Posted on 11/07/2007 7:54:06 AM PST by BGHater
TAIPEI, Taiwan -- Taiwan has shipped one billion rifle bullets to the United States for NT$560 million in a rare arms sale to the United States, it was reported yesterday.
The 5.56 mm bullets are mainly used to replenish supplies which have run low after wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Taipei-based China Times reported, citing a military source.
Taiwan's defence ministry last year beat off competition from the likes of Singapore and South Korea to win the five-year contract from a U.S. military subcontractor, it was reported.
In a separate deal, the China Times said the Taiwanese Army plans to purchase 60 UH-60M Black Hawk transport helicopters from Washington for NT$71.7 billion.
The US is the leading arms supplier to Taiwan -- something China objects to -- with Beijing regarding the island as part of its territory awaiting reunification, by force if necessary.
Taiwan has been seeking more advanced weaponry amid China's repeated threats to invade.
Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian last week accused China of provoking the island by targeting it with nearly 1,000 missiles.
Tensions between Taipei and Beijing escalated since the independence leaning leader was elected president in 2000. He was narrowly re-elected in 2004.
With any luck this will depress the cost of 5.56 ammo. 35-50 cents a round now!
What grain wt? What quality? How does it group?
Anyone use this stuff?
Prayers that at least 10 million of these find a worthy home in the bodies of Islamic terrorists.
Jacketed military bullets.
I’m confused. Aren’t bullets made of steel? Wouldn’t this fall under the Berry Amendment?
I don’t like to buy anything made outside the USA, which is getting harder and harder to do.
Why would I use bullets made who knows where to protect myself and my property???
A billion bullets here, a billion bullets there, and pretty soon you’re talking real bang bang.
If you can get primers, powder, and cases, I suggest stocking up now.
Looks like America can have guns and butter - both of them imported.
Remember the “Arsenal of Democracy”?
Amen!
Sad, we can not even make our own bullets anymore.
Looks like we better get used to pricey ammo for some time to come and try to stock up when you can get a decent deal.
Lead with a copper jacket and a brass cartridge.
Why not the whole lot?
The U.S. military will be using them. I think if you get your hands on any of those rounds you can feel secure in using them.
I didn’t see lead in the story. How do you know these are made of lead? Do you know what company it is?
Well, I don’t KNOW they’re made of lead.
I’m just saying that lead is what is almost always used. And where lead is banned for bullet manufacture, they use an alloy of bismuth, of all things.
I’m working from memory here, but I’m fairly certain of this.
Lead and copper are relatively soft, and won’t eat up the rifling carved inside the barrel.
It's a lousy round against personnel, especially coming out of 16" barrels or less.
I doubt much if any of this will be making its way into the hands of civilians.
But bullets are also made with steel. We don’t know if these are hollowed, lead or jacketed. Since you volunteered info, I thought you knew what company it was.
A year or so ago, Wolf was $200 per 1k. Lake city is, ugh..
I was speaking generally, not specifically. Sorry for the confusion.
So this would be subject to the Berry Amendment. Which is probably why this company won this contract from a U.S. military subcontractor and not directly from the DOD.
np
You usually know stuff which is why I followed up with you.
Bullets are not made of steel (unless you have some alloy harder than steel for your gun barrel).
These bullets would have been manufactured to mil-spec and full copper metal jacket would have been called for.
Are you saying post 22 is not correct?
Taiwan is an ally. It’s doubtful their quality would be intentionally questionable when they also rely upon US hardware as their primary defense.
5.56mm SS-109 ammunition (NATO green-tip) has a steel core and penetrator surrounded by a lead slug and jacketed in copper. They’re real good for punching through cheap body armor, engine blocks, or bone.
No, I am saying the bullets have to be made to mil-spec. So the quality of the round should not be in question.
I am also saying from a simple understanding of guns and ballistics, you cant have the alloy making contact with the barrel be harder than the barrel, unless you want to replace the barrel faster than the bullets.
There are many “specialty” rounds that do many different things, and if the military has contracted a high penetration round with a steel tip or other feature that does not contact the barrel when fired, then thats what they did. In general that doesn’t make it a ‘steel’ bullet.
DEALER NET SHIPPING TOTAL NOTES WEB SITE
---------------- ------- ------ ------- ---------------- --------------
Ammoman $339.00 $00.00 $339.00 OUT OF STOCK Ammoman
Ammunition To Go 399.95 17.90 417.85 OUT OF STOCK Ammunition To Go
Cheaper Than Dirt 398.50 18.59 417.09 OUT OF STOCK Cheaper Than Dirt
Collector Rifle 309.90 17.20 327.10 OUT OF STOCK Collector Rifle
Natchez 424.50 20.72 445.22 OUT OF STOCK Natchez
Outdoor Marksman 364.50 20.41 384.91 OUT OF STOCK Outdoor Marksman
Sportsman's Guide 299.97 16.99 316.96 OUT OF STOCK Sportsman's Guide
Widener's 295.00 16.25 311.25 OUT OF STOCK Widener's
DEALER NET SHIPPING TOTAL NOTES WEB SITE
---------------- ------- ------ ------- ---------------- --------------
AIM Surplus $325.00 $13.00 $338.00 AIM Surplus
Ammoman 299.00 $00.00 299.00 OUT OF STOCK Ammoman
Armory 229.99 17.00 246.99 OUT OF STOCK Armory
Outdoor Marksman 298.50 21.40 319.90 OUT OF STOCK Outdoor Marksman
Sportsman's Guide 319.97 17.99 327.96 OUT OF STOCK Sportsman's Guide
Widener's 320.00 16.25 346.25 Widener's
DEALER NET SHIPPING TOTAL NOTES WEB SITE
---------------- ------- ------ ------- ---------------- --------------
Ammoman $219.00 $00.00 $219.00 OUT OF STOCK Ammoman
Ammunition To Go 439.95 17.90 457.85 Ammunition To Go
Armory 449.49 19.00 468.49 Armory
Bass Pro 299.50 13.50 313.00 OUT OF STOCK Bass Pro
Midway 459.99 18.00 477.99 Midway
Natchez 244.50 21.40 265.90 OUT OF STOCK Natchez
Outdoor Marksman 479.50 22.55 502.05 Outdoor Marksman
Widener's 254.00 14.25 268.25 OUT OF STOCK Widener's
DEALER NET SHIPPING TOTAL NOTES WEB SITE
---------------- ------- ------ ------- ---------------- --------------
AIM Surplus $170.00 $13.00 $183.00 OUT OF STOCK AIM Surplus
Ammoman 399.00 00.00 399.00 OUT OF STOCK Ammoman
Ammunition To Go 599.75 22.27 622.02 Ammunition To Go
Outdoor Marksman 429.50 22.55 452.05 OUT OF STOCK Outdoor Marksman
Sportsman's Guide 416.63 16.99 433.62 OUT OF STOCK Sportsman's Guide
DEALER NET SHIPPING TOTAL NOTES WEB SITE
---------------- ------- ------ ------- ---------------- --------------
Ammoman 399.00 00.00 399.00 OUT OF STOCK Ammoman
Ammunition To Go 225.00 17.90 242.90 OUT OF STOCK Ammunition To Go
Collector Rifle 299.00 17.20 316.20 OUT OF STOCK Collector Rifle
Natchez 299.95 21.81 321.76 OUT OF STOCK Natchez
Outdoor Marksman 189.95 21.40 211.35 OUT OF STOCK Outdoor Marksman
Widener's 300.00 14.25 314.25 OUT OF STOCK Widener's
DEALER NET SHIPPING TOTAL NOTES WEB SITE
---------------- ------- ------ ------- ---------------- --------------
Ammoman $229.00 $00.00 $229.00 OUT OF STOCK Ammoman
Ammunition To Go 449.95 22.90 472.85 Ammunition To Go
Cheaper Than Dirt 348.00 17.59 365.59 OUT OF STOCK Cheaper Than Dirt
Natchez 324.50 21.88 346.38 OUT OF STOCK Natchez
Outdoor Marksman 379.50 15.81 395.31 OUT OF STOCK Outdoor Marksman
Sportsman's Guide 337.94 19.99 357.93 OUT OF STOCK Sportsman's Guide
Widener's 350.00 22.25 372.25 OUT OF STOCK Widener's
DEALER NET SHIPPING TOTAL NOTES WEB SITE
---------------- ------- ------ ------- ---------------- --------------
AIM Surplus $219.90 $13.00 $232.90 AIM Surplus
Ammoman 249.00 00.00 249.00 Ammoman
Ammunition To Go 229.95 16.90 249.85 Ammunition To Go
Armory 155.98 17.00 172.98 OUT OF STOCK Armory
Cabela's 194.99 17.75 212.74 OUT OF STOCK Cabelas
Centerfire Systems 144.16 18.95 163.11 OUT OF STOCK Centerfire Systems
Cheaper Than Dirt 201.00 15.59 216.59 OUT OF STOCK Cheaper Than Dirt
Collector Rifle 164.95 17.20 182.15 OUT OF STOCK Collector Rifle
Midway 199.99 18.00 217.99 OUT OF STOCK Midway
Outdoor Marksman 199.50 16.12 215.62 OUT OF STOCK Outdoor Marksman
Sportsman's Guide 219.97 15.99 235.96 Sportsman's Guide
Widener's 198.00 16.25 214.25 OUT OF STOCK Widener's
DEALER NET SHIPPING TOTAL NOTES WEB SITE
---------------- ------- ------ ------- ---------------- --------------
Cabela's $279.96 $19.75 $299.71 OUT OF STOCK Cabelas
Fulton Armory 264.95 00.00 264.95 OUT OF STOCK Fulton Armory
Kiser Munitions 259.00 00.00 259.00 OUT OF STOCK jospeh@kiser.com
Northwest Loading 279.98 26.65 306.63 OUT OF STOCK Northwest Loading Supply
mil spec includes the steel being made in USA.
Thx
Yes.
Aren’t bullets made of steel?
No.
If you know the actual spec I would not argue with you...but mil-specs are things that few people spend time reading as they aren’t generally entertaining.
They have steel in them.
I propose a much larger caliber.
The MIL Specs include the Berry Amendment.
Military ammo must meet the Geneva Conventions on construction.
Full metal jacket.
Non-expanding.
This was in response to the use of 'dum-dum' bullets in parts of India and Africa by the Europeans. These were nothing more than large caliber, soft lead projectiles, which expand rapidly and caused horrible wounds.
Now, there are ways to enhance the bullet for the military and still meet the Geneva Convention. Some use a steel core to help penetration through armor and masonry. There is also a 'floating' core of dense materials (tungsten, depleted uranium) in a softer medium so the core goes further into the target.
The 62-gr bullet in the SS109 has a small steel penetrator, while the 55-grain bullet in the M855(most common issue) is mostly copper jacket with a small amount of lead.
The materials will probably go to Winchester, which has the military contract for 5.56 and 7.62 ammo.
“I was told at the shop I work at on weekends that ammo prices are going up 20% by December and another 20% in February.”
Any word on why?
Note to self: stay on CJ's good side.
I am trying to understand your point...are you taking argument with the purchase because of this Berry thing which I profess sounds like some political thing I dont really have any knowledge of...or were you asking if bullets generally have steel in them?
I was simply responding to the simpler question.
The war has really depleted 308 ammo, there is almost none available, and what there is is outrageously priced.
It is also almost impossible to find lead bullets for reloading these days. The rumor is that lead and brass are being bought up by China.
Has anyone read an analysis of how we would supply ourselves if we got into a major war?
glad I run a .223 Kalashnikov... it eats Barnaul & Wolf like a fat kid with a bag of jelly beans...
Thanks, that confirms my thinking on it.
I put my entire 401K into commodities and raw materials stocks last year.
LOL, yeah, we’d head to Walmart, and then confiscate private ammo collections...
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