Posted on 10/29/2007 8:33:08 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
GRANTS PASS, Ore. -- California Energy Commission analysts urged Oregon, California and Washington to deny any requests from PacifiCorp to increase electricity rates to help pay for upgrading Klamath dams.
A Monday letter signed by California Energy Commission executive director B.B. Blevins asks the public utility commissions in each of the three states to authorize cost recovery only for decommissioning the four hydroelectric dams on the Klamath River. Indian tribes, fishermen and conservation groups want the dams removed to open up spawning habitat for struggling salmon runs.
"The Energy Commission has a responsibility not only to provide reliable energy supplies, but to provide for the environment," said Chris Tooker, an energy policy analyst for the California Energy Commission. "It takes that balancing mandate seriously. The whole reason we are involved in the Klamath issue is to help educate the participants."
PacifiCorp is seeking a new license to operate the J.C. Boyle, Copco 1, Copco 2 and Iron Gate dams on the Klamath for the next 30 to 50 years. Though the dams only produce enough power for 70,000 households, PacifiCorp says it's power that does not emit greenhouse gases.
The utility has said it would be willing to spend $300 million on fish ladders and other improvements to meet a federal mandate to provide salmon a way to reach hundreds of miles of spawning habitat blocked for the past century. It has also said it would be willing to remove the dams if their ratepayers don't have to pay for it.
(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...
Neither the ranchers nor the farmers who rely on Klamath Falls water is mentioned in this article.
Tear them down. California doesn’t need electricity.
Chris Tooker, zoology major, and one of Gray-out Davis’ flunkies.
Its all a plan, create artificialy shortages, raising kw/h pricing, and raising taxes based on the pricing.
It is like the baseline pricing....how to pass an illegal rate increase without anyone noticing.
Klamath ping.
THE STAND AT KLAMATH FALLS
How rural western farmers stood up to entrneched environmentalists and agencies of the Federal government and prevailed
So their solution to rolling blackouts and high electricity prices is more of the same obstructionism toward the industry. That makes a hell of a lot of sense. If these greenies want to go live in the sticks like Ted Kazinsky, who the hell is stopping them? Don’t drag us along on the ride to hell.
Explosives engineers will blow up portions of 50-year-old levees above Upper Klamath Lake on Tuesday, hammering a swift river into a slow marshland for the benefit of a fish whose survival in part once halted irrigation to downstream farms.
The federally protected sucker depends on such wetlands, and the action represents a replumbing of a key section of the embattled federal water project in the agriculture-intense Klamath Basin.
“It’s a large, complicated project with extremely high expectations,” said Curt Mullis, field supervisor with the Klamath Falls office of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. “We’re hopeful and optimistic.”
The levees were built in the 1950s to convert rich bottomland soils into farmland and to channel the Williamson River directly into the Upper Klamath Lake. For half a century, farmers grew crops such as wheat, barley and alfalfa on great swaths of the drained land.
The levees’ destruction will come after 12 years of negotiations between interests that often have been at odds, including The Nature Conservancy, U.S. Fish and Wildlife, the Klamath Tribes and the electric utility PacifiCorp, which operates dams on the Klamath River.
http://www.oregonlive.com/metro/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/119362651630280.xml&coll=7
A snapshot into the future of wind power.
We ain’t going to get to use it.
B.S. Zoology, '77
And people wonder why its cheaper to get grain from China
THAT is THE issue.
Envirofascist sleight of hand.
“Tear them down. California doesn’t need electricity.”
Kill the salmon!
No, Mr. Tooker, it's your job to make sure Californians have sufficient supply of electricity for their needs. It's the job of the California Fish and Wildlife Department to deal with issues related to environmental effects on wildlife. Just because you're a frustrated zoology major doesn't give you the right to abuse your authority!
Exactly right!
...and they only power 77,000 homes with those dams, nothing much to worry about losing.
Sorry but the dam removal plan sounds idiotic to me.
These are the same assbites that will cheer every time alternative energy sources power one extra home, but they’ll gladly sign onto this plan.
These folks should be on medication for skitzophrenia.
Thanks for the ping.
This case should prove instructive.
Agreed. Electricity is overrated.
You are the one whom holds the key. Screw it all. Blow it up tomorrow. I say do it and wake up this country. Sheesh!
more lunatic fringe environmental wackery.
We need power, and we need water. But who is stupid enough to give up those necessities in favor of a fish?
Thanks for the ping.
I will not comment because this is supposedly a family forum and I am not feeling very polite.
I’m surprised the Sierra Club isn’t behind this. Oh I forgot they are more interested in not doing control burns in California because they are tree huggers but when the trees burn anyway they want federal $$$$ and blame the govt. for not rescuing them.
You seem to be near my thinking. (I hope not to insult but I was a kinda regular at the Station House)
the only way we are going to stop this environmental wackery is to get right in their face and start saying NO!!
And say NO to their judges who empower them.
And say NO to the politicians who pander to them.
This is the master plan:
As a environmentalist...you want people to volunteer to give up their wasteful amount of electricity. If they won’t volunteer...you rig the poker game to go against the consumer. You start with taxes and fees...increasing the cost, hoping that this will be enough. Eventually, as dim as you are about economic matters, you the environmentalist find that higher costs won’t work. So then you slide into carbon fees or carbon credits...which work in the same manner...additional higher costs. The consumer doesn’t care. He simply pays more. So then you start looking for ways to stall electrical manufacturing. You deny new coal-fired plants and nuclear powered plants. When someone talks of a hydroelectric project...you deny them because that takes precious farm land. So as new projects fall to the side...the old plants come up for discussion. You deny them a chance to upgrade or repair...so eventually they will become issues and have to be torn down...leaving a gap in the grid.
The plan, you see....is very simple. It may take me 40 years to accomplish...but eventually...you will be forced to limit your consumption of power. I’ll decide your consumption level for you. I’ll do this because I’m more “wise” than you on the environment and electrical needs.
Of course, there is always the possibility that some country....like Canada or Mexico could ruin this plan...by manufacturing a dozen nuclear power plants or 40 coal-fired plants, and offer to sell you your necessary power...at twice or three times the current rate. They might laugh all the way to the bank as they take your cash.
amen to that o_zarkman
We need to cut California off the grid and let them do what they want IN CALIFORNIA without sucking everyone else’s energy up and causing inflated prices when they refuse to make enough for themselves.
The salmon have co-existed with the dams for a hundred years but now all of a sudden they can't. Smells like BS to me.
I noticed that.
These dams have been in place far far longer then the decline of fish numbers...
I thought the whole water management issue revolved around the Klamath Sucker Fish.
Now it’s salmon?
I guess the suckers must be thriving at a consternating level at this time.
Wussup here, Jeff. I smelled salmon even before I clicked on this.
See my response in post # 7. More of the same...the enemies of liberty and the traditional American way of life in the environmental lobbies, with the rabid UN NGO’s, in the Judidicary, and elsewhere are not giving up.
I don’t know if you were pinged yet, so here this is.
Hey, I am on official record as being opposed to this.
Exactly,
In a time of national energy emergency we need to not drill in the coastal waters, alaska or my back yard. AND lets take out hydroelectric dams while we are at it.
Let’s make mid east oil and blackmail even more likely.
Its not the fish, it is the economic/recreational value of the fish. And it is not just the value of the fish(recreational) but other recreational values such as down stream boating. Or camping. Or hiking.
The recreational value of the river to the local and state economy and tax base far exceeds the irrigation and power generation value of the river.
Another example closer to your home is the economic value to N AR and S MO of the White River fishery.
One more reason why global warming is bunk.
Oil is bad. Dams are bad. Bill Clinton is out there suggesting people put dirt on their roofs and plant grass to help GW. These people are either complete morons or actively working for the destruction of our society one piece at a time. If we don’t have revival it won’t matter who we put in office or what the policies are. Honestly,, this nation could tip either way. The future of this nation does not even depend upon sinners repenting! It depends upon the church repenting! When the church repents of it’s sin and falls on it’s face weeping for forgiveness, it will then have the power and authority to weep for this nation! We have replaced politics for repentance! Politics is great! Every Christian should be involved! That alone will never change this nation! Why do we think that some how our sacrifice to maintain freedom and liberty is going to be so less than those who laid the foundation?? Our country has gone through a lot,, it has always been a church repenting, God forgiving and a revival moving that has saved it! Our nation is filled to overflowing with sinners and sin! Pornography, drunkenness, pride, infidelity, lying, cheating and stealing,,, and that is just the church! And then we are so shocked at congress and Hollywood! I will end with the following. We think we are powerless to change the nation. God was fed up with Israel. God told Moses to step aside because he was going to wipe out every man in Israel,, sick of their complaining and sin after all He had done,, He told Moses He would make Moses a ruler of a new nation! But Moses told God ‘No!” Moses changed God’s mind! Moses stood in the gap for Israel and God repented!! God is still looking for a man Ezekiel 22:30, “I looked for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand before Me in the gap on behalf of the land so that I would not have to destroy it, but I found none.”
What value is recreational lakes and fisherys when the general public cannot afford to utilize those “public” lands because of user fees and the cost of even getting to the area?
Recreational amenities are targeted for use solely by affluent users and the amount of money they bring. Average people do not generate the same revenue projections.
Neither do farmers and ranchers. And apparantly, even energy production has lesser value than recreation.
Even water storage in resevoirs seems to not be of any value to kalifornia because kalifornia don’t own the water rights. So they endorse this wacko plan.
There is no credible evidence of which I am aware that removing the dams would result in net economic benefits.
Myself, I went to Canada. Spent 6 days and fished three.
Sometimes putting the water to higher beneficial use has nothing to do with fishing. Growing bent grass on a San Diego golf green is worth more than growing hay in the Imperial Valley.
I understand they're great smoked!
So what are these green idiots going to do when we have drought springs/summers/falls like this year?
There will be no water to release for flows if there are no dams during a dry spring, summer and fall. If there are no normal flow or water releases from dams, the salmon can’t make it upstream. Hell they will not be able to enter the river due to the sand bars at the mouth of the Klamath.
Which is why Coho were never native salmon on the Klamath. They were hatchery fish from Oregon not some damn sacred native fish/gods. Coho need high water flows each fall and good flows throughout the next year as they slowly mature and go downstream. They need about 1 year of regular river flows to get downstream after they are hatched.
Last but not least, this is why I no longer belong to Cal Trout, Trout Unlimited or Oregon Trout. These elitist sobs want no dams, no farmers, no ranchers, no lumber people or anyone making an honest living off the land. Yet they eat, use electricity, drive suvs and use wood products like the rest of us. We are seeing the same elitism with the striper fishers of the Delta.
In a just world, those that oppose power plants would be the first to lose power in a blackout. Those that oppose drilling for oil in ANWAR would pay more for gas than the rest of us. Those that oppose managing forests to minimize fire danger would be the only ones to have their houses burn in a wild fire. Those that oppose fighting the war on terror would be the only ones killed in the next terrorist attack.
Like or not, these people do drag us along into their hell.
The value of the dams locally are great. They provide power for twice the population of Siskiyou County. They provide premier white water rafting opportunities at the border. They provide a bass fishery. They provide a hatchery that feeds the commercial fishery. They provide $700,000 of tax base annually to the county. They provide lakes for people to live around.
Irrigated agriculture is our principal economy at $125 million annually in raw product which circulates another 5 times in the economy. Why should one area be economically destroyed so that people downstream can benefit.
And I admire you for these decisions since I know what an avid fly fisherman you are!!! I'm sure you had many good friends and acquaintences in those formerly fine organizations.
Now... What can you and all of us do about Ducks Unlimited and related organizations trying to act green while actually disrupting what they're supposedly trying to protect, and especially our productive citizens as you pointed out, through their militant selfish ignorance and bias???
In fact, they are diametrically opposed to those last three things and will tell whatever lie, create whatever junk science, bribe whatever judge (with money or influence or notiriety), spin whaterver tale, and create whatever deceit is necessaery to push and further their own sick ideological ends.
They have taken firm root within the myriad of senseless and ill conceived laws and regulations...within the priagvte and public sector..and we will be decades peacefully weeding them out...and then only if men and women of principle stand to be counted and get into position to make a difference.
I pray we do not reach a point where our only recourse is the non-peaceful approach...but that is exactly what happened to the founders of this Republic...and although the tyrants and enemies they fought were dressed and spoke a bit differently, and although the technology was 200 years older, yet the same type of anti-liberty, officious, king's-men elitism types of attitudes were prevalent then as they are now.
Hope you didn’t forget AuntB and Issaquahking in your GovernMental EnvironMental Schwartzensocialist GANG-GREEN trashing the economy poingoingoing!!! (disgusted at relentless, ruthless and remorseless Commonist people grimace!)
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