary would? Code Pink would have a hotline into the Oval Office under Rudy? I don't think so.

[SoConPubbie]

"Can the party win without socons? I think we're fixin' to see. My guess is that yes, the GOP can win without socons."

You and the rest of the GOP establishment who think they can get along without their base are in for a rude awakening if you nominate Rudy!.

Either there will be a third-party, or you will hand the presidency to Hillary, or possibly both.

Great idea to kick dirt in the face of the largest group of your party who actually put you in power.

[Hornitos]

... but Giuliani accomplished more good in NYC than the rest of the republican candidates combined political careers. Many freepers are blinded by their sincere social beliefs and refuse to give Giuliani credit for the NYC turnaround.

Robertson and many social conservatives (myself included) view the battle between radical Islam and western civilization as the core struggle of our time. But don't worry, if the islamists win they'll ban abortion and gay marriage and a few other things too.

Well said.

[DocH]

"That probably takes Pat Robertson down more than it would take Rudy up," Glenda Gehrke, 63, of Evansdale, said of Robertson's endorsement of Giuliani.

I agree with you on the lady's quote above.

It's kind of like mixing vanilla ice cream and sh*t.

The ice cream don't hurt the sh*t, but the sh*t sure plays HELL with the ice cream.

Liberal RINO-rudy is SH*T.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

I am a social conservative, and will support whichever GOP standard-bearer emerges, because to do otherwise is to hand the nation over to MoveOn.org, Code Pink, and George Soros.

You ain't a conservative, much less a social one, if you support POS pro-abortionist Rudy.

Rudy's nominated = 3rd party

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

....but Giuliani accomplished more good in NYC than the rest of the republican candidates combined political careers. Many freepers are blinded by their sincere social beliefs and refuse to give Giuliani credit for the NYC turnaround.

Actually conservatives have always appreciated the job Rudy did in NYC. His authoritarian views & moderate fiscal policies were badly needed in a city that was going under from liberal Dinkins.

But the rest of American isn't NYC. Either Rudy should have ran for Governor or for Senate last year. He has no business running for President.

[alicewonders]

If I’m correct - when Republicans win elections - it’s with the support of the social conservatives. It’s when they abandon them, that they lose.

[Maynerd]

You and the rest of the GOP establishment who think they can get along without their base are in for a rude awakening if you nominate Rudy!.

The voters in the primary will determine the republican nominee, not the "establishment."

In the general election I will vote for the republican nominee regardless. Even Ron Paul would be better than Hillary, Obama, or Edwards. Thankfully RP is politically RIP.

For the primary I will vote for the conservative who can win.

[Mariner]

Socons are not the largest group in the GOP. They are a clear minority.

Would everyone benefit if socons stayed onboard? No doubt about it.

I'm just predicting an outcome not advocating one. I believe the GOP will nominate Rudy and I believe Rudy will win.

IF that's true (big if), where will that leave the socons?

I think it's a pretty big bet that all parties are placing right now...the only question remaining is who will win.

[ElPatriota]

I would to hate to insult anyone on 'my side.' but Pat Robertson is demonstrating he is MAJOY LEAGUE DUMB A**.

As one ex-catholic let down by my CC (we all know how), I can understand if some of their members feel a bit defensive about what I am saying.

For the life of me, how can any RELIGIOUS / MORALITY ISSUES person, of any kind support this enemy of of these very principles? as Julie Annie?.. I will NEVER understand.

[Wage Slave]

I agree that Giuliani did a good job in New York.

And I agree that we are in a battle for the survival of western civilization. We need to defeat the Islamists, but we also need to defeat the enemies within that are destroying our country. How can we light the way for the world if we are rotting from within? Guiliani is too cozy with the rotters for my taste.

Duncan Hunter is the obvious choice. I will, however, vote for Guiliani as the lesser of two evils if necessary.

[Maynerd]

Duncan Hunter is the obvious choice. I will, however, vote for Guiliani as the lesser of two evils if necessary.

I agree that Giuliani is suboptimal (to put it mildly). But I will not hestitate to vote for him or even McCain (whom I previously swore I would never vote for) over the despicable democrats.

[Caramelgal]

Of course, I would NOT support a constitutional amendment against abortion any more than I would support a constitutional amendment against murder or armed robbery. I also think the feds have no business in the marriage business.

I am very much against abortion but I think it, like the definition of marriage, belongs to the States to decide. Remember that abortion was made “legal” by a Supreme Court decision contrary to the wishes of the people in many States. I don’t want to see us (Liberals or Democrats) tinkering with our Constitution in order to overturn the actions of “activist jurists”, whether those jurists are pinheaded liberals or well meaning social conservatives.

As I am also conservative, on defense, property rights, economic issues, the judiciary and the Constitution, the candidate I intend to support is the one who best understands the strict interpretation of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and is committed to upholding them and will nominate like minded judges. I don’t want any “social activists” – period.

That said I could never support Giuliani, but more because of his stance on the Second Amendment, a right clearly defined and enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

If it comes down to Hillary vs. Giuliani, I’m not sure what I would do. I would definitely not vote for Hillary and I would have to hold my nose very hard in order to vote for Giuliani.

[WOSG]

Iowa Christian Alliance President Cautions Iowa Conservatives

On the Day of Rudy Giuliani’s Endorsement by Pat Robertson

Contact:: President, Steve Scheffler (515) 971-7363

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, DES MOINES, IOWA, November 7, 2007

Iowa Conservatives: Don’t Fall for Rudy

STATEMENT BY STEVE SCHEFFLER:

“We’re not going to beat Hillary Clinton with someone who has a record of agreement with her on abortion, gay marriage, illegal immigration and many other issues important to Iowa conservatives.

Some conservatives seem willing to look past Giuliani’s liberal record because he appears strongest in national polls against Hillary Clinton. The truth is, the national election is still months away. Iowans should nominate a candidate who can draw a contrast with Hillary, not someone who shares her New York values. In fact, recent polls point to Giuliani’s slippage against Hillary Clinton on the national scene and are evidence that the “electability” argument doesn’t hold water.

Social conservatives such as Pat Robertson who back pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage candidates do a disservice to the conservative movement. At the end of the day, we have to stand for something, or our movement has no purpose.”

http://iowansforromney.blogspot.com/2007/11/iowa-christian-alliance-president-slams.html

[Advil000]

Pat Robertson does not represent anywhere near all conservative Christrians. I am one, and Giuliani is not the man I would vote for. My man in the primaries is Fred Thompson.

In my social circle of Christian friends I don’t know any who use Pat Robertson as a gide in their political lives. The man frankly needs to be silent, sit down and stop trying to test his political power. We need to rally around a candidate, and Rudy is not the man I’ll be voting for in the primaries even though I will hold my nose and vote for him in the generals if it comes down to that.

[ladyinred]

This is ONE man. What is the big deal?

[penowa]

"Code Pink would have a hotline into the Oval Office under Rudy?"

No, Code Pink would have to call the special NARAL hotline to the oval office, or ask Soros to call his sock puppet.

[ladyinred]

Me too!

[roses of sharon]

Ditto, not to mention slapping our soldiers in two war theaters with the Clintons as CICs’.

No way.

[nyyankeefan]

Rudy’s nominated = 3rd party

3rd party = the piaps wins the white house!!!!

[pray4liberty]

WASHINGTON — Televangelist Pat Robertson endorsed Rudy Giuliani's campaign Wednesday, a surprising embrace that underscored the divisions among Christian conservatives about the field of candidates for the Republican presidential nomination.

Time for Pat to retire before he takes CBN down with him in flames.

[WOSG]

“Either Rudy should have ran for Governor or for Senate last year. He has no business running for President.”

I agree, and it annoys me no end when perfectly good senate candidates pursue a presidential pipedream they are not ready for. (Mike Huckabee, please pick up the courtesy phone; paging Mike Huckabee).

[Man50D]

He is not a socialist, and you betray your ignorance of economics by asserting such.

He is a socialist. Your refusal to accept such an obvious fact is a betrayal of conservative principles. That is assuming you ever considered yourself a conservative.

I challenge you to cite evidence to support your contention.

Some comments by Giuliani:

--On President Bill Clinton: Shortly before his last-minute endorsement of Bob Dole in the 1996 presidential election, Giuliani told the Post's Jack Newfield that "most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine." Rudy! An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani, Wayne Barrett.

--The Daily News quoted Giuliani as saying March 1996: "Whether you talk about President Clinon, Senator Dole.... The country would be in very good hands in the hands of any of that group." An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani, Wayne Barrett.

Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it. Rudy Giuliani

Below is a list comparing positions Of Giuliani and socialist Clinton.

Giuliani/Clinton/Dem vs. GOP Platform Comparison
Issue	Giuliani	Clinton	Dem Platform	GOP Platform
Abortion on Demand	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Partial Birth Abortion	Supports Opposed NY ban	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Roe v. Wade	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Taxpayer Funded Abortions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Embryonic Stem Cell Research	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Federal Marriage Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Defined at state level	Supports
Gay Domestic Partnership/ Civil Unions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Openly Gay Military	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Defense of Marriage Act	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Amnesty for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Special Path to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Tough Penalties for Employers of Illegal Aliens	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Sanctuary Cities/ Ignoring Immigration Law	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Protecting 2nd Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Supports bans	Supports
Confiscating Guns	Supports Confiscated as mayor. Even bragged.	Supports	Supports Supports bans	Opposes
'Assault' Weapons Ban	Supports	Supports	Supports
Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers	Supports Filed One Himself	Supports		Opposes
Gun Registration/Licenses	Supports	Supports		Opposes
War in Afghanistan	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports	Supports
War in Iraq	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports Weak support	Supports
Patriot Act	Supports	Supports Voted for it 2001 & 2006	Opposes	Supports

Giuliani/Clinton/Dem vs. GOP Platform Comparison
Issue	Giuliani	Clinton	Dem Platform	GOP Platform
Abortion on Demand	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Partial Birth Abortion	Supports Opposed NY ban	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Roe v. Wade	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Taxpayer Funded Abortions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Embryonic Stem Cell Research	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Federal Marriage Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Defined at state level	Supports
Gay Domestic Partnership/ Civil Unions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Openly Gay Military	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Defense of Marriage Act	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Amnesty for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Special Path to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Tough Penalties for Employers of Illegal Aliens	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Sanctuary Cities/ Ignoring Immigration Law	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Protecting 2nd Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Supports bans	Supports
Confiscating Guns	Supports Confiscated as mayor. Even bragged.	Supports	Supports Supports bans	Opposes
'Assault' Weapons Ban	Supports	Supports	Supports
Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers	Supports Filed One Himself	Supports		Opposes
Gun Registration/Licenses	Supports	Supports		Opposes
War in Afghanistan	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports	Supports
War in Iraq	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports Weak support	Supports
Patriot Act	Supports	Supports Voted for it 2001 & 2006	Opposes	Supports

[Antoninus]

Robertson's endorsement means absolutely nothing to me.

Wait, I take that back. It means that he's not the social conservative everyone thinks he is.

Boy, a lot of phonies and frauds are getting exposed this election season. First Yawn Vanity, now Robertson.

[Man50D]

So Rudy would appoint the same justices as Hillary would? Code Pink would have a hotline into the Oval Office under Rudy? I don't think so.

Think again. Below is Rudy's history on Judicial appointments.

A Politico review of the 75 judges Giuliani appointed to three of New York state's lower courts found that Democrats outnumbered Republicans by more than 8 to 1. One of his appointments was an officer of the International Association of Lesbian and Gay Judges. Another ruled that the state law banning liquor sales on Sundays was unconstitutional because it was insufficiently secular. A third, an abortion-rights supporter, later made it to the federal bench in part because New York Sen. Charles E. Schumer, a liberal Democrat, said he liked her ideology. Cumulatively, Giuilani's record was enough to win applause from people like Kelli Conlin, the head of NARAL Pro-Choice New York, the state's leading abortion-rights group. "They were decent, moderate people," she said.

Source: Ben Smith, The Politico, 3/1/07.


Another judge, appointed by Giuliani to the criminal bench in 1996, Dora Irizarry, has called herself pro-choice and was later elevated to the federal bench with strong support from Democratic Sens. Charles E. Schumer and Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

A family court judge reappointed by Giuliani, Sheldon Rand, was excoriated on the conservative-leaning New York Post editorial page last week for ruling that city funds be used to pay for a sex-change operation for an indigent New York resident.

And a fourth judge, Paula J. Hepner, appointed initially by Dinkins in 1995, issued a ruling that allowed a lesbian to adopt her partner's child. Four years later, Giuliani reappointed Hepner to New York's family court bench. Hepner was subsequently married to another woman in a ceremony in Canada.

Source: Tom Hamburger and Adam Schreck, Los Angeles Times, 3/12/07

Code Pink would have a hotline into Giuliani's bedroom.

[Antoninus]

Socons are not the largest group in the GOP. They are a clear minority.

But they are by far the most active. They're the people who stand out in the rain handing out flyers--like they did here in NJ to defeat the embryonic stem cell bill. They're the people who go door-to-door handing out voter-guides. They're the people who make the phone calls, put up the lawn signs, talk to their friends and family about their candidates, and brave any sort of weather to get to the polls.

If you want to see just how bad the GOP can lose a national election, go ahead, nominate Giuliani. You'll send the majority of those active religious people directly into the arms of a 3rd party.

The liberal media has figured this out. That's why it's all Rudy all the time for them. They want a fractured GOP so bad they can taste it.