Ann Coulter on CNBC Show: Jews Need 'Perfecting'

Editor and Publisher ^ | October 11, 2007 | Staff

[Recovering_Democrat]

Doesn't anyone here realize this ENTIRE THING is a MEDIA MATTERS DOT ORG smear job? The same thing as O'Reilly and Rush...they troll every internet talk show, and then feed the main media players hit job stories!

Good God. We have to be smarter than our enemies, folks. Ann doesn't hate Jews. She thinks they need to follow Christ. And we are wanting to condemn her for her religious speech?!

She also happens to be an ardent defender of Israel, and a woman who isn't afraid to speak her mind about the true enemies of freedom: Islamofacists and liberals.

[JLS]

Thanks, I am not a comparative religion scholar by any means and not extra ordinarily religious myself. But I don’t think a very religious believing in their religion makes them a bigot.

BTW, I find it quite interesting that the Jewish religions is one that does not claim to be the only way to heaven, while Christianity and Islam which are derivative religions do believe that. Any speculation as to why that is?

[JLS]

Thanks, I am not a comparative religion scholar by any means and not extra ordinarily religious myself. But I don’t think a very religious believing in their religion makes them a bigot.

BTW, I find it quite interesting that the Jewish religions is one that does not claim to be the only way to heaven, while Christianity and Islam which are derivative religions do believe that. Any speculation as to why that is?

[SirLinksalot]

Your question assumes Jews are unified in their beliefs as to Christianity -— a seriously false assumption.

If this is the case then Coulter's statement CANNOT be taken as anti-semitic. I already conceded that Jews are NOT UNIFIED in their beliefs as I don't make that assumption at all. Many Jews ( for instance, Dennis Prager, Don Feder and even Daniel Lapin ) allow for the fact that Christians believe that they need to accept Jesus as the Messiah in order to be perfected. They of course reject this, but these Jews never equated this belief with anti-semitism.

Most Jewish theologians view Christianity as acceptable worship of YHWH for non-Jews -— although you are correct they generally reject the Holy Spirit and Jesus as unecessary “helpers.”

Again, this is a theological and logical issue. If these Jewish Theologians view Christianity as acceptable worship of YHWH yet reject Jesus as divine, then this implies that Christians are at worse, POLYTHEISTS -- wanting to have it both ways. Worshipping the true GOd and then creating an Idol out of a man -- Jesus. I don't think these theologians can have it both ways. You can't simultaneously say that you should worship YHWH alone, reject Jesus as YHWH in the flesh and still say that people who worship this man are not being idolatrous. It is ILLOGICAL.

It CANNOT BE ACCEPTABLE, and if as you say, these theologians say it is, then they ought to look at their beliefs moer deeply to see if they are not contradicting themselves.

Moses Maimonides (the “Rambam”) is one such scholar, and he wrote about this at length, struggling with the issue on both sides for most of his life. His writings are, by far, the most informative on these issues.

I can appreciate his struggling with it. I see the modern Jew struggling with this too. They want to be friendly to Christians by not calling them idolators, but IMPLIED within their own belief system is the fact that you can't have it both ways. If Jesus is but a mere man, then worshipping him is idolatry. Trying to be PC about it might work to prevent arguments, but logical it isn't.

I refer you to his writings, as he was much more informed (and clear) than I, a mere New Mexico red neck.

Anyone from anywhere from anyplace can use his head and think through the issues. I respect a New Mexico red neck who uses his head more than an Ivy professor who refuses to reason.

There ARE ALSO Jewish theologians who take your view that, if Jesus was not divine, the Christian Trinity is polytheistic, and improper for any person.

I respect these Jews more, at least they are CLEAR THINKERS. Look, I am a Christian and I hate disputes and arguments and try to avoid them when possible. But one thing that turns me off is crooked thinking. If a Jew wants to be consistent with the 10 Commandments and reject Jesus, that, to me is CONSISTENT. What to me is INCONSISTENT is saying that Christians who worship Jesus are acceptable to God when they don't believe that Jesus is divine. This to me is illogical regardless of who teaches it ( even Mamonides ).

Rambam came to his conclusion that the divinity (or non divinity, in his opinion) of Jesus was not important because (in his view, and, in fact the view of many Christian theologians) Christians don’t “worship Jesus.”

I'd like to tell Rambam to talk to Christians and ask them a direct question -- DO YOU WORSHIP JESUS ? My answer is "YES" to the question. So, based on the 10 Commandments, there is no two ways about it. I "HAVE" to be an idolater. I don't mind him saying that... but please don't insult my intelligence by saying that I can worship Jesus (who they say is a mere man ) and still obey the first commandment. I'd rather a Jew be honest about it. I'm not going to be hurt, offended or anything like that. It's just the nature of disagreements.

Before you freak out -— think about the Book of Hebrews, and the high priest position Jesus assumes.

Rambam decided that, because of the theology set forth in the Book of Hebrews, Christians technically worship God the Father by-and-through Jesus, as a permanent high priest.

Jesus is my High Priest by virtue of His taking the place of the high priests of the Old Testament *PRECISELY BECAUSE* HE IS GOD IN THE FLESH. If this is acceptable to Rambam then perhaps there is still hope that people like him are "open" to such a concept. If so, they might still have the chance to become ( as Coulter would call it ), a "perfected" Jew.

But Rambam ignores the fact that Jesus EQUATES Himself to YHWH, calls himself the great "I AM" ( YHWH's self-identification of Himself to Moses ) in His exchange with the Pharisees, and that the Pharisees themselves know that such a claim was blasphemous. The problem with Ramban as I see it is this --- he does not want to offend. I can appreciate that. But he ought to realize that :

1) There are many Christians who UNDERSTAND Jewish Theology and are NOT OFFENDED.

2) There are many Christians who would rather have Jews lay the cards on the table ( so to speak ) and present the issue as it is and not try to sugar-coat the clear statements of Jesus about himself and the clear statements of the New Testament and the apostles about him. Thomas, a Jew called Jesus "MY LORD AND MY GOD" after he felt the hands and the side of Jesus after the resurrection. This is in the Christian scripture. Either Thomas was an idolator or he isn't. Rambam is trying to excruciatingly create a "third way". It just doesn't work. Nothing is gained in trying to avoid the main issue.

Call Christians Idolators or call Christians misguided and if not, admit that either Christians are right or they are. I don't think with respect to the identity of Jesus, any other option can be found.

[Bishop_Malachi]

Alter Kaker said, “So your “love and admiration” for Jews is entirely analogous to your “love and admiration” for common criminals?”

Yes. It is. Should it not be? Should I love the Jew more than the criminal? Or another way: should I love the criminal less? Jesus even loved those who destroyed him. Please stop being so melodramatic. I disagree with the behaviors/beliefs of both. There is nothing inherent in the criminal or Jew that prevents them from embracing the Truth.

Alter Kaker said, “No it is. If a criminal converts to christianity, he’s still a criminal. But if a Jew converts to Christianity, he’s no longer a Jew. If you want all Jews to convert, then you want Jews to disappear. It’s a really simple concept, and one you can’t really dance around.”

A criminal may still be a criminal in the eyes of the law, but he/she is redeemed in the eyes of God (and is thus no longer a criminal). Furthermore, one who is born ethnically jewish is a Jew (whether he/she practices or not). If they have a jewish mother, they are arguably jewish even if they practice another faith.

Lastly, I believe Christianity is the true faith. Why would I not want others to embrace it? If that implies that other people stop practicing their faiths, then so what? Am I supposed to desire that they practice their faith for multicultural reasons? Merely for the sake of diversity? If Jews convert, then it should be due to a coversion of their hearts...not compulsory. I do not want Jews to “disappear” because the Gestapo kicks in their doors and grags them away. Again, please quit being so melodramatic.

[Hacksaw]

Jews have a much more complex understanding of righteousness and sin, forgiveness and atonement.

That remark about Christians is essentially no different than Coulter's remark about Jews. But you will be the last to acknowlege it, or even realize it.

[Ferox]

Jews do not need to perfected; they need to be converted.

[Eli70]

Far from siding with Ann, but in all fairness, what Ann said is not new and is arguably not anti-semetic.

Thousand of jewish people who come to embrace Christianity call themselves just that : “true Jews” or “Completed Jews”.

A good case in point is the Jewish rapper “50 Shekels” now Aviad Cohen, who , on his last CD calls himself “True Jew”, after discovering his Messiah Yeshua (Jesus)... listen to his music : a v i a d c o h e n . c o m (no spaces)

shalom !

[Stepan12]