Posted on 10/22/2007 12:30:42 PM PDT by Man50D
Billions of otherwise productive hours are wasted each year by Americans in preparing their federal income tax returns and, to a lesser degree, planning their tax avoidance strategies. Those strategies involve counter-productive ways to avoid taxes that serve to cripple our economy.
Millions of jobs are now outsourced overseas, partly due to our prohibitive withholding taxes that make us non-competitive, despite the fact that the American worker is one of the most productive in the world.
Most leading economists agree the federal income tax is the biggest drag on the economy today.
More than $22 trillion is sitting in off-shore bank accounts, most of which are there to shelter it from the income tax.
If we abolish this tax, most of these dollars could, and probably would, come flooding home to bolster our economy.
Poor people in this nation could have their paycheck dramatically elevated if they have no withholding tax to pay.
How can all this be accomplished?
H.R. Bill 25 and companion Senate Bill 1025 are sitting on the sidelines, waiting to come to the rescue of the American economy.
To fully understand this article, it helps if you visit fairtax.org on your computer and become familiar with this proposed legislation. Find out how you can help with the grass-roots movement.
The Fair Tax is a proposed inclusive sales tax to replace the federal income tax, federal witholding taxes and the alternative minimum tax, as well as the capital gains tax. The wealthy people of this nation have become that way, partly because they know how to avoid paying these income taxes, leaving the rest of us to share most of the burden.
(Excerpt) Read more at sun-sentinel.com ...
Fair Tax ping!
It will never pass. There is no way to control behavior with a fair tax.
I’m surprised this showed up in a south florida paper...
Oh yeah... this guy has nothing to gain from the unfair tax...
http://www.electronicappraisers.com/StaffProfiles.aspx?ID=18536
Why do you want to control someone’s behavior? Isn’t that one of the sickening things we complain about the IRS doing and them going way overboard with it?
One point about the prebate... It isn’t actually a requirement in the Fair Tax. The reason it was included was to make it an easy sell in Congress. Without the prebate the tax percentage would drop to about 19% rather than 23%.
Notwithstanding the idea of “getting rid of all embedded taxes” and then turning around and embedding all taxes...
He is problable some illiterate old man who has no clue what the similar luxury tax did in 1991.
Perhaps he is some old man looking to suplement his social security with the fair tax.
He can write all he wants THE FAIR TAX IS A SCAM.
The Pre-Bate, the business crippling paperwork, the government intrusion ALL of that is concealed with the same BS propaganda.
This is also a left wing rag that supported the luxury tax until their ads were devestated.
The Pre-Bate has been repeatedly established as a new entitlement program. The refense to 20 million dollars and the dancing ecconomists is just a red herring.
If people think the IRS is intrusive now, just wait until this tax scam goes through on monitoring ALL your transactions.
NO THANKS COMRAD.
Could, may, etc. will kill this thing...
see #9 — this is “The Guy”
It is currently PART of the pending legislation, it is an an entitlement program in the legislation and PART of the new IRS Tax Collection department.
Governemnt determining what you “need” to live.
Government examining your expenditures.
Correction: The rebate IS a requirement of the FairTax (not Fair Tax).
The rebate ensures that no NRST taxes are paid up to the level of poverty, meaning it’s our money to keep. Those at or below the poverty level will pay no NRST taxes, they will keep what they earn. Dishwashers, busboys, car lot attendants and other low wage earners will have a rebate card or check every month that is THEIR money given back to them.
It is not a social giveaway but a REBATE of people’s money back to them. It can never be abused to start socialism giveaways. Ask why.
Written by a sleazy property appraiser who gets paid to have TWO appraisals.
One for taxation, one for market value.
Thanks for the link. I will keep him on my “do not use” list.
make no mistake the PRE-bate is part of the pending legislation.
the left is salivating at a new entitlement program.
WITH keeping the current systen and adding a federal sales tax (which also hits the internet goods)
right... “for the children”
Uh no....Many corporations have been questioned by Congress, specifically the Subcommittee on Select Revenue Measures of the House Ways and Means. They have answered that they would relocate in an instant to the USA if the FairTax were enacted.
The corporations that were questioned were representative of the tens of thousands of corporations that have set up a single room with desk and telephone offshore calling it headquarters. The only reason they have fled to offshore tax havens is because of the tax madness of the US Congress rendering them unable to compete globally and domestically against foreign imports.
So the answer is ‘most definitely would’.
Wrong answer.
But from you nothing else is expected.
Wrong, the left will never be able to turn the rebate into any sort of tax breaks for favored constituents.
Prove me wrong... Oh wait - no such law, so you cant.
You don’t deserve even these few words from me.
Do your own homework.
When another poster who is genuinely interested in learning about the FairTax asks me to provide links, I will.
You’ve been proven wrong so many times most posters on FairTax threads ignore you.
Consider yourself lucky you even get a response, like now.
Part of the reason government collects the taxes it collects is due to the very collection system we have.
It is simply retarded to pretend that the income tax system isn't a major factor contributing to our unbounded spending. THe income tax hides taxes in prices, minimizes the effect via withholding, taxes different groups at different marginal rates, etc.
If you want to fight the spending battle, go for it. I'm behind you. I've been fighting that battle longer than you've been alive probly. It just won't work without a change.
The nrst will reduce spending or I wouldn't be for it. By making everyone pay in cash, by taxing everyone at the same marginal rate, by eliminating invisible taxes in prices [those related to income tax system], the nrst unites all taxpayers in a way never seen since before the income tax. Every single individual would be opposed to tax increases and every single individual would support tax decreases.
.
Thought so ... run and hide.
It is evident you have no clue what the luxury tax was. It was only on a certain good of a certain price. The luxury tax didn't replace anything, it was in addition to existing taxes.
The nrst is a replacement tax [not in addition to] and it is on all goods and services equally.
The luxury tax wasn't anything like the nrst. You must not be getting out.
“Fair Tax” another addition to ‘101 More Ways to Lose to Democrats’.
You have the transcripts, I would be interested in what companies you speak of, see exactly how "representative" they are...
“The real problem is not with how the government collects taxes. It is with what the government does with them.”
I disagree with that. Yes, spending is a problem, but the way the gov’t collects taxes is terribly unfair and intrusive. The IRS assumes you are guilty and requires you to prove your innocence... That’s wrong.
The rebate provides an rebate of tax based on what it likely costs a family to live. THe taxes on that amount of spending are rebated.
It's just like standard deductions - a reduction in tax based on number of individuals.
You're wrong.
riiiiight and paying cash ensures sales tax is collected. NOT!
Big ticket items will simply transact offshore. See the 1991 Luxury tax. Easier to set up an offshore coropration for a few thousand than pay TENS of thousands.
Sales tax free junkets will return.
only the middle class and poor will be jamed with this realisty. But of course they will demand a INCREASE in the prebate entitlement to deal with their increased burden. Politicians who want to be reelected better say yes.
The Fairtax scam is snake oil.
“The rebate IS a requirement of the FairTax (not Fair Tax).”
I know its part of the FT. My point is this: The only reason it was included was to make it an easier sell in congress. Functionally it isn’t required to make the FT work. I’m not against the prebate, I’m just pointing out why it was included.
See my response in post 39.
What does he have to gain, other than the obvious economic benefits of the FT?
Just like the Social Security check is a suplement.
The prebate is an entitlement.
The prebate will grow to be costs of living. This is history, this happened with social secuirty, this happened with “the great society, this will happen with the prebate.
The GOVERNMENT determines what a family should have spent? A parade of lobbist to determine their industry need bigger prebate consideration. Boost car sales, give a bigger prebate for cars. Boost home sales give a bigger prebate for homes. Help renters give a bigger prebate for rent.
It will invariably morph into a LIVING PREBATE. minimum wages without the work part.
Now what will that be - the minimum wage and a tent?
Correction: The prebate has been claimed to be a new entitlement program by Status Quo Lovers (SQL's). No one could live on the prebate money. It isn't enough.
Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.
It seems to me, after having read dozens of FairTax threads, that there are basically five kinds of people who object:
1) Those who misunderstand (or intentionally misstate) the aggregate effects on prices and wages. There’s no “magic” money to be had, but in aggregate everyone ends up being a few percent better off in real dollar terms due to lower compliance costs. The biggest advantage, of course, is that each individual can choose when and how much tax to pay by choosing whether and how many new goods and services to buy.
2) Those who misunderstand (or intentionally misstate) the effects on the costs and values of both new and existing housing. Closely related are those who oppose the FairTax because they’d lose their mortgage deduction, whom I’ve already compared to someone whose favorite restaurant started serving him for free but who stopped going because it meant he could no longer use his 20% off coupon.
3) The minute fraction of people who have post-tax savings (such as Roth IRAs) significantly greater in value than the total value of their pretax savings (such as traditional IRAs, 401(k)s, etc.) and home equity - or those who believe they do, which I think outnumber the very few who can actually make that claim. I could also snarkily point out that the majority of these people are older and have had decades in which they haven’t bothered to fix our current tax mess, yet now they won’t give up one penny in personal asset value for the good of the country. But I won’t.
4) Those who oppose the prebate. They have a valid point, and I do think it’s one area that over the long term could be changed for the better. But it completely ignores political reality to believe that such sweeping reform could be passed without even a sop to the class warriors and closet (or not so closet) socialists infesting our government. It’s a huge improvement on existing systems in that it makes no differentiation as to actual income or spending, and as its purpose is to supplant and eventually replace those systems it is at least a step in the right direction.
5) Those who misunderstand the administration aspects, which are handled by existing state systems and add no burden to businesses above the sales taxes currently implemented in 90% of U.S. states. This implementation can be completely automated for most businesses and is far simpler than the corporate income tax and FICA taxes that all businesses must now administer.
I understand not everyone has studied economics and it can be easy to get lost in all the garbage that has been thrown around by otherwise respectable folks like Bruce Bartlett. But I also know that there are people who have been informed and continue to spread misinformation - which I can only characterize as lying, and which I assume is because of some vested interest in the current system. I urge those in the first category to do their own research and reading, and not get caught up in the smear campaign being waged by those in the second category.
Start here:
http://www.webcastgroup.com/client/start.asp?wid=0840929073673
In the above link pay attention to what Congressman Linder says. Then visit his website:
Email his staff and they will give you the list of corporations surveyed.
And for an introduction to Ways and Means developments read through the following:
http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/USInternationalTaxReform-Mastromarco-8-7-06.pdf
It is in, therefore it is part of it.
That is the most convoluted excuse for trying to make a sale.
Then you still have a MASSIVE repeat of the 1991 luxury tax fiasco. Only this time it is on a national ecconomy scale.
When the FT is implemented paychecks go up by an amount very close to the amount of price increase on goods and services. You could say it is a wash but it is better than that because of the elimination of compliance costs and embedded taxes. And don't forget the prebate.
So purchasing power could be as good as, if not better, than under the income tax.
You made the statement that is was not ‘required’. It is written into the FairTax not just to ‘sell’ Congress but to correct the problem of excise taxes in the era before the income tax.
In earlier America, before the 16th Amendment, people paid taxes mostly in the form of excise taxes on goods brought to market.
An excise tax is an indirect tax. There was always the issue that an excise tax was more burdensome on smaller farmers than it was larger ones. It was always more burdensome on those that struggled after starting from nothing than those that may have started with a grand inheritance. The excise tax was seen as a barrier to upward mobility, and hence set the stage for the income tax.
The rebate corrects the historical flaws with the excise tax or all indirect taxation. It can be done today because of technology whereas pre-1913 it was not feasible for the US government to rebate to the population that portion paid in excise taxes up to a level of poverty.
The rebate lets everyone keep THEIR money up to a spending level when purchasing retail goods including groceries and other necessities. It is not a handout. The busboy earning $250 a week will never have to pay an NRST. They keep THEIR money. Warren Buffett will also never pay the NRST up to a level of spending and then he pays. But he keeps his OWN money up to a level of poverty.
The rebate is for everybody. There are no favors and there will never be any favors for one group against another. Ask why.
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