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What's So Great About Christianity?
FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | October 31, 2007 | Dr. Paul Kengor, Dinesh D’Souza

Posted on 10/31/2007 7:32:13 AM PDT by SJackson

What's So Great About Christianity?

 

By Dr. Paul Kengor
FrontPageMagazine.com | Wednesday, October 31, 2007

Dr. Paul Kengor: Dinesh, I can’t help but begin by tossing you a big softball: I’m impressed by the endorsements for your new book. This is quite an eclectic bunch: Francis Collins of the Human Genome Institute, academic Stanley Fish, the Rev. Robert Schuller, Oxford’s Daniel Robinson, historian Paul Johnson and even Michael Shermer, the publisher of Skeptic magazine. Clearly, you’ve done something right. The title of this book, What’s So Great About Christianity, is a natural follow-up to your earlier work, What’s So Great About America, but the theme is really a follow-up to a bunch of recent books by others attacking religious belief generally and the Christian faith in particular. This book is obviously an answer to the polemics by Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins and others. What’s your answer?

Dinesh D’Souza: We’re seeing a surge of atheist confidence and atheist belligerence. The best-selling atheist books like Hitchens’ God Is Not Great and Dawkins’ The God Delusion are one indication of this. Another is the militancy of atheism on many campuses today. In a way, the atheist attacks on God and religion are a bit odd. I don’t believe in unicorns, but I don’t go around writing books about them. I suspect what has given atheists a boost is the Islamic radicalism we’ve seen in the wake of 9/11. The atheists glibly equate Islamic fundamentalism and Christian fundamentalism, and then conclude that religion itself is the problem.

My book What’s So Great About Christianity is consciously written in the C.S. Lewis tradition. Just as Lewis, writing after World War II, dealt with issues specific to his time, such as “How can a just God allow the Holocaust?” so too my book is a response to the intellectual and moral attack on Christianity launched by the new atheists. I take the atheist argument seriously, and meet it on its own ground, which is the ground of reason and skepticism. I want to show Christians and religious believers that theism makes vastly more sense of the world and of our lives than agnosticism or atheism. I also want to persuade genuine seekers that they should take Christianity seriously, and give it real consideration. I don’t expect to convince dogmatic atheists, but I do intend to expose and refute and embarrass them.

Kengor: In a recent interview, Oxford’s Alistair McGrath said that he is somewhat shocked by the lack of new insights in these best-selling books by Hitchens and Dawkins and the like, and how they are actually, in his view, filled with hackneyed, easily refutable arguments served up for years. He said it seems clear—and very surprisingly so—that these authors don’t appear to read the many readily available counter-arguments that quickly refute their assertions. McGrath believes they have constructed very weak cases that any rank-and-file minister worth his salt could dissect paragraph-by-paragraph with little effort. That’s pretty harsh. Likewise, Dr. Stanley Fish—not exactly a conservative—calls these books unsophisticated “rants.” Do you agree with these judgments?

D’Souza: While there are a lot of shallow arguments made by Dawkins, Hitchens, [Sam] Harris and the others, behind them there is the formidable atheism of philosophers like Bertrand Russell and Friedrich Nietzsche. My book takes the new atheists to task on specific fallacies and whoppers that they routinely make. But I’m not content to defeat them on their weakest ground. So at times I strengthen their arguments, remove contradictions, and give them the benefit of every doubt. I attack their argument not at its vulnerable point but at its strong point. If I succeed there, then I have defeated atheism in its strongest and most coherent form. Ultimately, it is Russell and Heidegger and Nietzsche who pose the greatest challenge to believers, not intellectual snipers like Hitchens and Dawkins.

Kengor: Despite all the noise being made by atheists lately on the New York Times Best-seller List, you believe that we are now witnessing what you call, “The Twilight of Atheism,” and a triumph of not only religion around the world—you note that the continued growth of religion around the globe has gone unnoticed (or at least not remarked upon) by atheists—but of Christianity in particular. Is that wishful thinking on your part? What’s your evidence?

D’Souza: There is a whole body of data showing that the world is growing more religious. One reason for this is that religious countries and religious people are having more children, while secular countries and secular people are not reproducing themselves. Interestingly while Hinduism, Islam and Christianity are all growing worldwide, Christianity is the fastest-growing religion. Islam grows mainly because of Muslims who have large families, while Christianity is also growing through rapid conversion. Once a religion confined mostly to Europe, Christianity has become a truly universal religion and over time it will increasingly be dominated by Asia, Africa and South America. This is very disturbing news for atheists. Not so long ago the typical atheist could be comforted by the idea that as the world became more modern, more urbanized, more educated, it would also become more secular. Religion would wither away. This hasn’t happened, and the trend is actually in the other direction. In fact, religion is booming in rapidly modernizing countries like India and China. Perhaps the new atheism is a backlash against the unforeseen success of religion.

Kengor: You have some surprises in here even for Christians, including those Christians who have bought into the caricature of the Galileo incident as a case of science and reason being trashed by close-minded religious fanatics—centuries-ago precursors to the Salem witch-hunters and, of course, George W. Bush—who opposed not merely scientific inquiry but progress itself. You re-examine the Galileo case, calling it “an atheist fable.” Tell us about this.

D’Souza: It seems like every year or so one of the news magazines does a cover story on Science vs. Religion. It turns out that this whole framework is a 19th-century fabrication. There is no sustained historical clash between science and religion. In fact, Christianity was crucial in giving birth to modern science, and the vast, vast majority of leading scientists over the past 500 years have been Christians. The whole warfare model relies on a handful of examples, mostly exaggerated or made up. Perhaps the best example that the atheists can cite is the Galileo case. I re-examine this case in the light of the best scholarship about it. We discover that the evidence for heliocentrism was not definitive in Galileo’s day. With hindsight we know that Galileo was right, but the arguments he made for heliocentrism were actually wrong. The Church’s position was far more open-minded and reasonable than Galileo’s. He made agreements that he didn’t keep, and blatantly lied about his views before the Inquisition courts. Still, he was treated leniently and allowed to continue his scientific work and died in his bed. I’m only giving hints of a remarkable story that readers should digest in full in the book.

Kengor: You continue this thought by, quite the contrary, arguing that the Church from the beginning was not anti-science and anti-reason but pro-science and pro-reason, and credit Christianity with “the invention of invention.” Who were these oddball Renaissance Christian scientists who believed in God—surely there weren’t many of them, right?

D’Souza: Well, on the Christian side we have Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Brahe, Descartes, Boyle, Newton, Leibniz, Gassendi, Pascal, Mersenne, Cuvier, Harvey, Dalton, Farady, Hershel, Joule, Lyell, Lavoisier, Priestley, Kelvin, Ohm, Ampere, Steno, Pasteur, Maxwell, Planck, Mendel and Lemaitre. Einstein too was a believer in God as a kind of supreme mind or spirit discernible through the complex and beautiful laws of nature. So none of these folks saw theism or Christianity as incompatible with science, as Richard Dawkins and others would have it. Dawkins is a decent popularizer of science but compared to Kepler, Newton, and Einstein he is a Lilliputian. So he works very hard to make Einstein look like an atheist. His proof is a complete failure, but give the man credit for effort. The deeper point to be made here, however, is not merely that leading scientists over the centuries have been Christian, but that science itself, in its assumption that the universe is rational and obeys laws discoverable by the human mind, is based on Christian precepts and cannot in fact be done without Christian presuppositions.

Kengor: So, are you saying that many of the comforts that Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins take for granted—like electricity and the law of gravity—stem from the scientific breakthroughs of devoutly Christian men who judged that God was great?

D’Souza: I could give numerous examples here—Boyle, Newton, Kepler—but let me focus for a moment on Kepler. Kepler wanted to become a theologian, but he finally decided to become an astronomer to demonstrate God’s hand in creation. When Kepler realized that planets don’t move in circular orbits, he was criticized by some for rejecting the creative beauty of God’s plan. These critics reasoned that surely God would have used perfect circles to choreograph the planetary motions. Kepler was sure, however, based on his deep Christian faith, that God had employed an even more beautiful pattern, and he labored hard to decipher it. When he discovered what it was—his three laws of planetary motion—he experienced something of a spiritual epiphany. In a prayer concluding his “Harmony of the World,” Kepler implored God “graciously to cause that these demonstrations may lead to the salvation of souls.” I don’t think we can understand the motivations and greatness of scientists like Kepler and Newton if we ignore their theological and specifically Christian beliefs.

Kengor: Dinesh, there’s this quite stunning, inexplicable refrain that we hear constantly today, from the op-ed pages of the New York Times to email blasts from my atheist friends, about the alleged incompatibility of faith and reason—as if you are either a person of faith or a person of reason. They genuinely seem to have no knowledge that the Church from the very beginning—for 2,000 years—has argued that faith and reason reinforce one another and are mutually compatible. Protestants believe this, and the Catholic Church has noted this vigorously not only since the writings of Thomas Aquinas but all the way back to Clement of Alexandria, and has kept it out front with regular homilies by the current pope, Benedict XVI, and major encyclicals from the last pope, John Paul II, who reaffirmed the “two wings” of faith and reason that lift us to truth and Truth. Anyone with a modicum of religious knowledge would know this. And yet, few secularists seem to be aware of this history, while they simultaneously portray believers as stupid and themselves as smart. What explains the ignorance and the arrogance?

Dinesh D’Souza: The new atheists like Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Steven Pinker and Victor Stenger are all theological ignoramuses. Their work shows little or no understanding of either Catholic or Protestant thought. I shouldn’t even mention other religions, about which they know even less. One critic, Terry Eagleton, says of Dawkins that his writing about Christian theology has all the credibility of a Christian who attempted to criticize modern science based on knowledge derived solely from a single book on British birds. Not that this stops our intrepid atheists from charging forward. Their motto is, “Take that, Aquinas!” Even Christopher Hitchens, who has a wider literary and cultural range, shows that he has no understanding whatever of thinkers like Augustine and Anselm. At one point he accuses Anselm of arguing that if you can imagine God in your head, then God must exist. This is a very stupid argument, but then Anselm doesn’t make it. Hitchens is a veritable pyromaniac in a field of straw men.

Kengor: Is this what you mean by “miseducating the young?” As for those of this mindset, have they been miseducated on these basics of religion, and are they, in turn, continuing the process now with the next generation?

D’Souza: Something a bit more insidious is going on here. The new atheists realize that the world isn’t going their way and religion is not about to disappear. So they want to take over the minds of the next generation. They want to do this through the schools. Of course, they know that religious parents might want to have something to say about this. Consequently, all the atheist tracts are filled with attacks on the idea that parents should have the authority to teach their children about religion and values. From the atheist point of view, religious education is a form of brainwashing. So schools and colleges are viewed by the atheists as institutions for deprogramming. It’s a little Orwellian, but, of course, the advocates of these schemes present them in the attractive language of “open-mindedness” and “liberation.”

Kengor: How much of this is the fault of not only the lack of religious education in public schools but modern education at secular universities? Some parents reading this right now may be surprised to hear that if their son or daughter takes an elective on religion at many (if not most) of our major universities, the course is likely to be taught by a skeptic if not an atheist, one quite often outright hostile to Christianity, and who at the least sees all religions as basically equal, with none having a rightful claim of truth over the others.

D’Souza: I’m not against the study of comparative religions, or even having skeptics and atheists teach such courses. But if you are going to teach religion you should be knowledgeable about religion and you should approach the subject fairly. When a professor teaches Hamlet in English class, or Hegel in philosophy, you don’t demand that your students believe everything that Shakespeare or Hegel says. But you do ask that they plunge into Shakespeare’s world and Hegel’s thought. You want students, at least provisionally, to go along with the playwright and the philosopher at least to get a sympathetic understanding of what they are trying to convey. Why should religion and Christianity not be taught in the same way?

Kengor: You write that the thinking of the atheist professor toward today’s youth goes like this: “Let the religious people breed them, and we will educate them to despise their parents’ belief.” Thus, you maintain that the secularization of young people in college, for instance, is not so much a natural process of alleged enlightened maturation but one guided and orchestrated by teachers with an “anti-religious” agenda.

D’Souza: I illustrate with a quotation from the atheist philosopher Richard Rorty, who died recently and is, I suspect, now having a lengthy conversation with his maker. Rorty argued that secular professors ought “to arrange things so that students who enter as bigoted, homophobic religious fundamentalists will leave college with views more like our own.” The goal of education, in his view, is to help them to “escape the grip of their frightening, vicious, dangerous parents.” Indeed, Rorty warned parents that when they send their children to college, “We are going to go right on trying to discredit you in the eyes of your children, trying to strip your fundamentalist religious community of dignity, trying to make your views seem silly rather than discussable.” Rorty keeps using the term “fundamentalism” but I think he means traditional Christianity. Of course, he is quite oblivious to his own secular fundamentalism, which is just as narrow and bigoted as anything you will find among religious people.

Kengor: So, quite often, two parents spend 18 years inculcating certain religious beliefs and values into their child only to turn over that child to a university that in four years undermines those beliefs and values—and the parents pay big bucks for that process of deconstruction?

D’Souza: Who said atheists weren’t clever?

Kengor: This doesn’t describe a college like Grove City College, but it really does describe so much of academia, which is easily among the most secular institutions in America. You and I could back that up with hundreds of examples and even survey data. One 2007 survey, for instance, showed that professors harbor a hostility toward evangelical Christians in particular. For the sake of academic honesty, should these universities redo their mission statements to make clear their belief in secularism and cultural and moral relativism?

D’Souza: When I speak on college campuses and point out that there is so much closed-mindedness and political correctness going on, even in our most elite universities, inevitably some professor will ask me about Bob Jones University or Jerry Falwell’s university. The professor’s point is, “Aren’t they just as closed-minded over there?” But, of course, Bob Jones University and Liberty University are very clear about their religious commitments. They state them up front. By contrast, secular universities promote an ideological agenda, but they pretend to be broad-minded and open and intellectually diverse.

Kengor: Having said all of this, your book is positive. You think Christianity is not only “great” but in great shape. Why are you such an optimist?

D’Souza: Theism in general, and Christianity in particular, make so much more sense of the world than the doctrines of unbelief. This is in a way the great secret that my book communicates to Christians. There’s no reason to be on the defensive. Ours is a set of beliefs that are completely supported by modern science and modern thought. For example, the Bible says that through the design of the universe we can see the handiwork of God. The Anglican theologian William Paley made design arguments 200 years ago. Richard Dawkins tries, in The Blind Watchmaker and The God Delusion, to show that Darwin overthrew the design argument. But if you look at the totality of the discoveries made by modern science, it’s evident that the argument from design is vastly stronger today than it was when Paley wrote. I’m genuinely excited by modern science because it’s proving propositions that were boldly advanced in the Bible thousands of years ago.

Kengor: Dinesh, what about the “antithesis” of belief in God? In your book, you address the consequences of non-religion, of atheism as a system of belief; here you point to the destruction and death wrought by atheist ideologies in the 20th century in particular. Tell us about that.

D’Souza: We keep hearing not only from the new atheists but also from political pundits that religion is responsible for most of the conflicts and violence in the world. Not true. Atheist regimes have killed more people in the past century than all the religions of the world have managed to do since the beginning of time. Let’s not even count the lesser atheist dictators like Pol Pot or Castro or Ceausescu or Hoxha or Kim Jong-Il. Focusing just on the regimes of Mao, Stalin and Hitler, we have a body count that exceeds 100 million people. Atheism, not religion, is responsible for the mass murders of history.

Kengor: But aren’t you being selective with the evidence, Dinesh? Sure, atheistic communism produced more than 100 million deaths in less than 70 years in the last century—70 million dead in China, 30 million in the Soviet Union, two million in Cambodia, two to three million in Kim’s North Korea today, to cite only a handful of communist killing fields—but Christians had the Inquisition. Are you ignoring the historical incidents that hurt your case?

D’Souza: Well, the best scholarship on the Inquisition shows that approximately 2,000 people were killed by the Spanish Inquisition over a period of 350 years. I would never apologize for the Inquisition, which I think represented a terrible strain in late-medieval Christianity. I am glad that Christianity is different now, and the closest thing you have to a religious inquisition today would be something like the regime of the ayatollahs in Iran. Still, how can you even compare the casualties of the Inquisition to those of the atheists’ regimes? Even a second-rate atheist despot like Pol Pot killed more people in a month than the Inquisition managed to do in three centuries.

Kengor: What about the Crusades?

D’Souza: The Crusades were a belated and necessary Christian enterprise to block Islamic invasion and conquest. Remember that before Islam, virtually the entire Middle East was Christian. Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Jordan—these areas were predominantly Christian. The Muslims conquered the region, and then Muslim armies invaded Europe, conquering parts of Italy and virtually all of Spain, which the Muslims ruled for nearly 700 years. The Muslims over-ran the Balkans and were at the gates of Vienna. Edward Gibbon, no friend of Christianity, says that if the Christians hadn’t fought back then, today at Oxford and Cambridge—and by extension Harvard and Duke—we’d all be studying the teachings of Muhammad in the Arabic language. Western civilization, then called Christendom, was mortally threatened. The Crusades, for all their excesses, helped to prevent this disastrous outcome.

Kengor: Curiously, this atheist-government/mass-murder thing seems to have not been a major thrust of these recent best-selling atheist books. How do those authors defend that omission?

D’Souza: Here is where atheist sophistry reaches Himalayan heights. Richard Dawkins writes that atheists might do bad things, but they don’t do them in the name of atheism. Someone should enroll the man in an introductory course in Marxism and Communism. Of course the Stalinists and the Maoists committed their crimes in the name of atheism. Ever heard of “godless communism?” The reason these regimes targeted the churches and the clergy is that they were officially and explicitly dedicated to the creation of a new man and a new society free from the shackles of traditional religion and traditional morality. Again, Hitchens is one step ahead because he knows this, but being one step ahead of Dawkins doesn’t get you very far in this race. Hitchens tries to argue that Communism was a kind of surrogate religion because it imitated religious rituals and so on. This I think is a bit much. Should religion now be blamed not only for the crimes committed in the name of God but also those committed in the name of atheism?

Kengor: Naturally, it goes without saying that you are not arguing that every atheist is a potential murderer. We know atheists who are gentler people than the Christians we know. Clarify that, if you could.

D’Souza: This is not the point at all. Consider what the atheist philosopher Daniel Dennett says in discussing religion. He says judge it by its consequences: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” Dennett says he doesn’t care if these consequences were intended by the founders of the religion or if they represent its highest and noblest values. He writes: “It is true that religious fanatics are rarely if ever inspired or guided by the deepest and best tenets in those religions. So what? Al Qaeda and Hamas terrorism is still Islam’s responsibility, and abortion clinic bombing is still Christianity’s responsibility.” Fine: I accept Dennett’s standard. But then by the same criterion, the mass murders of atheist regimes are atheism’s responsibility. If the ordinary Christian who has never burned anyone at the stake must bear some responsibility for what other self-styled Christians have done on behalf of religion, then atheists who think of themselves as the kinder, gentler type do not get to absolve themselves for the horrible suffering that their beliefs have unleashed in recent history. If Christianity has to answer for Torquemada, atheism has to answer for Stalin.

Kengor: Non-believers and even many believers ask, “Where is God?” when something bad happens. You flip this on its head by asking, “Where is atheism?” when something bad happens.

D’Souza: It’s interesting that whenever there is a real tragedy, such as the serial shooting at Virginia Tech, even the most secular campus becomes transformed, and everyone begins to use religious language and religious symbolism. Suddenly atheism disappears from the scene.

Kengor: Dinesh D’Souza, thanks for talking to us. It has been a while since you’ve been to Grove City College. Maybe we can bring you back again soon, maybe in a debate with one of these atheists?

D’Souza: It would be a pleasure.

 


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: apologetics; christianity; dineshdsouza; dsouza; paulkengor; religion
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1 posted on 10/31/2007 7:32:15 AM PDT by SJackson
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To: SJackson

..we don’t slash throats over a cartoon


2 posted on 10/31/2007 7:36:05 AM PDT by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: SJackson
Headline = In a word...EVERYTHING.

And the best vitamin for a Christian... B1

3 posted on 10/31/2007 7:37:38 AM PDT by NordP (Such tough choices ahead, I'm now a "middle of the road" voter--somewhere between RUSH & Savage ;-))
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To: SJackson

“Even a second-rate atheist despot like Pol Pot killed more people in a month than the Inquisition managed to do in three centuries.”

A mere fact lost on those so quick to point out how horrible religion in general, and Christianity in particular, is.


4 posted on 10/31/2007 7:38:44 AM PDT by txzman (Jer 23:29)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: SJackson

D’Souza is one of the most articulate individuals I’ve watched on television.


6 posted on 10/31/2007 7:41:32 AM PDT by marvlus
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To: SJackson
What is so great about Christianity.

JESUS!

7 posted on 10/31/2007 7:41:46 AM PDT by carton253 (And if that time does come, then draw your swords and throw away the scabbards.)
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To: SJackson
We’re seeing a surge of atheist confidence

Them darn atheists should know their place. First the blacks and women got all uppity, now the atheists are doing it too.

and atheist belligerence

That I have to agree with. Dawkins is annoying.

8 posted on 10/31/2007 7:42:31 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: SJackson
>What's So Great About Christianity?

I'm torn! It's either
the cookies and milk, or it's
Anna. I hate tests . . .

9 posted on 10/31/2007 7:42:49 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: carton253
re: What is so great about Christianity: JESUS!

the best answer!

10 posted on 10/31/2007 7:47:34 AM PDT by Nevadan (nevadan)
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To: SJackson

About sixty years ago, there was a radio debate between Lord Russell and the historian of philosophy, Father Copleston. It had two parts, metaphysics and morality. I have read the transcript, and I think that Russell won the metaphysical part. But I was astonished that when they began to discuss morality, Russell had almost nothing to say of consequence. He simply had no grounds are condemning a monster like Hitler. Hitchens and Dawkins are undermined because they are both decent sorts who would not personally hurt a fly. Unlike Nietzsche, Russell, and Heidegger, who called good evil and evil good, and provide a “moral” basis for totalitarianism.


11 posted on 10/31/2007 7:51:39 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Doogle

Nor do we shoot nuns doing charity work if we don’t like something the Pope has said recently.


12 posted on 10/31/2007 7:53:42 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: SJackson
Dawkins is a decent popularizer of science but compared to Kepler, Newton, and Einstein he is a Lilliputian.

This is about as close to a b!tch-slap as you'll find from a fellow like Dinesh D'Souza. LOL.

13 posted on 10/31/2007 7:53:46 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: SJackson

D’Souza is a real gem.

I remmeber his work way back in the early 80s when he was a kid. My then love was a Colombia doctoral and even she admired him.


14 posted on 10/31/2007 7:53:53 AM PDT by wardaddy (This country is being destroyed by folks who could have never created it.)
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To: SJackson

I think I’m going to have to order a copy of this one.


15 posted on 10/31/2007 7:54:12 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: txzman
A mere fact lost on those so quick to point out how horrible religion in general

Not a good example for the argument. I believe I read somewhere Pol Pot was raised Catholic and attended Catholic school.

16 posted on 10/31/2007 7:54:13 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: SJackson

Oh, oh, I have a question!

What’s so great about Islam?


17 posted on 10/31/2007 7:55:09 AM PDT by wastedyears (One Marine vs. 550 consultants. Sounds like good odds to me.)
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To: Alberta's Child

Dawkins is an anti-Christian bigot hiding behind his atheism. Hitchens is an anti-Christian bigot who is smart enough to know he will be the first against the wall if the Muslims take over so he cracks on everybody.


18 posted on 10/31/2007 7:56:13 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: SJackson

Christianity is so great that last night that insipid whiny WUSS Alan Colmes quoted Jesus Christ to try and guilt Ann Coulter into being an “anti semite” who hurt his widdle feelings because she stated she actually believed in the superiority of her beliefs.


19 posted on 10/31/2007 7:56:31 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: carton253
What is so great about Christianity. JESUS!

Amen! A big BUMP to you!
20 posted on 10/31/2007 7:56:38 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Ron Paul put the cuckoo in my Cocoa Puffs)
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To: antiRepublicrat
First the blacks and women got all uppity, now the atheists are doing it too.

you forgot to include homosexuals in that rant about the oppressed

21 posted on 10/31/2007 7:57:32 AM PDT by wardaddy (This country is being destroyed by folks who could have never created it.)
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To: Realism
. I believe I read somewhere Pol Pot was raised Catholic and attended Catholic school.

Not raised Catholic but did attend a Catholic school briefly. His version of totalitarianism was almost purely athiest though he did incorporate some Buddhism.

22 posted on 10/31/2007 8:01:19 AM PDT by wardaddy (This country is being destroyed by folks who could have never created it.)
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To: Realism
Not a good example for the argument. I believe I read somewhere Pol Pot was raised Catholic and attended Catholic school.

Pol Pot is responsible for his actions, just as was Stalin and Hitler. Wonder what kind of reception these gods in their own minds got when their souls returned to the Maker that sent them. What a crowd they had waiting for them. Does not matter where these blood thirsty killers were schooled, there is nothing Christ - like in their deeds.

23 posted on 10/31/2007 8:04:46 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Nevadan

“The Crusades were a belated and necessary Christian enterprise to block Islamic invasion and conquest. Remember that before Islam, virtually the entire Middle East was Christian. Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Jordan—these areas were predominantly Christian. The Muslims conquered the region, and then Muslim armies invaded Europe, conquering parts of Italy and virtually all of Spain, which the Muslims ruled for nearly 700 years. The Muslims over-ran the Balkans and were at the gates of Vienna. Edward Gibbon, no friend of Christianity, says that if the Christians hadn’t fought back then, today at Oxford and Cambridge—and by extension Harvard and Duke—we’d all be studying the teachings of Muhammad in the Arabic language. Western civilization, then called Christendom, was mortally threatened. The Crusades, for all their excesses, helped to prevent this disastrous outcome.”

This is the best answer I’ve seen for some time. Granted there were men who committed great atrocities at this time and that should never be condoned, but we forget that the crusades began as a defensive war against the spread of Islam bent on conquering western civilization. We would do well to remember this truth and apply it today lest the past be repeated. Unfortunately, unless the west unites and fights back as they did then we may well lose this time and a worldwide Islamic caliphate will become reality.


24 posted on 10/31/2007 8:04:49 AM PDT by conservativegramma
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To: Just mythoughts; wardaddy
In any event, history needs to judge individuals by their actions not their religious backgrounds, for obvious reasons.
25 posted on 10/31/2007 8:10:24 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: All

“What’s so great about Christianity??” It gives us a reasonable way to live our lives in a tormented world.


26 posted on 10/31/2007 8:13:23 AM PDT by cousair
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To: AppyPappy

I remember 60 Minutes doing a segment on Madelyn Murray O’Hare. She tried to say that Atheism was not anti-Christian. Then they show the bumper-sticker table with “Jesus is Lard” prominently stacked up. Enjoy your ditch lady.


27 posted on 10/31/2007 8:16:37 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: SJackson

Anybody ever seen Monty Python’s “Life of Brian”, where the guy asks what the Roman Empire ever did for them?


28 posted on 10/31/2007 8:16:53 AM PDT by RichInOC (...somebody was going to post it...why not me?)
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To: SJackson

That was terrific. Thanks for posting.


29 posted on 10/31/2007 8:18:26 AM PDT by agere_contra (Do not confuse the wealth of nations with the wealth of government - FDT)
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To: theFIRMbss

Who is Anna?


30 posted on 10/31/2007 8:19:43 AM PDT by Greg F (Duncan Hunter is a good man.)
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To: Realism
In any event, history needs to judge individuals by their actions not their religious backgrounds, for obvious reasons.

History would include their 'religious backgrounds', would demonstrate how an individual usurped an ideology for their own evil methods and means or how closely they actually followed the instruction Book. Look at the Clintons, one of their often used props was/is the Bible. They even got a world renown preacher to anoint them as somebody, sitting upon his 'come to Jesus' revival stage. Doesn't make them Christian.

We are told to test the 'fruit' if it be good or evil.

31 posted on 10/31/2007 8:22:44 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Realism

I believe it’s quite appropriate to acknowledge the role of religion or non-religion in the political actions of leaders.

There is no doubt that as D’Souza points out that Non-Christians have been far deadlier than Christians historically in the name of God or Man.


32 posted on 10/31/2007 8:33:34 AM PDT by wardaddy (This country is being destroyed by folks who could have never created it.)
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To: txzman

“A mere fact lost on those so quick to point out how horrible religion in general, and Christianity in particular, is.”

Careful—the religious monitor meanie might bawl you out
for attacking something. Oh, wait. You’re attacking CHRISTIANITY. Never mind. You’re in no danger at all.


33 posted on 10/31/2007 8:40:32 AM PDT by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: RobbyS
>>>>> Hitchens and Dawkins are undermined because they are both decent sorts who would not personally hurt a fly.

Hitchens is far from a "decent sort." He is a great admirer of the Bolsheviks, and has applauded Lenin's mass murder of Russian believers. He has told interviewers that he would enjoy participating in an acutal civil war against the "religious right." He has said, of Mother Teresa, "I wish there was a hell for the bitch to go to." If Hitchens were in political power, he would treat Christians the same way his heroes Lenin and Trotsky did.

34 posted on 10/31/2007 8:47:29 AM PDT by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
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To: wardaddy
Non-Christians have been far deadlier than Christians historically in the name of God or Man.

Your excluding many religions that can claim the same about Christianity, but by lumping them into one you simply are spinning the numbers.

35 posted on 10/31/2007 8:49:12 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: Thorin

I mean he is a blowhard who gets attention by making ourrageous statements. Essentially he is an Edwardiansocialist with not an original thought in his head.


36 posted on 10/31/2007 9:01:18 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Realism

Exactly which religions are you taking about? That of the Aztecs, for instance?


37 posted on 10/31/2007 9:02:57 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS
>>>>I mean he is a blowhard who gets attention by making ourrageous statements.

Yes, he is that. But he is also evil.

38 posted on 10/31/2007 9:04:21 AM PDT by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
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To: carton253

I heard someone describe it this way:

All other religions are about what you DO.
Christianity is about what Christ has DONE.


39 posted on 10/31/2007 9:04:52 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: SJackson

Great interview.


40 posted on 10/31/2007 9:08:28 AM PDT by denydenydeny (Expel the priest and you don't inaugurate the age of reason, you get the witch doctor--Paul Johnson)
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To: Nevadan

Absolutely! He’s the only one who shed his blood for MY SINS.


41 posted on 10/31/2007 9:30:17 AM PDT by FES0844 (FES0844)
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bttt


42 posted on 10/31/2007 9:30:28 AM PDT by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: SJackson

What’s So Great About Christianity?
***It’s the Truth.


43 posted on 10/31/2007 9:38:01 AM PDT by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq — via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)
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To: SJackson
The tragedies that we witness in our lives transform us and bring us closer to God. Which reminds me of the familiar saying: there are no atheists in foxholes. The closer we come to death, the closer we draw to God.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

44 posted on 10/31/2007 10:34:14 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: SJackson
The tragedies that we witness in our lives transform us and bring us closer to God. Which reminds me of the familiar saying: there are no atheists in foxholes. The closer we come to death, the closer we draw to God.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

45 posted on 10/31/2007 10:34:20 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: JackRyanCIA
The inquisition killed 2,000 people in 350 years

The abortionists kill more than 3000 people every day.

46 posted on 10/31/2007 10:40:25 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: MrB
I like that.

For me, the definition of Christianity is found in Ephesians 4:20 - "But you have not so learned Christ."

Learn Christ... the rest works itself out.

47 posted on 10/31/2007 11:11:35 AM PDT by carton253 (And if that time does come, then draw your swords and throw away the scabbards.)
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To: Greg F
>What's So Great About Christianity?
>>I'm torn! It's either the cookies and milk, or it's Anna
>>>Who is Anna?

Each generation
gets the Mary Magdalene
that fits its Zeitgeist . . .

48 posted on 10/31/2007 11:33:52 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: theFIRMbss

I think you are making less sense than you think.


49 posted on 10/31/2007 12:01:51 PM PDT by Greg F (Duncan Hunter is a good man.)
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To: SJackson

bump


50 posted on 10/31/2007 12:09:45 PM PDT by VOA
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