Posted on 10/04/2007 9:32:58 AM PDT by Notary Sojac
Our rant about those $7,250 Pear Anjou speaker cables found its way to the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF), and Randi offered $1 million to anyone who can prove those cables are any better than ordinary (and also overpriced) Monster Cables. Pointing out the absurd review by audiophile Dave Clark, who called the cables "danceable," Randi called it "hilarious and preposterous." He added that if the cables could do what their makers claimed, "they would be paranormal."
We see that the Pear Cable company is advertising a pair of 12-foot "Anjou" audio cables for $7,250; that's $302 a foot! And, as expected, "experts" were approached for their opinions on the performance of these wonders ... Well, we at the JREF are willing to be shown that these "no-compromise" cables perform better than, say, the equivalent Monster cables. While Pear rattles on about "capacitance," "inductance," "skin effect," "mechanical integrity" and "radio frequency interface," - all real qualities and concerns, and adored by the hi-fi nut-cases - we naively believe that a product should be judged by its actual performance, not by qualities that can only be perceived by attentive dogs or by hi-tech instrumentation. That said, we offer the JREF million-dollar prize to - for example - Dave Clark, Editor of the audio review publication Positive Feedback Online.
This is not Randi's first clash with audiophile reviewers who claim to hear differences between various pieces of exotic equipment. He promises a million dollars (which he has waiting in an account for them) if any can prove in double-blind scientific testing that their extraordinary claims are true. None have stepped up so far.
When I got my HDTV, I was in the market for HDMI cables. Not knowing much about the new cabling, I went to Circuit City where I saw the Monster ones for $89.99. I was shocked. After a little research online, I found I could buy an HDMI cable for $12 that would do the same job.
My telephone line knew he was going to say that.
Monster Cables - P.T. Barnum
I wouldn’t consider myself a stereophile, but I can detect marked difference between the way my music sounds when played on my computer with iTunes and how it sounds coming out of my car CD player from a burned cd. The sound isn’t as rich on car stereo. I haven’t figured out if something is being lost during CD burning, my CDs are of poor quality, the speakers in my car don’t have the audio range that my Bose headphone on my computer has (quite possible), or my CD player doesn’t have the audio range as the sound card in my computer. Or some combination thereof.
The Amazing Randi!!
(chuckle)
Amen.
Monster cables MIGHT be of some benefit in an analog situation (e.g., a guitar cable).
In a digital environment (e.g., HDMI) all cables are essentially equal especially given the small distances covered.
I see nothing wrong with spending $2100 on a Marshall amp if you can afford it. But cables for that much money?
I guess you don't want to hear about the 12AX7 vacuum tube preamp I have in my computer mouse then.
I too have enjoyed Randi's work and efforts.
You can’t tap dance on pillows.
But oxygen free copper speaker cables allow the music to ‘breathe’ and sound ‘more airy.’ Cheap hardware store zip cord ‘restricts’ the music.
Your car stereo does have to compete with glass windows and other strangely-shaped surfaces, whereas your home stereo, even your PC, may not.
Some audiophile claims aren’t BS at all; the quality difference between stereo equipment can be immense. But I agree with Randi on this — $7000 cables? Lunacy.
Maybe it’s just that your car has bad acoustics and lots of ambient noise. I remember Maximum PC magazine did a blind sound test among several audiophiles and audio hardware reviewers, testing mp3s, turntable records, reel to reel and cassette. Most of the audiophiles said before the tests there is no substitute for a record on a turntable in terms of sound quality. The MP3’s (160 bitrate) won.
I've been telling people Monster cables were scam for years - I'm so jazzed to see Randi taking this stuff on.
Are they saying the cables aren’t better or that they are better, but the average person can’t tell the difference?
LOL
Bingo. After having been involved in every phase of the audio electronics business over the years I can say that the weak link is the speakers.
The ones in your vehicle at best, when brand new have a frequency response of 20-20,00Hz. As time and environment does their thing on the rubber surrounds and other elements of the speakers, this reduces their efficiency.
They simply can be no match for the Bose headphones you use where a newer speaker is in close proximity to your ear.
It is possible too that at higher volumes used in a car environment, the amp is clipping a bit (not reproducing higher frequencies) and this would easily affect the sound reproduction. That would depend more on the source and your listening habits.
I'm inclined to agree with you that it's the headphones.
Given the same source material, my guess is that most of the variation in perceived quality results from the last link in the chain..whatever you use to produce the final output to your (analog) ears.
May be other factors, but music does lose clarity each time it is digitally transcoded. Multiple points of transcoding is also one of the challenges in VoIP networks. It is hard to put in words the subtle difference - some say tinny, distant, "chambered", etc. - but there is a difference.
Without knowing the exact parameters of your A/B test you’re talking about the difference between listening to an mp3 version of a tune versus listening to a “full” WAV file of the same tune. Major difference. The mp3 is in most cases perfectly adequate for headphone or portable use and is an “abbreviated” format designed to conserve disk/memory space. Which it does...at the expected expense of dynamic range and etc etc.
Ya think?
The iTunes files are reduced in spectral range so they will sound reasonably clear in earbuds. When played over a bigger stereo system the difference is audible and definitely not HiFi by older standards. It’s like pop tunes intended to be played over AM radio: HiFi they are not, but you can hear the screeching and caterwauling for a block.
Your first problem is that music offered on itunes is at a significantly lower bitrate (meaning it has less of the original digital data describing the sound) than a purchased CD. Granted, on most crappy equipment including those tiny earbuds sold with iPods it is nearly impossible to hear a difference. But on good equipment with a ear for music you will definately hear a difference.
You can send higher bitrate music to your iPod but you need much more disk storage.
If you are making cd’S from your iTunes downloads they, too will be at the lower bit rate.
“Personally, I find nothing captures the authenticity of perfomance, the essential “you are there” je ne sais quoi-ness of musical experience, quite as well as the Edison Wax Cylinder.”
That’s because you had to be THERE to record one!
Don’t laugh, you’d be amazed at how good a wax cylinder in good condition, played on vintage (non-electric) phonograph actually sounds.
Most of the ones you hear are badly scratched and worn. Those in “like new” condition, played on a machine in good condition are impressive. Not a single transistor or vacuum tube, not even an electic motor.
Of course devices sound different...I can readily tell the difference between various sound cards, set up as identically as possibly, on the same speakers or headphones, or the same music played on my iPod Shuffle or from the original cds on a portable player. You learn the characteristics of a device over time and get used to it and can easily identify the familiar quirks it has, the same as you can identify the sound of your own car’s engine.
I’m pretty skeptical about cables making any real difference, though, figuring all cables being compared are of a reasonable minimal quality and undamaged.
The difference between a $200 rig and a $2000 rig? Absolutely!
Between $2000 and $10000? Probably.
Between $10000 and infinity? I doubt it very much. The law of diminishing returns starts to kick in big time when you reach the high four figures.
Suckah be born ebry minnit, you know what I’m talking about?
I’ve seen people wire their stereo or hi-fi speakers with eentsy wires, like 22 ga telephone wires. That’s clearly wrong, speakers being driven with real power require current, sometimes considerable current, and tiny conductors indeed act like resistors, the longer they are, the worse.
In professional sound-reinforement applications, like traveling rock shows, another consideration is that the cables undergo a lot of flexing when they are put in place and taken down multiple times. So, not only do they have to carry a lot of power, they have to not degrade by losing conductors under rough treatment.
That said, with the proviso that it’s possible to make crappy connections using even mil-spec wire and connectors, once you have adequate gauge cables, the obsession with welding-gauge speaker wires is laughable.
How can the music breathe wo/ oxygen!?
MV
Ping to you Stickman.
You’ll like post #11 lol
As much as I hate the sale-hype and warranty-hype of today’s big-box
stores, I do have to give credit to at least one good fellow at the
Best Buy in West Los Angeles.
I went there with my IMPOSSIBLE-to-please boss and with the Best Buy
fellow’s help find a reasonably priced HDTV to replace his old TV.
He did such a good job with my too-often unreasonable boss that
I tried to palm him a $20 bill as a gratuity.
He said “thanks, but company policy dictates I can’t take that. Thanks anyway.”
Maybe I was just shell-shocked by all the hype thrown my way at
Best-Buy and Circuit City...but this fellow sure seemed to break the mold.
Larry Craig can.
I should have added to my earlier post 44 to you...
BUT most of the Big Box personnel I’ve had to deal with...I wouldn’t be
too busted up at putting them out of a job.
Sad, but true.
All I can think is that the managers/CEOs of these companies have
never shopped (incognito) at one of their own stores.
Good. Audiophiles are nuts, and most probably support Ron Paul.
What would I know, I’m a scratchy FM bebop jazz buff.
Well, all I can say is that not everything in my life is political, and I can still commend the work of those who don’t feel obliged to battle for every cause I support. I view that as part of what separates me from the DUmmies.
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