NYT's Rich: Americans, Those Gestapo Swine

NewsBusters ^ | Mark Finkelstein

[governsleastgovernsbest]

It's not as if Frank Rich has a deep and abiding hatred of his nation's leadership, or contempt for his fellow Americans. It's just that he accuses the Bush administration of using tactics worthy of the Gestapo -- the Nazi secret police headed by Heinrich Himmler -- and his fellow Americans of being like citizens of Hitler's Germany who turned a blind eye to the atrocities in their midst.

Those "see no evil' residents of the Third Reich came to be known as the "good Germans," and Rich unsubtly sets the tone for his New York Times column of this morning by entitling it "The 'Good Germans; Among Us."

Rich approvingly cites Andrew Sullivan's claim in last weekend's Sunday Times of London to the effect that "America’s 'enhanced interrogation' techniques have a grotesque provenance":

Verschärfte Vernehmung, enhanced or intensified interrogation, was the exact term innovated by the Gestapo to describe what became known as the ‘third degree.’ It left no marks. It included hypothermia, stress positions and long-time sleep deprivation.

But Rich, unsatisfied with his Bush administration = Gestapo slur, goes on to smear millions of his fellow Americans. Thunders the Times columnist in self-righteous fury:

Our humanity has been compromised by those who use Gestapo tactics in our war. The longer we stand idly by while they do so, the more we resemble those “good Germans” who professed ignorance of their own Gestapo.

Note Rich's "their own Gestapo." As far as he's concerned, Nazi Germany had its Gestapo, and we have ours.

I believe that when the history of this war is written, it will be seen that our nation waged it in accordance with some of the highest ethical standards ever observed in a major conflict. Yet Frank Rich paints our government as adopting Nazi tactics, and average Americans as akin to passive supporters of Hitler's regime. Were it not ever-so-gauche to do so, you might call that unpatriotic.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Frank Rich/schweinhund ping to Today show list.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Frank Rich/schweinhund ping to Today show list.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Frank Rich/schweinhund ping to Today show list.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

S-s-sorry for the double-ping. Either my computer or the FR site was a bit touchy at the time I posted.

[Caipirabob]

Note Rich's "their own Gestapo." As far as he's concerned, Nazi Germany had its Gestapo, and we have ours.

Yep, it's known as the MSM and their useful idiots.

[sergeantdave]

This is too easy - left wing projection.

Usually when a liberal accuses you of some characteristic, it’s a thing he himself is. I’d bet a box of doughnuts that when Frank watches an old World War II movie, he cheers for the Germans.

[Erik Latranyi]

People like Frank Rich have more contempt for conservatives than they do for our enemies.

That is all that needs to be said about today’s liberals.

[Hardastarboard]

When the Muslims finally nuke NYC, Frank Rich will see the errors in his thinking. Briefly.

[rbg81]

Wrong. If terrorist ever did nuke NYC (or any American city), Liberals would say: “See, we really need to engage these people and find out why they hate us so much.”. My definition of a liberal is a person who has had the common sense educated out of ‘em.

[School of Rational Thought]

Frank Rich - worthy of Goebbels.

Mainstream media and the big lie.

[RobbyS]

I believe that when the history of this war is written, it will be seen that our nation waged it in accordance with some of the highest ethical standards ever observed in a major conflict. Yet Frank Rich paints our government as adopting Nazi tactics, and average Americans as akin to passive supporters of Hitler's regime. Were it not ever-so-gauche to do so, you might call that unpatriotic.

I don't read the NYT, except for the stuff that it picked up by local papers, and I would never read Rch. The fact is that many an American troops has been killed or wounded in Iraq because of the ROE which spare an enmy who lauches attacks from amongst women and children. If only Rich and others would both to research how the French Army behaved, and behaved successfully in Algeria to suppress that rebellion, using interrogation techniques that neither our CIA or military intelligence services have ever used. The liberals say: torture never works, Au Contraine. The French found that it does,

[Rome2000]

The Nazis by this point had already killed all of the guys like Rich.

As long as he lives he is proof that we are not Nazis.

We tolerate our communists.

[y6162]

I freely admit that I would like to torture every single one of the NY Times Op Ed writers, especially Rich.

Much like the treatment in Clock Work Orange, I would strapped them to a chair with their eye lids clamped open and force them to watch Ann Coulter’s speeches, TV appearances, etc. while Rush’s theme song plays in an endless loop.

[Mo1]

As a parent ... there are a number of times that I have to sit back and let my children make mistakes for their silly and stupid thinking

The only reason why I haven’t sat back and and shut my mouth about these liberals with their silly and stupid thinking is because if they get their way .. a whole lot of people will die at the hands of the terrorists

Though I have to admit .. I am getting to the point of not giving a hoot what happens to these liberals

Peace, love, hug a terrorist doesn’t work .. and this isn’t the 60’s anymore

These liberals need to grow up

[Miss Marple]

Mo1, I am convinced that there is a weird connection between Sullivan, Rich, et al and their fascination with Nazis.

Maybe it’s because Hugo Boss designed the SS uniforms.

[sono]

Frank Rich is a charter member of Spiro Agnew’s “Effete Corps of Impudent Snobs.”

[PGalt]

Thanks for the ping. Thanks for watching/reporting. FReeper comments BUMP!

[VOA]

It's just that he accuses the Bush administration of using tactics
worthy of
the Gestapo -- the Nazi secret police headed by Heinrich Himmler --
and his fellow Americans of being like citizens of Hitler's Germany
who turned a blind eye to the atrocities in their midst.

IIRC, radio-show host Hugh Hewitt says there is a general rule
in journalism/public discourse.

...to the effect that when you start to compare your adversary to
the Nazis...
you are most likely losing the argument, as evidenced by resorting
to this sort of "last-ditch" name-calling.

I don't totally agree with Hugh Hewitt on this, but...
I PRAY Frank Rich will keep harping on the "Nazi/Gestapo/Himmeler"
angle all the live-long day.

Soon, even
SOME liberal New Yorkers will say "Rich has gone nuts".

[okie01]

Yet Frank Rich paints our government as adopting Nazi tactics, and average Americans as akin to passive supporters of Hitler's regime.

Frank Rich is an utter fool. He has an uncanny knack for being not just wrong, but dead wrong.

He is ever so fortunate to be an American. Because if he lived under any other regime and blathered so about its perceived shortcomings, he'd find out very quickly what Gestapo really meant.

[RichInOC]

I’d be more careful about comparing the Bush administration to the Third Reich if I were built like Hermann Goering.

[arbooz]

Minor correction : the Gestapo was not "headed" by Heinrich Himmler ; as a Reichsführer , he was in charge of SS.
I would pay money to watch Frank Rich and his ilk getting on one of those trains to nowhere.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

I’m no expert, but I did Google it before posting and according to this article Himmler was appointed head of the Gestapo in 1934:

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/heinrich_himmler.htm

[sauropod]

Rich is a hoseschizer (sp?).

[x]

Rich approvingly cites Andrew Sullivan's claim in last weekend's Sunday Times of London to the effect that "America’s 'enhanced interrogation' techniques have a grotesque provenance":

Verschärfte Vernehmung, enhanced or intensified interrogation, was the exact term innovated by the Gestapo to describe what became known as the ‘third degree.’ It left no marks. It included hypothermia, stress positions and long-time sleep deprivation.

"Verschärft" and "Enhanced" aren't dictionary synonyms.

What's described is something like the "third degree" -- maybe it's the second or fourth degree -- but the point is if you're creating a hierarchy of categories like this, you're going to use similar words to describe them in whatever language you use.

It looks to me like Rich and Sullivan are going for the Hitler angle, which means they don't have a real argument to make.

[x]

Rich approvingly cites Andrew Sullivan's claim in last weekend's Sunday Times of London to the effect that "America’s 'enhanced interrogation' techniques have a grotesque provenance":

Verschärfte Vernehmung, enhanced or intensified interrogation, was the exact term innovated by the Gestapo to describe what became known as the ‘third degree.’ It left no marks. It included hypothermia, stress positions and long-time sleep deprivation.

"Verschärft" and "Enhanced" aren't dictionary synonyms.

What's described is something like the "third degree" -- maybe it's the second or fourth degree -- but the point is if you're creating a hierarchy of categories like this, you're going to use similar words to describe them in whatever language you use.

Rich and Sullivan are going for the Hitler angle which could mean they don't have a real argument to make.

[Our man in washington]

Henry Kolm, who Frank Rich quotes, is a friend of mine. Henry is 83, not 90. Minor point, but it shows the general shoddiness of Rich’s fact-checking.

[arbooz]

The actual head of Gestapo was Reinhard Heydrich - appointed in 1936, followed by Heinrich Müller in 1942. They were the ones who made the Gestapo what it was. It did end up being one of the "subsidiaries" of Himmler's SS, but the Reichsführer-SS (there was never more than one) had a bigger fish to fry and was not directly involved in its day-to-day operations any more than Jeff Immelt is involved in running CNBC.

Of course, none of these technicalities changes the point of your excellent post.

[Dirty Davey]

Kolm’s age in the column is taken directly from the Post story to which Rich refers (and which is linked in the online version). So the error is in the original work of the Post writer who spoke to Kolm; it does not really reflect on Rich. You might want to send a correction to the Post.

[Our man in washington]

Good point. Thanks for letting me know.

I just got really annoyed by Rich’s column, and I let my annoyance get the best of me. I should have read the Washington Post piece before I posted.

[longlane]

Robby, you should have stayed for the end of the movie, the French eventually lost Algeria.

[RobbyS]

The French lost Algeria because DeGaulle didn’t think it worthwhile to support the colonials. I guess he saw it as a Brer Rabbit and tarbaby matter.