Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Are Private Schools Really Better?
Time Magazine via Yahoo News ^ | October 11, 2007 | JOHN CLOUD

Posted on 10/20/2007 5:06:36 PM PDT by decimon

Edited on 10/20/2007 5:50:08 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Harvard professor Martin Feldstein used to tell students in his introductory economics class that economists agree on 99% of the issues in the field. From the nature of monopolies to the basic laws of inflation, Feldstein asserted, economists of all political stripes are in accord on the same principles. He claimed that what we read about in the popular press are the 1% of economic issues where the data support no clear-cut conclusion.


(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: education; privateschools
From the same author: Inside The New SAT. Long but interesting.
1 posted on 10/20/2007 5:06:38 PM PDT by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: decimon
The study suggests vouchers for private schools are unnecessary because - once you control for socioeconomic status - students at private schools aren't performing any better than those at public schools. The study says that it is "the kinds of economic and resource advantages their parents can give [students]" - as well as the level of parental involvement in their kids' education - that determines success or failure in high school.

What's fascinating is that the author doesn't seem to see that this is an argument against having public schools at all. If success/failure is all determined by parental involvement, socioeconomic status, and resources of the parents, then the public schools aren't accomplishing anything whatsoever. We could spend 10 jillion dollars on them or 0 dollars on them (i.e. discontinue public education altogether) - wouldn't matter. Because again it all depends on parents. Surely the authors of this study would agree.

That is, if the authors believe their own results.

2 posted on 10/20/2007 5:12:43 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Frank fan
What's fascinating is that the author doesn't seem to see that this is an argument against having public schools at all.

I think that beyond the scope of the article. And, if the author had interjected his personal beliefs he'd be lambasted for that.

3 posted on 10/20/2007 5:18:03 PM PDT by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: decimon

“Are private schools really better”

YES. We pulled our kids out of public last year. They were both on the honor roll and at the top of their class and scoring in the top “percentiles”. My oldest is now struggling academically at the private school because they actually have standards and don’t pad their grades. He is working hard to catch up and will do fine in the long run. I asked my other child, a 3rd grader, “What is the difference between your old school and your new school?” My 3rd grader replied, “At my old school (the public) we used to just do a lot of worksheets, I like my new school because they make you excited to learn and think.” Money well spent.


4 posted on 10/20/2007 5:25:51 PM PDT by 444Flyer (jar-gon: 3. obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon
Did the study attempt to calculate the public vs. private probabilities that students would spend time slipping condoms over bananas?
5 posted on 10/20/2007 5:30:06 PM PDT by Minn (Here is a realistic picture of the prophet: ----> ([: {()
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon
The study suggests vouchers for private schools are unnecessary because...

Except for the fact that for many of us sending our kids to private school it isn't all about the education...it's about not having our kids indoctrinated.

It's about not wanting my 11 year old to have access to hormones (given by a school nurse), it's about not wanting my 5 year old to be read King and King. It's about not wanting the President to be bashed and socialism to be applauded by a teacher. It's about wanting God to be a part of our childrens' school life. It's about the teaching of true history (my kids celebrate Columbus!) and patriotism!

And, in any event, it's OUR money so any study that suggests vouchers are unnecessary are meaningless.
6 posted on 10/20/2007 5:30:12 PM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 444Flyer
It's good to read that. Good for your kids, that is. Gotta feel for the other kids.

Looks like you found a good private school.

7 posted on 10/20/2007 5:32:03 PM PDT by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Minn
Did the study attempt to calculate the public vs. private probabilities that students would spend time slipping condoms over bananas?

A serious answer is that state and federal requirements must be the determinant.

8 posted on 10/20/2007 5:34:23 PM PDT by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: decimon

Private schools have limited finances and resources. Public schools have unlimited finances..my tax dollars...

I have almost no control over what happens in public schools but I do have control over what happens in a private school.

I went without a car and even heat in my house to send all 4 of my children to private school. Best thing I ever did.


9 posted on 10/20/2007 5:35:22 PM PDT by heylady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon
Rule #1: A kid with good parents will do better in a bad school than a kid with crappy parents will do in a good school.

Rule #2: A kid will only achieve what he is given to achieve.

Rule #3: Good public schools are few and far between.

I’ve got both my kids in private school, and I just shake my head at the things that go on in the public schools here.

10 posted on 10/20/2007 5:35:23 PM PDT by SampleMan (Islamic tolerance is practiced by killing you last.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon; socialismisinsidious

For reasons why we went private see post #6. (Thanks socialis, you said it better than I could have done.)


11 posted on 10/20/2007 5:43:48 PM PDT by 444Flyer (jar-gon: 3. obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: decimon
"Are private schools really better?"

You bet.

7 children in my family - all got into and graduated from their first choice university

12 grandchildren - all got into their first choice university; 6 graduated, 5 undergrads and one junior in high school

Among the chosen universities: MIT, Johns Hopkins, Boston College, Boston University and Dartmouth.

Fields of study: engineering (electrical and computer systems), medicine (pediatrician, obstetrician), accounting, physical therapy, and nursing (practitioners)

12 posted on 10/20/2007 5:44:15 PM PDT by xtinct (I was the next door neighbor kid's imaginary friend.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: socialismisinsidious

You support vouchers?


13 posted on 10/20/2007 5:47:36 PM PDT by CindyDawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: decimon

Sorry to indulge, but did I mention my son is now reading the entire “Hardy Boys” series rather than “Harry Potter”?


14 posted on 10/20/2007 5:49:53 PM PDT by 444Flyer (jar-gon: 3. obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 444Flyer
Sorry to indulge, but did I mention my son is now reading the entire “Hardy Boys” series rather than “Harry Potter”?

Which was the gay brother?

15 posted on 10/20/2007 5:57:50 PM PDT by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: decimon

LOL!


16 posted on 10/20/2007 6:01:01 PM PDT by doc1019 (Fred Thompson '08)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: decimon
Most union skool teachers put their kids in private schools.

A lot of maniacs at your local union skool.

17 posted on 10/20/2007 6:01:21 PM PDT by Rome2000 (Peace is not an option)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon

It depends on the public school and depends on the private school. My neighbor had twins, sent one to a highly regarded private school and her daughter attended our public school and she said her son that attended private did not get any better education than our local public.

I know some public schools are awful. We do have a great public school system which all of my boys graduated from and did a good job of preparing them for college. My eldest graduated from Purdue and the one is currently at GaTech and my baby is a freshman at Purdue.

It also depends on the student, they get out of it what they put into it.


18 posted on 10/20/2007 6:01:47 PM PDT by Kimmers
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon

Which was the gay brother? LOL!!!


19 posted on 10/20/2007 6:02:54 PM PDT by 444Flyer (jar-gon: 3. obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: 444Flyer
Which was the gay brother? LOL!!!

Didn't one transgender into Nancy Drew? It's hard to keep up with this stuff. ;-)

20 posted on 10/20/2007 6:12:21 PM PDT by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Admin Moderator

Sorry. I thought Time would flag an excerpt if necessary.


21 posted on 10/20/2007 6:14:27 PM PDT by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: decimon

Ok, considering the current news about schools in Portland Maine. The pro homosexual agenda being force fed California students. I don’t even have to read the article to answer YES and in many cases homeschooling ranks above both.


22 posted on 10/20/2007 6:22:53 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon
"A serious answer is that state and federal requirements must be the determinant."

That's part of it.

The big things are:

1. Bad teachers get fired.

2. Parents are involved in their children's education.

3. The generally is a highly developed sense of right and wrong involved.

23 posted on 10/20/2007 6:25:02 PM PDT by hometoroost (TSA = Thousands Standing Around)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Frank fan

Uh, well then something isn’t right if po’folks like the Frosts WANT to send their kids to a 20K per year school. Some awfully stupid people out there if a 20K per year private suburban school is “no different” than a inner city Baltimore school. Time magazine is not even readable anymore.


24 posted on 10/20/2007 6:31:20 PM PDT by boop (Who doesn't love poison pot pies?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: decimon

I was still laughing at your first one and now I am LOLing again!


25 posted on 10/20/2007 6:31:40 PM PDT by 444Flyer (jar-gon: 3. obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: SampleMan

Agree with your rules. But ironically good parents tend to be responsible and work hard enough to not be in the “bad public schools” areas. Crack smoking alcoholic welfare recipient parents somehow “wind up” sending their kids to crappy inner city schools. I haven’t figured out a correlation yet. I know there has to be racism involved, though. Couldn’t be any other reason.


26 posted on 10/20/2007 6:35:53 PM PDT by boop (Who doesn't love poison pot pies?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: socialismisinsidious
It's about wanting God to be a part of our childrens' school life.

That's why we sent our daughter to Catholic school. But it has been a mixed blessing. This year our new principal has behaved in ways the children (and their parents) recognize as anything but godly. Nonetheless, the superficial piety (much of it emanating from this same administrator) has continued unabated--holy water on a pile of crap. As a result, even though we are forced by contract to pay thousands of dollars more in tuition, we are pulling our daughter out of the place and homeschooling her.

27 posted on 10/20/2007 6:36:11 PM PDT by madprof98 ("moritur et ridet" - salvianus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: 444Flyer
I believe it. We just pulled our child out of private school because they relocated an hour's drive away. :( She's now in public (for the moment) and instead of struggling to get A's and B's...her lowest grade on her report card was a 96.

Additionally, I had to confirm with the teacher that they really don't have homework. Maybe 2 times per week is all. At private school, they started homework in Kindy.

I'd be cool with vouchers so long as the federal govt didn't get to stick their fingers in and tell the schools how to run the place. I don't think they'd stay out of it and that's have the problem. Crappy parents make up the other half.

28 posted on 10/20/2007 6:37:27 PM PDT by TNdandelion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: decimon
Wrong book series.

You're thinking of The Hardly Boys, and they both play for the alternative team. /South Park

29 posted on 10/20/2007 6:46:39 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: TNdandelion

You are obviously a good parent. I do agree that involved parents, whether it be public or private, are the number one reason a kid succeeds. Your child will do just fine with you as a parent. We didn’t have a choice because we live in Crazyfornia and the state wants to turn the children here into cross-dressing/environmental worshipping/God hating automatons!


30 posted on 10/20/2007 6:47:55 PM PDT by 444Flyer (jar-gon: 3. obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: decimon
Which was the gay brother?

Funny, just today JK outed Dingledork as a pedophile.

31 posted on 10/20/2007 6:56:12 PM PDT by Always Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: decimon

Private schools vs. government schools? I don’t know, I suspect private, but I can say with a good degree of certainty that homeschooling beats them both.


32 posted on 10/20/2007 6:59:10 PM PDT by ovrtaxt (My dog has worms, so I named him Scooter.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon

I’m a public school teacher at an alternative-school. I do my best to counter the left-wing indoctrination that permeates the curriculum. As a department head, I’ve actually lobbied to make world history an elective (instead of mandatory) while extending economics and American government from semester courses to a full-year courses. Let’s just say the marxists in my school-system didn’t like that one bit.

A department head from another school actually showed Al Gore’s “Inconvenient Truth” and then had the kids debate it. He provided no rebuttal - video, written, or otherwise. I should also mention that he is as crazy as a !@#$-house rat.

At the lunch-table, my vice principal told me that all teachers should be making at least $80,000 a year (higher if they had more experience). Oh, and he was not joking. He’s a raging Democrat. When I told him that my relatives were traditionally Republicans and that farming had been their primary occupation up through my grandfather’s generation, he said, “ I don’t see how you could be a farmer and vote Republican.” I snapped back that, “It was because they didn’t feel that the tax-payers should subsidize crops that no one wanted to buy. But if they were slightly less principled, I’m sure they would have voted Democrat.”


33 posted on 10/20/2007 7:19:58 PM PDT by Bishop_Malachi (Liberal Socialism - A philosophy which advocates spreading a low standard of living equally.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: boop

I like the dry sense of humor. Good job.


34 posted on 10/20/2007 7:20:05 PM PDT by TexGuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Frank fan

I am reasonably sure that the results were cooked just as those of the Lubienski study were that were touted by the MSM. Subsequently, faculty at the Kennedy School of Governent revealed the Lubienski study for the fraud that it was. This is just another instance of the ed establishment lying in order to pursue its agenda. In this case, it is trying to fight off vouchers.


35 posted on 10/20/2007 7:26:42 PM PDT by achilles2000 (Shouting "fire" in a burning building is doing everyone a favor...whether they like it or not)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: decimon

we have to pay for private school tuition on top of the taxes that go to public school. The schools are on the financial edge but that’s the only way we can give a religious education...that’s more important than beating public school on general academics.


36 posted on 10/20/2007 7:32:20 PM PDT by ari-freedom (I am for traditional moral values, a strong national defense, and free markets.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon
Is this private school "really better?"
37 posted on 10/20/2007 7:36:24 PM PDT by valkyrieanne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Frank fan
"What's fascinating is that the author doesn't seem to see that this is an argument against having public schools at all. If success/failure is all determined by parental involvement, socioeconomic status, and resources of the parents, then the public schools aren't accomplishing anything whatsoever."

Not really. More accurately, it is an argument for a return to smaller, neighborhood public schools, which had been the norm in the pre-racial-integration days, and which were pretty darned successful at education students.

The problem stems directly from the "consolidation" mentality of building "cheap/more efficient" gigantic central schools, and busing students in to them from great distances.

38 posted on 10/20/2007 7:36:58 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: valkyrieanne
Is this private school "really better?"

That school is controversial because it's a public school.

39 posted on 10/21/2007 2:53:58 AM PDT by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: CindyDawg
Yes. I support freedom, and my money following my kid. I pay high property taxes, which are really school taxes, yet the public school thinks that they generate an income. They don't, they take money from me.

Parents should be allowed to find the best school for their child and their values and their money should go to that school. Want for public schools to improve?...bring on the competition (true competition where my money doesn't go to them if my kid doesn't go to them).
40 posted on 10/21/2007 7:02:29 AM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: socialismisinsidious

I can see the pros but the cons are just to great IMO. I don’t support vouchers. My grandkids go to a private Christian school. We are not wealthy and have to give up some stuff to make it happen. Others can too. I hear what you say about tax money but I’m afraid that is a lost cause (for now). If the government starts paying for private schools it will just be a matter of time before they start making them “public” I pay to keep my grandchildren from being exposed to that doctrine.


41 posted on 10/21/2007 7:08:22 AM PDT by CindyDawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: madprof98
I too have kids in Catholic school and some, as in any school system, are better than others. The difference is: you as a parent have a say, can force change....can talk with your money. If enough people pull their kids out the free market will work and either things will change or that school will fail. That can not be said about government schools...they get your money no matter what so there is no reason to listen to you, there is no competition.
42 posted on 10/21/2007 7:11:10 AM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: socialismisinsidious
If enough people pull their kids out the free market will work and either things will change or that school will fail.

Certainly true, and that's a secondary reason we are taking our child out. In fact, the superintendent of Catholic schools sent all the parents a long, long letter which can be summed up briefly: "These are our schools, not yours, and we'll run them any way we please. If you don't like it, you can leave, and if you give us trouble, we'll kick your kids out."

A public school administrator could not be so blunt (nor threaten to expel students for the views of their parents), but leaving a public school would not hurt the institution one bit. Leaving this place may create an incentive for some serious housecleaning.

43 posted on 10/21/2007 9:19:00 AM PDT by madprof98 ("moritur et ridet" - salvianus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: madprof98
"These are our schools, not yours, and we'll run them any way we please. If you don't like it, you can leave, and if you give us trouble, we'll kick your kids out."

Ouch. Good for you for homeschooling!
This is a bit off topic....I worry about the Catholic Church and the so called religious left. I have a daughter in college and she attends Mass at the Cathedral of a moderate sized city. She called me after attending Mass last weekend and told me that one of the petitions was that "our legislator will pass the S-CHIPs program"! I told her to write a letter to the Pastor, but doubt it will do any good. Too many people think that Christianity is socialism and the superficial piety that your wrote of abounds.
44 posted on 10/21/2007 12:47:08 PM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: socialismisinsidious

Amen!


45 posted on 10/21/2007 10:00:36 PM PDT by NucSubs (Rudy Giuliani 2008! Our liberal democrat is better than theirs!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: heylady
I went without a car and even heat in my house to send all 4 of my children to private school. Best thing I ever did.

I'd agree. Wouldn't have changed a thing.

46 posted on 10/26/2007 8:41:20 AM PDT by JimWforBush (Motormouth always wins!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson