Many American colleges balk at U.S. News rankings

CNN ^ | June 2007 | Janine Brady

[SirLinksalot]

If presidents of some of the nation's top liberal arts colleges get their way, they will no longer be included in the U.S. News and World Report's influential collegiate ranking system.

At issue is the "reputation survey," part of the ranking system that is filled out by the presidents of colleges included in the survey.

Presidents from some of the nation's leading private and liberal arts colleges met in Annapolis Tuesday to discuss a possible boycott. Approximately 80 presidents and 71 academic deans of the nation's leading liberal arts colleges attended the annual meeting of the Annapolis Group, an organization made up of 121 private and liberal arts colleges.

Todd Wilson, director of communications for Sarah Lawrence College -- which is among those not participating in the reputation survey -- called it "a collegiate beauty contest that is not a valid basis for judging the quality of education."

While the group did not call for an overall boycott of the rankings system, according to its newly named chair, Kate Will, the majority of members indicated their intent to stop participating in the reputation survey, which produces what she says is "not educationally valid research."

A letter was sent out last May by Lloyd Thacker, executive director of The Education Conservancy, and 12 college presidents to hundreds of their colleagues asking them to "refuse to fill out the U.S. News and World Report reputation survey and refuse to use the rankings in any promotional efforts on behalf of their college or university."

Thacker told CNN that "rankings have reduced students to consumers, education to product, and gaining admission into college a high-priced game that has to be played."

The letter has acquired 22 new signatures since it was sent out May 10, and it received overwhelming support in Annapolis on Tuesday.

[SirLinksalot]

Personally, I prefer the more well researched Princeton Review, but that's just me.

[longtermmemmory]

Number of AntiAmerican Despots hosted:______

Number of Caucasian Students Lives Destroyed by false accusations:_____

Number of useless “studies” degrees issued: _____

[SirLinksalot]

I’ll add to the list :

Number of schools hostile to ROTC :____

[Philistone]

Typical Liberals - if you don’t like research results, ban the research...

[WL-law]

US colleges are trying to figure out how a measly third-rate weekly newsmag has come to control their lives, and to control the perception of their value.

It’s really quite bizarre, and the inability of the colleges collectively to ward this off speaks volumes about the hollow core of much of US academia.

[Lil'freeper]

rankings have reduced students to consumers, education to product, and gaining admission into college a high-priced game that has to be played.

But...

Students are consumers.*
Education is a product.*
Admission is a game.

And long has it been so.

* Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Vigilanteman]

Any survey is no better than the criteria selected.

I remember the ado over the "most liveable city" surveys. My former hometown, Fargo, North Dakota, always ranked near the bottom when weather was included and near the top when it wasn't.

Ditto for San Fransicko-- it is a paradise if you are a rich well-connected gay and hell if you are one of the poor schmucks who work for a living, pay taxes and are trying to find affordable housing.

My own yardstick is to look at who wants in and who wants out. Nobody every drowned in a rubber raft heading to Cuba.

[SirLinksalot]

Admission is a game.

I found this statement interesting. Could you kindly elaborate ? Thanks.

[SirLinksalot]

My own yardstick is to look at who wants in and who wants out.

By this measure then, the US News and world report's rankings should always be spot on. More people want IN to the Ivy's (always ranked on top of their list) than out ( even when most have to be in debt by over $100,000 to get in ).

[longtermmemmory]

but the university “product” market is rigged.

You have no guarantee of utility.

If you have a difficient degree there is no refund.

If you can’t get a job with your degree, you can’t even get away from the cost of the useless degree via bankruptcy. You are an indentured peon to the university system.

(though hardship discharges do exist but are for those near death)

[Lil'freeper]

The game begins around frosh year in high school where the entire focus ceases to be on education but rather on accumulating gold stars to give the student an edge in college admissions. (In some cases, the high school itself is selected to improve the kids' chances.)

This is driven primarily by parents, some of whom base their own self worth on which college their kids get into. Courses of study are selected with college admission in mind, as are extra curriculars. Some parents will push their kids into charitable service work. Others will invest big money into tutors who do "first credit" instruction over summers and breaks (so that the student can get credit for extra courses that may, or may not have been offered by the school), or attend a community college for more credits. Then there's coaching courses for the SATs.

It is a huge push, bordering on obsession, to have a better college admission package than the next kid, to have the highest GPA, to have more credits overall, to have more AP credits, to have more honors and awards, to have more time building houses for the poor in the Dominican Republic, to have more Varsity letters, more endorsements from Mayors and legislators... just to get into a brand name college. It is a game.

I base these statements on my experiences teaching at a private college-prep school in Baltimore. It was an eye-opening experience.

[taxcontrol]

Thacker told CNN that "rankings have reduced students to consumers, education to product, and gaining admission into college a high-priced game that has to be played."

....

LOL - I can only image how difficult it must have been to choke those words of truth because colleges and universities do provide a product and students are the consumers and college is a high priced game.

The majority of which is not needed.

[geezerwheezer]

Quite a few of the colleges listed really just suck. The magazine would do us a real favor listing them by the number of weirdos, flakes, commies, lesbians, homosexuals, fake Indians, atheists,& tree huggers there that are teaching at each of these schools. That would be a real bonus section in any magazine! (not to mention “global warming scientists” too!)

[AnAmericanMother]

Having just finished with the admissions process . . .

It's not really a game, but there is a system, so of course you can game the system, just like any system. There are things you can do first of all to find a good match between your kid and the college of her choice - and second of all to maximize the appeal of her application. The gaming of the system all comes in on the second part. If you don't do your research and due diligence on the first part, you can game until you're blue in the face and it will do you no good.

The USNWR ratings are interesting (and somewhat informative even) but they are only useful as part of a big mosaic of assembled facts. My daughter's college is right where I would have expected it to be in the USNWR standings, so they're pretty much spot on at least as to her school. And they don't seem to be too far off wrt the other schools that we investigated fully - the ones she applied to, five in all.

[JamesP81]

bttt

[SirLinksalot]

The magazine would do us a real favor listing them by the number of weirdos, flakes, commies, lesbians, homosexuals, fake Indians, atheists,& tree huggers there that are teaching at each of these schools.

This is what makes the Princeton Review a better source. It actually does that --- list the colleges according to whether there are a lot of discussions in class or not, whether schools like to party, whether schools are religious, whether students long for the days of Ronald Reagan, whether the food is good, whether students are liberal or conservative, how good the career service and placement records are, how rigorous the academics are, how satisfied the students are with the value of their education, etc., etc. and many more...

US News and World Report just does not go into that detail.

[AnAmericanMother]

I'm sure that's true in some instances, but it's kind of a self-defeating proposition to engineer a kid's life just to get into the "right" college, when all you mean by "right" is merely a socially prestigious school. That has more to do with stupid parents than the college application process -- remember that fool woman in Texas who hired a hit man to eliminate her daughter's cheerleading rival?

On the other hand, it makes sense to look for the "right" college that will (1) give your child the best possible education, not necessarily for a particular career, but for his personality, strengths, and interests; and (2) be a "good fit" in terms of philosophy, environment, and social attitudes. I see nothing wrong with parents spending time and effort to find the "right" college in THAT sense of the word!

My eldest is a bright kid - scored well on the SATs and made good grades in a tough prep school - but shy and eccentric, a hard worker but not an intuitive learner. She would sink without a trace in a big state university. She also rejected a school with a heavy Greek scene because that whole concept is antithetical to her. So she's in a very small liberal arts college with a stellar academic reputation, not a lot of PC nonsense, very much "in loco parentis" attitude, and a strong religious affiliation (even though a different church from ours). I could have moved heaven and earth and called home every favor I hold to get her in my Ivy League alma mater, but it wasn't worth it because it was the wrong school for her personally.

Did she start looking at colleges in her sophomore year, and revising her resume with college applications in mind? Of course! But, as an old lawyer friend of mine once said, there's no point in padding your resume with clubs you join just to pad your resume, "because you will be shown up for the fraud that you are!"

[Lil'freeper]

You have no guarantee of utility.

A diploma always has utility. It doesn't qualify you for everything, but it does open doors. Brand-name diplomas open more doors.

Not even math/science/engineering majors always get jobs right out of college that are exactly in line with their degree. It is a silly expectation given the market of job opportunities today. As for the cost of college these days, yes I agree it is absurd. Some schools are less expensive than others and some majors have more job opportunities than others. A prospective student who is supposedly smart enough to go to college is smart enough to think through the options.

You are an indentured peon to the university system.

I take it you didn't major in Personal Responsibility?

[AnAmericanMother]

There's an even better guide out -- it's called something like "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Colleges". I can't remember for sure, because daughter passed on her library of college application books to her younger friends.

You can't rely on just one source - you have to cast your nets wide.

But the most important thing (once you've narrowed down your choices to 5 schools or so) is to VISIT - and visit as incognito as you can. Daughter and I would arrive quietly and unannounced on the campus, dressed as much like everybody else as we could manage, and just wander around. Sit in the student union and have lunch, nose around the library stacks, park on a bench outside an open classroom door, sit under a tree and watch and listen to the people. Do they look happy and engaged? Harried? Anxious? Are they busy? Are the professors visible and interacting with the kids? We learned more in our time just hanging around than we did on the 'official' guided tours, class visits, etc. But of course those are valuable too, if only because they give you an idea of what the school finds important.

Daughter's a sophomore, and she is still VERY happy with her choice of school.

[Lil'freeper]

That has more to do with stupid parents than the college application process -- remember that fool woman in Texas who hired a hit man to eliminate her daughter's cheerleading rival?

I do! And I've met parents who had the gall to ask about the grades of their children's "rivals" at parent-teacher conferences. 'It's ok if my Johnny got a B on that test as long as Billy got a C!'

You sound like you took a reasonable, healthy approach to your eldest's college. And I know that reasonable folks like you are in the majority. However, that does not change the fact that a great deal of gamesmanship goes on in some circles.

[SirLinksalot]

Here's an interesting article from the Washington Post.

The title is : Which College Guides Are the Best

Excerpt :

"The ones I used most often were "The Best 331 Colleges" by the Princeton Review and "The Unofficial, Biased Insider's Guide to the 320 Most Interesting Colleges" by Trent Anderson and Seppy Basili of Kaplan Inc. (and as for MY potential bias, it must be said that Kaplan is a very important part of The Washington Post Co., my employer and the company in which a substantial portion of my retirement savings are invested.)

Those two books were fun to read, with jazzy writing and useful rankings of various sorts, such as Princeton Review's playful surveys of which schools were most likely to have "Dorms Like Dungeons" (the State University of New York at Buffalo, my boss's alma mater, was number one) and which tended to admit "Students Most Nostalgic for Bill Clinton" (Lewis & Clark College in Portland, Ore., led that category)."

Just FYI.

Personally, I found this guide to be the BEST OVERALL :



This guide actually profiles the colleges IN DETAIL including the students, faculty and core curriculum.

[AnAmericanMother]

Oh, we gamed the system -- WITHIN REASON.

It's that "within reason" part that is so hard to get exactly right. But if parents make sure that the kid's best interest comes first (and that the kid is the one who makes the ultimate decision) it's probably o.k., at least as o.k. as it's going to get.

My daughter's prep school has 4 full time college counselors who really earn their hay ration . . . and hubby and I let daughter and her college advisor take the lead and just helped do the legwork.

Now my NEXT kid is a different story! He's bright but not bookish at all, very athletic and outdoorsy (quite unlike No. 1) -- and he is bound and determined to join the Marine Corps straight out of school, get a tour or two under his belt, and then go to college on an ROTC scholarship and/or the GI Bill. This was his idea with a few minor nudges from parents (you don't present ideas to this one, he has to think of it himself) but on sober reflection we decided that we could go along with it! He could use the stability and order of the military, he gets to serve his country, and college would be a complete waste of time for him right now. As a mother naturally I worry about his being in harm's way . . . but when you have an active risk-taking sort of boy's boy, Iraq is probably less hazardous than Interstate 285 on a Saturday night (and I'm only half kidding).

[SirLinksalot]

Here's another interesting guide to the college guides from SLATE MAGAZINE entitled Which College Guides Are the Best ?

EXCERPT :

college search is like shopping for clothes. The entire experience varies radically depending on the tastes of the buyer. In the last 14 years, for instance, I have been through three college searches with my children. The first was easy: He had one school in mind, applied early, and got in—that quick, no-fuss shopping typical of teenage boys. The second child was more difficult. He is a golfer and a biker and announced that no matter how distinguished the institution, he would not apply to any schools where a flake of snow marred the landscape. Unfortunately, no college guides could help narrow his search—weather reports and listings of local green fees were more important to him than statistics and rankings.

......

The results, from worst to best:

The Insider's Guide to the Colleges 2006 by the Staff of the Yale Daily News, 1,017 pages, $18.99

The Yale Daily guide is the smallest and lightest of these books. It also has some of the best student quotes. A student at UC-San Diego says, "I feel like I need a megaphone and binoculars to participate in class sometimes." A Johns Hopkins University undergraduate says the dining halls are "like eating at a five-star restaurant, except the opposite." But it is also the least informative. It rarely offers more than basic data and offers little insight into details such as which schools are affordable, which schools help you survive the trauma of freshman year, or which schools have the kind of extracurricular activities you crave. It reports on just four schools in my sample and is probably useful only to applicants considering the most selective colleges. In this era, getting into schools like Yale is akin to winning the lottery. Take a look at the bigger books—you might find something you like.

Depth:16 (out of 25)

Verve: 21 (out of 25)

Detail: 15 (out of 25)

Student Perspective: 24 (out of 25)

Total: 76 (out of 100)

Peterson's Four-Year Colleges 2006 by Thomson Peterson's, 3,087 pages, $32

I have not used Peterson's before and am surprised by its structure. The front of the book has standard short descriptions with the usual data on each college, such as average SAT scores, major departments, sports, and activities. But the back of the book lists advertorials "written by admissions deans" in place of independent assessments. Perhaps these are helpful to some readers, but personally I feel duped buying a $32 book that seems to rely so heavily on subjective write-ups written by the universities themselves.

I found nothing inaccurate in the Peterson's advertorials, but I prefer to rely on more objective perspectives from outside observers.

Depth: 20

Verve: 19

Detail: 21

Student Perspective: 17

Total: 77

The College Board College Handbook 2006, 2,069 pages, $28.95

The College Board book gets major depth points for being the only guide to take community colleges seriously. It has data on more than 1,600 two-year schools, a great boon since nearly half of all U.S. undergraduates attend such colleges. Its four-year college outlines are fine, with lots of good data, but it misses some important details. Elon University, for instance, is unusual because it scores very high on the National Survey of Student Engagement—an increasingly influential measurement of which colleges teach best. But this guide does not address that. Like U.S. News and Barron's, The College Board contains all the standard numbers. But because it does not discuss details like which departments are strongest, or the differences in student interests and living styles, it's not easy to determine which school might be best for you or your child.

Depth: 24

Verve: 15

Detail: 23

Student Perspective: 18

Total: 80

U.S. News & World Report Ultimate College Guide 2005, 1,763 pages, $26.95

Blessed with remarkable data from its "America's Best Colleges" surveys, the U.S. News guide helpfully ranks schools in different categories, such as the priciest private schools, the cheapest public universities, and the best values. The guide also addresses the important issue of how well colleges retain their freshmen, with a list that ranks schools accordingly.

The individual college descriptions, however, are a bit thin. The basic data on academic and financial aid are there, but U.S. News doesn't address issues that don't fit the standard categories. For instance, the guide does not mention Ursinus College's Common Intellectual Experience course, one of the few freshman courses in the country that every student is required to take. Elon's high marks on the National Survey of Student Engagement are also ignored.

Depth: 20

Verve: 20

Detail: 22

Student Perspective: 19

Total: 81

Barron's Profiles of American Colleges 2005, 1,669 pages, $26.95

Like the U.S. News, College Board, and Peterson's guides, Barron's provides a thick clump of useful data on each college, including composition of the student body, housing options, financial aid, special programs, sports, and transfer rules, but it does not present it in an entertaining or vivid manner. I give it some perspective points for student-friendly data: It gives the exact requirements for completing a major, and it also presents a helpful list of which colleges have which majors. But it misses unusual but potentially important details, such as the progress Alcorn State has made in providing extra tutoring and other support for freshmen so that more of them are able to return for their sophomore year.

Depth: 21

Verve: 21

Detail: 23

Student Perspective: 18

Total: 83

Choosing the Right College 2005: The Whole Truth About America's Top Schools, Intercollegiate Studies Institute, 972 pages, $28

Choosing the Right College differentiates itself from the other guides in ways both good and bad. Its ideological leanings will offend many readers. It concludes that Brown "was little but a left-wing echo chamber" until some right-of-center groups were formed. And it has narrow coverage—only 125 schools, and just four (University of Chicago, Harvard, Pomona, and UC-San Diego) of the 10 on my sampling list.

But its school profiles offer many interesting details the others lack. For example, none of the other guides names specific professors who make their campuses great. The Davidson College profile identifies nine top professors in seven departments loved by students. While other guides have a generic feel, with general statements and few recent examples, Choosing the Right College is often as fresh as the latest headlines. For instance, other guides address Pomona's smog problem—an old story—but this guide covers the school's reaction to an alleged hate crime that occurred on campus in 2004.

Depth: 24

Verve: 24

Detail: 15

Student Perspective: 23

Total: 86

Fiske Guide to Colleges 2006 by Edward B. Fiske with Robert Logue, 774 pages, $22.95

The Fiske Guide is popular: Fans say the amount of information strikes the right balance—there's enough so it's useful but not unwieldy. Personally, I find the book strong on student perspective but lacking in verve and details. For instance, it says many Harvard students find "the most rewarding form of instruction is the sophomore and junior tutorial, a small-group directed study in a student's field of concentration." I have heard frequent complaints from Harvard undergraduates about these often poorly organized bull sessions.

The summaries of each profile aptly pinpoint what students may want to know about a particular school. In a profile of the University of Maryland, College Park, Fiske speaks directly to the needs of students seeking more challenging academic environs by highlighting the College Park Scholar program's classes for high-achieving admittees. It also points out that Vanderbilt's strengths in business and engineering are rare among Southern schools, which applicants may want to consider.

Depth: 22

Verve: 22

Detail: 19

Student Perspective: 23

Total: 86

The Unofficial, Biased Guide to the 331 Most Interesting Colleges 2005 by the staff of Kaplan Test Prep and Admissions, 720 pages, $19

Since the title mentions bias, this is a good time to point out that Kaplan is part of the Washington Post Co. So is Slate magazine. So am I—I've been a Washington Post reporter for 34 years. But I have tried to be objective, and the Unofficial, Biased Guide deserves high marks. It helpfully exposes students' real feelings about issues. For instance, some Dickinson College students find the campus "a little too close for comfort, and grow tired of seeing the same people, day in and day out." A junior at Providence College says, "Homework is not necessary for a solid grade in my classes."

Kaplan admissions experts Trent Anderson and Seppy Basili used to brighten the volume with wry judgments of each school. An "Experts Say" box has replaced their insight, but the editors have preserved some of their best lines. On Ithaca College: "Get ready to spend four years tripping over Cornell students."

Depth: 23

Verve: 23

Detail: 20

Student Perspective: 23

Total: 89

The Best 361 Colleges 2006 by the Princeton Review, 810 pages, $21.95

The Best 361 Colleges takes a refreshingly playful approach—a good read for someone who knows little about colleges. I like the mischief-making rankings, based on student surveys of which college are most likely to have "Dorms Like Dungeons" or "Students Most Nostalgic for Bill Clinton." The profiles are also lively and full of student quotes—one freshman at Kenyon remarks, "It is odd for me, as a 4.0-plus high-school student, to hope for a C in my science classes"; a West Point cadet comments that students "get graded on how well they beat up their classmates." It offers "The Inside Word," too, a quick and helpful summary of what makes each school unique. Students also get the all-important sense of whether they have a chance at acceptance.

By providing the most complete and colorful feel for each school, The Best 361 Colleges comes closer than any other guide to putting you on each campus. And when it's not always possible to visit each and every school in person, what more can you ask for?

Depth: 23

Verve: 24

Detail: 20

Student Perspective: 23

Total: 90

[AnAmericanMother]

Think we had an earlier edition of that one, it looks familiar.

There was also a guide that focussed on the classical "liberal arts education", and talked about schools that retain a core curriculum and require well-rounded study. My daughter's school rates high in that way, and I had talked up the value of the old "trivium and quadrivium" to her.

[AnAmericanMother]

The second child was more difficult. He is a golfer and a biker and announced that no matter how distinguished the institution, he would not apply to any schools where a flake of snow marred the landscape.

There's an online service (you have to sign up through your school) called collegeboard.com, that has a very complicated and detailed search engine to narrow your search to colleges that meet all sorts of odd requirements -- the usual stuff like size, location, selectivity, and more unusual stats like percentage of students that pledge a frat or state a religious affiliation. Of course for records of snowfall in a particular location, weather.com would probably do the job!

That is a really neat rating list, btw. For that sort of evaluation the brain of the college counselor gives a quick short cut! We found her very, very helpful, because that's what she does all day. It was also interesting because she had a quiet sort of pipeline to the schools' admissions offices, and was able to get some feedback for us in a very general way. She got calls from people in admissions at two of the schools (as it turns out daughter's first and second choice) urging her to apply (and later in the process, to attend). They didn't want her badly enough to offer any money though! < g >

[geezerwheezer]

Your family must have jobs, and that is why you weren’t offered $$$. My daughter, to prove a point, sent 2 applications with identical stats, but on one she put that she was a minority. She was pestered to death by that school but ignored by the same school under her real name. It was quite amazing. She wrote her senior thesis on this and was really enlightened by wha she witnessed.

[SirLinksalot]

My daughter, to prove a point, sent 2 applications with identical stats, but on one she put that she was a minority.

Care to share with us the name of that school just for our edification ?