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Century Village unit criticized for spending $11,000 to alter elevator for Sabbath
Sun-Sentinal.com ^ | 08/29/07 | Joe Kollin

Posted on 08/30/2007 9:43:52 AM PDT by MotleyGirl70

click here to read article


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To: hlmencken3
Every FR thread mentioning Jews or Israel seems to end up bashing Jews and demanding their conversion.

What would be the point of the original article at all except to mock religious Jews.

You realize how silly and paranoid you sound.

61 posted on 08/30/2007 12:42:20 PM PDT by MotleyGirl70
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To: Notary Sojac
On the Sabbath, they are not allowed to do anything that would create energy, such as drive a car, turn on a light or push an elevator button.

Can a Jewish Freeper explain this to me? The energy to run the elevator is being expended whether one pushes the button or not. Seems to me that the only way to strictly respect the Sabbath is to take the stairs.

On the Sabbath, they are not allowed to violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics by creating energy. ;-)

The sentence was poorly worded.

But to try to help:

Although I am not Jewish, growing up in Miami, just by osmosis, I am culturally semi-Jewish and I have had to explain to Reform Jews on the West Coast what a Shabbat Elevator is. My sister owns a condo in Miami Beach in a building that has one.

On the Sabbath, you are not allowed to do "labors" and it all gets very complicated but the bottom line is that you can not "use" an elevator.

But.....If an elevator just happens to open it's doors automatically through no action of yours and you happen to walk into it and it happens to go up to your floor and open the doors by itself and you happen to walk out, you did not "use" that elevator, did you?

Do not try to answer that. No mater what your answer is, you will have some Jews explaining to you why you were wrong.

That comes under the Ask Five Jews a Question and You Get Ten Answers Rule.

The Shabbat Elevator and other Sabbath Subterfuges

I don't try to explain it. I just accept it and that is what makes traditional Jewish culture part of "home" for me ......... but not West Coast Reform Jewish culture ...... invoking "your Karma" at a West Coast Passover Seder is just too weird for me which is why my Sephardi friend thinks I am more traditionally "Jewish" than some of the Reform Jews out here on the West Coast.

62 posted on 08/30/2007 12:46:20 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: 1st-P-In-The-Pod; 2ndDivisionVet; A_Conservative_in_Cambridge; af_vet_rr; agrace; Aiko; ...
FReepMail to be added or removed from this pro-Israel/Judaic/Russian Jewry ping list.

Warning! This is a high-volume ping list.

63 posted on 08/30/2007 12:48:00 PM PDT by Alouette (Vicious Babushka)
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To: MotleyGirl70
Most of the 56 owners in Berkshire E are Orthodox Jews

I don't understand what the problem is. They are the owners, let them install a "Shabbos elevator."

64 posted on 08/30/2007 12:51:10 PM PDT by Alouette (Vicious Babushka)
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To: MotleyGirl70

After reading the article, I see that two cranky anti-religious semi-residents are complaining.

If they hate Jews and Judaism so much, why the hell did they move into a building where everyone else is Shomer Shabbos?


65 posted on 08/30/2007 12:53:54 PM PDT by Alouette (Vicious Babushka)
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To: Alouette

The minority of less observant (and a few tight wads on the 1st and 2nd floor) are pissed about the $11,000.

Life in a democracy. They don’t like it; they can move back to Brooklyn.


66 posted on 08/30/2007 12:55:26 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Fred Thompson)
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To: freedom9
But the day is to be a day to enjoyed.

I do enjoy the Sabbath. It has its rituals and its restrictions, but it also frees us from the rituals and the restrictions of the rest of the week.

I like not having to answer the phone, and to read a book instead of going on the computer.

67 posted on 08/30/2007 12:58:21 PM PDT by Alouette (Vicious Babushka)
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To: Alouette
I don't understand what the problem is. They are the owners, let them install a "Shabbos elevator."

I agree. Plus, the article was informative (for me at least) because I didn't know this:

On the Sabbath, they are not allowed to do anything that would create energy, such as drive a car, turn on a light or push an elevator button.

Now I know.

68 posted on 08/30/2007 1:01:11 PM PDT by MotleyGirl70
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To: Old Professer

Yes....pretty sure.


69 posted on 08/30/2007 1:03:16 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy
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To: Old Professer

Yes....pretty sure.


70 posted on 08/30/2007 1:03:31 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy
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To: MotleyGirl70
On the Sabbath, they are not allowed to do anything that would create energy

Create energy? Hmmm. . .wouldn't the elevator moving at all "create energy"?

Weirdness.

71 posted on 08/30/2007 1:05:27 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: JOHN ADAMS

ahhh...

so that explains jewish people giving quarters to non-jews to push the button for them.


72 posted on 08/30/2007 1:12:53 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: tubasonum
This is all cheating! Either take the steps or stop pretending you are an Orthodox Jew.

Wouldn't taking the stairs be a lot more work than pushing a button? Or is the prohibition against working on the Sabbath less 'weighty' than some of the other restrictions I've seen mentioned on the thread as possible reasons for requiring a special elevator?

73 posted on 08/30/2007 1:13:01 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: MotleyGirl70

however it is now going to open and close on ALL the floors to accomodate ONE religion.

Why could they not have put a motion sensor or a simple hand waive thing.


74 posted on 08/30/2007 1:15:14 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Polybius
Creative labor IS prohibited. Technically any work that involves creating something or the converse extinguishing something. Everything else not forbidden would therefore be allowed on Shabbat.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

75 posted on 08/30/2007 1:19:26 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: MEGoody
You can walk since as its understood, its creation from WITHIN you. Its external acts of creation from WITHOUT, that require another means of coming into being, that can't be done on the Shabbat because they are not intrinsic acts of creation.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

76 posted on 08/30/2007 1:22:20 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: wideawake

It’s because riding the bus involves a commercial transaction, which isn’t allowed. To keep it pure they shouldn’t even handle money (or money substitutes) on Shabbos.


77 posted on 08/30/2007 1:29:48 PM PDT by discostu (indecision may or may not be my biggest problem)
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To: BfloGuy; Cagey; Larry Lucido
Jerry Seinfeld’s dad would have finessed this.

I don't think so; the Del Boca Vista Condo Association took Morty Seinfeld down like Nixon. Mrs. Choate changed her vote to impeach Morty because she realized Jerry stole her Schnitzer's marble rye when she was in NY City.

78 posted on 08/30/2007 1:35:12 PM PDT by MotleyGirl70
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To: discostu
It’s because riding the bus involves a commercial transaction

Orthodox families in Queens get catered meals sent to their homes on Shabbos which have been prepaid.

Buses take prepaid cards. I don't see the difference.

79 posted on 08/30/2007 1:35:53 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: goldstategop
Creative labor IS prohibited.

"Creative" as defined by the 39 categories of labor needed for the construction of the Tabernacle:

Planting
Plowing
Reaping
Binding sheaves
Threshing
Winnowing
Selecting
Grinding
Sifting
Kneading
Baking
Shearing wool
Washing wool
Beating wool
Dyeing
Spinning
Weaving
Making two loops
Weaving at least two threads
Separating two threads
Tying
Untying
Sewing at least two stitches
Tearing for the purpose of sewing
Trapping
Slaughtering
Flaying
Salting meat
Curing hide
Scraping hide
Cutting hide into pieces
Writing two or more letters
Erasing
Building
Tearing something down
Extinguishing a fire
Igniting a fire
Applying the finishing touch
Transferring between domains

Electricity (and therefore elevators) come under the "Igniting a Fire" category.

80 posted on 08/30/2007 1:43:28 PM PDT by Polybius
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