Posted on 09/10/2007 10:15:29 PM PDT by Coleus
Those deep thinkers known as the neoconservatives like to make comparisons between the so-called "war on terror" and World War II. Very well then, here's a comparison. Six years after the attack on Pearl Harbor, Adolf Hitler had already been dead and gone for 2 1/2 years. By that time, the United States had raised and trained a military of 16 million. By Dec. 7, 1947, much of that force had been disbanded because the enemy had been so thoroughly defeated.
But today, six years after the in cident that began the war on terror, Osama bin Laden is alive and kicking. As for al Qaeda, it is no longer hiding in the hills of Afghanistan but instead is on the verge of taking over Iraq -- at least in the fevered minds of some neocons. Meanwhile, a commission reported the other day that it will take an additional 12 to 18 months to complete the training of an Iraqi secu rity force that is one-50th the size of the forces the U.S. trained in World War II.
That highlights the true comparison between the war on terror and World War II. In World War II, we fought a total war against specific enemies. But in the aftermath of 9/11, George W. Bush embarked on war against one abstraction, terror, in favor of another abstraction, democracy.
"Democracy is like terrorism," says retired Gen. William Odom. "It's a sort of propaganda word that leads you into stupid policies." Stupid policies like invading Iraq, that is. Odom, who now teaches political science at Yale, has termed the Iraq war the single greatest strategic disaster in U.S. military history. But imagine if instead of declaring a vague war on terror Bush had declared a specific war on al Qaeda.
(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...
“Their” war?
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
This kind of mindless navel-gazing, done to punch a clock, is why journalism is dying a rapid death.
“It’s a sort of propaganda word that leads you into stupid policies.”
—
A policy like reading the Star Ledger!
The mind boggles at this stupidity.....
As for al Qaeda, it is no longer hiding in the hills of Afghanistan but instead is on the verge of taking over Iraq -- at least in the fevered minds of some neocons.
Sounds like Munshine is willing to put up with a much higher body count in return for a marginally shorter war.
I’m tired of the neo-con label.
It don’t matter what I think though,...they gonna keep using it.
They = the pseudo-intellectuals that make up 99-9/10 of the left wingers.
Ain’t a one of em ever had an original thought.
Can't even bring himself to name that day... Dishonest to the core... The simple truth is that that "incident" was much more destructive than the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - and on civilians no less... So the biggest difference between now and then isn't how Bush responded but how the American people responded...
Anybody have a quick list of how many nations the allies invaded and or occupied before the war was over?
Did this guy forget that we currently have a volunteer military. WWII was won with the a draft that deferred very few individuals.
The number one problem with the DEMons. Democracy is simply an abstraction.
Understand this idiot wants us to institute the draft, ration all materials including food, switch all manufacturing to supplying the war, and once we have a bunch of bombers built begin unrestricted carpet bombing of population centers?
Notice how they have begun their defense of the nut-job in Iran?
He is their next hope of the elimination of the State of Israel. Above all, the left and their fellow travelers on the right want Israel gone for a "stable" ME.
The problem is that we didn’t run all the traitors to ground in the first year.
WOW! This guy went from 0 to stupid in 3.0 sec and did a head-on into the imbecile wall.
I forgot. Maybe we should also invade nuclear Pakistan!
Americans are asking, "How will we fight and win this war?''
We will direct every resource at our command--every means of diplomacy, every tool of intelligence, every instrument of law enforcement, every financial influence, and every necessary weapon of war--to the destruction and to the defeat of the global terror network.
Now, this war will not be like the war against Iraq a decade ago, with a decisive liberation of territory and a swift conclusion. It will not look like the air war above Kosovo two years ago, where no ground troops were used and not a single American was lost in combat.
Our response involves far more than instant retaliation and isolated strikes. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign unlike any other we have ever seen. It may include dramatic strikes visible on TV and covert operations secret even in success.
We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place until there is no refuge or no rest.
And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation in every region now has a decision to make: Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists.
From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime. Our nation has been put on notice, we're not immune from attack. We will take defensive measures against terrorism to protect Americans.
He will lead, oversee and coordinate a comprehensive national strategy to safeguard our country against terrorism and respond to any attacks that may come.
These measures are essential. The only way to defeat terrorism as a threat to our way of life is to stop it, eliminate it and destroy it where it grows.
Many will be involved in this effort, from FBI agents, to intelligence operatives, to the reservists we have called to active duty. All deserve our thanks, and all have our prayers.
And tonight a few miles from the damaged Pentagon, I have a message for our military: Be ready. I have called the armed forces to alert, and there is a reason.
The hour is coming when America will act, and you will make us proud.
This is not, however, just America's fight. And what is at stake is not just America's freedom.
This is the world's fight. This is civilization's fight. This is the fight of all who believe in progress and pluralism, tolerance and freedom.
Americans are asking, ``What is expected of us?'' I ask you to live your lives and hug your children. I know many citizens have fears tonight, and I ask you to be calm and resolute, even in the face of a continuing threat. I ask you to uphold the values of America and remember why so many have come here. We're in a fight for our principles, and our first responsibility is to live by them. No one should be singled out for unfair treatment or unkind words because of their ethnic background or religious faith.
And finally, please continue praying for the victims of terror and their families, for those in uniform and for our great country. Prayer has comforted us in sorrow and will help strengthen us for the journey ahead.
Tonight we face new and sudden national challenges. We will come together to improve air safety, to dramatically expand the number of air marshals on domestic flights and take new measures to prevent hijacking. We will come together to promote stability and keep our airlines flying with direct assistance during this emergency. We will come together to give law enforcement the additional tools it needs to track down terror here at home. We will come together to strengthen our intelligence capabilities to know the plans of terrorists before they act and to find them before they strike. We will come together to take active steps that strengthen America's economy and put our people back to work. Tonight, we welcome two leaders who embody the extraordinary spirit of all New Yorkers, Governor George Pataki and Mayor Rudolph Giuliani. As a symbol of America's resolve, my administration will work with Congress and these two leaders to show the world that we will rebuild New York City.
After all that has just passed, all the lives taken and all the possibilities and hopes that died with them, it is natural to wonder if America's future is one of fear. Some speak of an age of terror. I know there are struggles ahead and dangers to face. But this country will define our times, not be defined by them.
As long as the United States of America is determined and strong, this will not be an age of terror. This will be an age of liberty here and across the world. Great harm has been done to us. We have suffered great loss. And in our grief and anger we have found our mission and our moment. Freedom and fear are at war. The advance of human freedom, the great achievement of our time and the great hope of every time, now depends on us. Our nation, this generation, will lift the dark threat of violence from our people and our future. We will rally the world to this cause by our efforts, by our courage. We will not tire, we will not falter and we will not fail.
It is my hope that in the months and years ahead life will return almost to normal. We'll go back to our lives and routines and that is good.
Even grief recedes with time and grace. But our resolve must not pass. Each of us will remember what happened that day and to whom it happened. We will remember the moment the news came, where we were and what we were doing.
Some will remember an image of a fire or story or rescue. Some will carry memories of a face and a voice gone forever. And I will carry this. It is the police shield of a man named George Howard who died at the World Trade Center trying to save others. It was given to me by his mom, Arlene (ph), as a proud memorial to her son. It is my reminder of lives that ended and a task that does not end.
I will not forget the wound to our country and those who inflicted it. I will not yield, I will not rest, I will not relent in waging this struggle for freedom and security for the American people. The course of this conflict is not known, yet its outcome is certain. Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty, have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them. Fellow citizens, we'll meet violence with patient justice, assured of the rightness of our cause and confident of the victories to come. In all that lies before us, may God grant us wisdom and may he watch over the United States of America. Thank you.
Brother...they misuse the term left and right (pun intended}
I am a Neo-con....the correct definition being that I am a former liberal...I am a “new conservative”...have been since about the time bill clinton took office ..
You have to understand why it (to the left) is such an insult...
Those of us who have rejected the church humanism stand apostate from their religion.....we have committed the ultimate sin....anything we say is heresy...
They hate us most...because we know them best...
As the shadow knows the evil that lurks in a mans heart.....we know them....
Did Charles Martel get labeled a ‘neocon’? In the 1400 years of smacking down Islam, did the commanders get ham-stringed by being ‘neocons’? I propose a new label - PaleoCrusaders.
Good post.
Well, Mr. Munshine, we dropped a couple of atom bombs on Japan which saved millions of lives, both American and Japanese. We could do that here to Syria and Iran and it certainly would end the war quickly.
Germany was largely defeated by Russian armor (often fueled and provided by us) with a secondary attack from the West.
We lost over 450,000 men during WWII, is that the kind of war you are advocating, Mr. Munshine?
There seems to be a lot of versions of what a neo-con is. I like your definition the best. “new conservative” Because that is what it should mean.
Simply by putting some sort of absurd time line on when we are supposed to have defeated militant Islam, Mulshine reveals himself as thoroughly ignorant not only about who we’re fighting but about military matters. I mean how does one calculate how long a war should take? If Hitler hadn’t attacked Russia, I guarantee you WWII would have taken much longer. This guy is really an ignoramus.
Only the insane can hold such a view in public.
Nothing that could have been done six years ago can't just as easily be done today. Perhaps more so.
Invade Saudi Arabia; Seize their oil fields and hold them for decades if necessary until just indemnification has been achieved. Then follow with Iraq, Pakistan and any other muslim country who wished to join the creators/supporters of al-Qaeda. Using any and all tools at our disposal, without mercy or hesitation.
The Soviets, the French and anyone else who wished to object could come to muslim hell and join the game, until it was resolved somehow. But all that is speculative and unreal until actually undertaken.
Would the author of this piece approve of that?
Or is his tiny universe cicumscribed by infantile labels, speculations and alternative universes?
It’s what it does mean...not should mean...
Just like libs call the killing of a fetus “choice”..
Just becuase they misuse a word doesnt change the meaning...
That is how libs like to change the frame of the debate by playing fast and loose with definitions...
Just like “new direction” means surrender...
The problem is the “incident” began in 1979 with the takeover of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran. That was followed by a number of other “incidents” that we did nothing to avenge. But we all know that “liberal” history began the day that George W. Bush was sworn into office in January 2001.
"That would scare the Saudis to death," said Odom. "It would also help us with the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The Iranians don't like either."
So Odom thinks the POTUS should be Monty Hall. I guess Odom missed the history lesson in which Mao Zedong executed millions of people in his own sphere. OTOH, Iran is actively plotting and advocating genocide of Israelis and the destruction of the USA.
When it all comes down to it, each of these alternative strategies to fighting terror has one thing in common: To hell with Israel. Ron Paul won't say it, and neither will Odom or clowns like Mulshine, whoever he is, but the more honest ones who flesh out their strategies (like Pat Buchanan) do.
Exactly. Mr. Mulshine is better than you or me, and has no part in this dirty business.
Not just better than us, far better, and if you don’t believe it ask him.
Oh Yeah? so why has noboby seen him for three years?
And don't cite that patently forged tape from last week, that is a fake, which reinforces the likelihood that he is dead.
what ever happened to those newspaper and magazine accounts of the military fighting bands and individual enemies for years after the ‘end’ of the second world war?
What the hell did Hitler have to do with the "incident" at Pearl Harbor. These dimwits can't even get their analogies correct. Not only did Hirohito live, but we kept him in office...even if it was just ceremonial.
Of course, such a proper analogy simply doesn't serve their agenda.
the author sounds like a moron. Dees he mention that OBL is still alive nearly 10 years after declaring war on America or did he forget that info? Slime balls everywhere.
I'm of the opinion that 9-11 called for exactly such a response! Target wahabi islam as the enemy, rally the resources and entire will of the nation while the attack was fresh in everyone's mind, and use overwhelming force to utterly vanquish the bastards.
Instead we got "Islam is peace" and Rumsfeld's downsized military, with many now being sent back a fourth time to the combat theater.
I despise the democrats, a party which is invested in defeat. But I'm also ticked off that President Bush executed the response to 9/11 in such a way that 90% of the USA has been iPodding their way through the last 6 years.
Six years after the attack on Pearl Harbor, Adolf Hitler had already been dead and gone for 2 1/2 years. By that time, the United States had raised and trained a military of 16 million. By Dec. 7, 1947, much of that force had been disbanded because the enemy had been so thoroughly defeated. But today, six years after the in cident that began the war on terror, Osama bin Laden is alive and kicking. As for al Qaeda, it is no longer hiding in the hills of Afghanistan but instead is on the verge of taking over Iraq -- at least in the fevered minds of some neocons. Meanwhile, a commission reported the other day that it will take an additional 12 to 18 months to complete the training of an Iraqi secu rity force that is one-50th the size of the forces the U.S. trained in World War II.Either I`m missing something.... or someone has forgotten to add the the population statistics/percentage of the 2 countries... and size... MJ
Iraq is a PC war complete with an ethereal guerrilla insurgency.
BUMP
My view is that the U.S. should be so decisive in its responses as to be fearsome, which is the only thing that impresses savages. After 9-11 the target should have been OBL and his aiders and abettors, using whatever it takes: air strikes, special forces, CIA, economic pressure, you name it. If he is in Pakistan, we should be in Pakistan. Saudi Arabia, we're there. Swift and merciless.
Iraq was an error, IMO, and I think we should leave, but with a big stick, and only after kicking al Qaeda's @ss. Anything less would be appeasement in the eyes of Arabs.
Re: Islam, our PC is killing us. Because it has stated objectives that threaten free societies, immigration from Muslim countries should be kept to a minimum. Specific groups that carry out aggressive acts against the US, like al Q, should be punished in the same way.
Hey Mulshine! Sixty years after Hitler’s death, there are still UK and US troops, and a hell of a lot of tanks, in Germany. How’s that for a historical comparison?
“Sounds like Munshine is willing to put up with a much higher body count in return for a marginally shorter war.”
Along with reinstating the draft to build up his reported army of 16 million trained solders.
I love it when they bring up WWII. As if they have the b@lls to come together as a county and bring down a brutal dictator. Oh, yeah... they DON’T!
The war against Islamofascism is a different conflict, in a different place, against different enemies, using different means. The strategy and tactics of the World War II (or WW I, the Spanish-American War, the War Between the States, etc.) are unlikely to succeed.
Thought you’d like this quote.
The avoidance of reality by the cooking up of gimmicky catch-phrases is by no means exclusively European, but “brain circulation rather than brain drain” is a prize example of this art form none the less. - John Derbyshire
Excellent point! Adolf Hitler never invaded the U.S., but apparently it was OK with Mulshine that the Americans sacrificed thousands to get him. Yet, he cites a retired general who says the U.S. should "make a deal with Iran" and genocide advocate Ahmedinejad. Hmmmm...kinda sounds like what Neville Chamberlain did, doesn't it?
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