Posted on 08/20/2007 8:12:14 AM PDT by Count of Monte Logan
Now I'm not a supporter of Mitt Romney, however I do think he deserves an equal chance to be elected President without being discriminated against. I would want Mitt to lose perhaps to Fred Thompson or Rudi, but Mitt should be given the chance to lose fairly, not by unfairly targetting his religion. Hindu, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim (i.e., Wafa Sultan is an example of a Muslim woman braver than any of us in the War on Terror), etc. Give each man or woman a fair chance as individuals... that's what the US consistution and this forum is all about.
I guess in defense of Mitt from that perspective, here's a 1 minute video I made that kind of illustrates what I think is more the essence of what Mitt and is family are as Christians. After hitting the link, press Free at bottom, then enter the visual check chars here for free Rapidshare server link and hit download to get it.
http://rapidshare.com/files/37385440/05_Light_Inspiration.mpg.html
people have the right to vote against a guy for any reason, shoe color, religion, flipping a coin. its their vote. romney seems phony to me.
Yes they do, but if you vote against someone because he is black or has a certain religion, that is discrimination.
I don’t trust Mitt with my guns. For that reason alone I will never vote for him. Add to that his phony persona and he’s off of my list. His religion would never have been an issue with me.
In any forum with this many members, there are bound to be occasional thoughtless comments. But I certainly don’t get the impression that most Freepers are primarily concerned about Romney being a Mormon.
Usually the issue comes up because some left-wing media source has raised it, because they want to torpedo him, and that is the primary reason why it is discussed at all. The same is true of left-wing hit pieces about the other Republican candidates.
The real question with Romney is whether he can be trusted to mean what he says, and whether his record supports his current campaign statements.
After all, there are all sorts of Mormons, including bad Mormons, just as there are bad Catholics. Harry Reid and Teddy Kennedy spring to mind. Just because Romney is a Mormon doesn’t mean either that he would be a good or a bad candidate. You have to look at the man, his record, and his statements, as well as the Mormon position on such questions as abortion.
Well shucks, a part of me can’t help but find amusement in the way the MSM develops a sudden obsession with religious denominational minutiae every four years. Like clockwork, they try to exploit the “how-many-angels-can-dance-on-the-head-of-a-pin” differences between the churches and restart the wars of yore. MSM interviewers conducting republican debates throw out questions of foreign policy, military, economic matters, etc. in order to restage “Inherit the Wind.” Does anyone remember how the press took time out from kicking catholics, and developed a sudden solicitousness for them (for a few weeks) after candidate George W. Bush gave a speech at Bob Jones University in ‘99?
Why is it any of your business why someone chooses to vote for or against any candidate?
color of skin, religion, etc. It’s morally wrong to vote on that basis.. just as it is to exclude the vote from someone on that basis.
What is the music you use in that video?
I consider the Church of Christ a cult, but I’m planning to vote for Fred.
Pictures at An Exhibition
I think it’s not occasional, but a real problem among many conservatives.. particulary social conservatives.. targetting Mormons in this way. I have found it alot on this forum too.. which is a shame.
the essence of what Mitt and [h]is family are as Christians.
***Oh, good, I guess that settles it then. Mitt is a christian — he believes that Jesus is God.
Mitt does believe that Jesus is God.
NO, he does not.
Of course he does. Mormons believe that Jesus and Jehovah of the Bible are the same personage.
Mitt should be given the chance, not unfairly targetting his religion.
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Not widely reported that Harry ‘the surge’ is also a mormon, but being the majority dRat in the Senate, it seems off limits.
You are confused. Being black is a physical trait. Your religion is your intellectual and moral free choice.
Would you vote for a Satanist? Would you vote for a sun worshiper?
Maybe you would, but I would never put the lives of our military in the hands of someone who picks a belief system that is anti-woman or shows a low moral character or flawed intellect.
Religious choice is the most important and revealing measure of a man.
Mitt will stand or fall on his rercord in public office. That record is clear. As a Christian myself, his religious beliefs are inconsequential to me.
This LDS “poor me, I”m being persecuted due to my religion” attitude of some of his supporters, however, is getting tedious.
It can get a little complicated. But in general, the principle is you should not discriminate against someone based on their religion. You certainly would not want to exclude any man or woman from voting based on their relgion right? It’s pretty much the same issue on both sides I think.
Of course it is. That's exactly why the Founders prohibited religious tests for office.
I don’t support him. I do think he deserves an equal chance.
Great post.
Yes good point. As long as it’s just one of many decision factors, certainly that’s not discrimination.
On what basis would you discriminate to make your choice?
Harry Reid is an embarrassment to any religion he is linked to.
“Are you saying people should not be able to weigh their religious beleifs when choosing a candidate?”
Mitt is applying for a job, this is the interview process. Next time you are looking for work, would you support your future boss using your religion to decide if they want to hire you or not?
You sure? Doesn’t sound like that to me.
That’s what popped into my mind. I haven’t listened to it in years, thought, so maybe I’m wrong.
That depends on the employer. You should ask, "If you are looking for Federal employment, would you....etc."
Mormons vote for evangelicals, protestants, and catholics all the time for political office. No reason I can think of not to return the favor.
I would not vote, however, for a Muslim. Their objective is to rule the world by means of violence and forced conversion to their faith..
Christians believe: Jesus is the eternal Son. He is second person of the Trinity. He has two natures. He is God in flesh and man (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2;9) and the creator of all things (Col. 1:15-17)
Mormo’s: Jesus is the literal spirit-brother of Lucifer, a creation. (Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15)
Would it be morally wrong for me to not vote for a Muslim or a Satanist?
Not equating Mormonism with either one of those religions...but your argument is weak.
ROFLOL!!
The “no religious test” clause is a restriction upon the federal government, not individual freedom.
Amen, brother!
>>Mitt will stand or fall on his rercord in public office. That record is clear. As a Christian myself, his religious beliefs are inconsequential to me.
This LDS “poor me, I”m being persecuted due to my religion” attitude of some of his supporters, however, is getting tedious.<<
And even to me as a non-Mormon, the attacks on Mormons are also getting tedious. It would be nice to see all sides get back to looking at Romney as to whether he is a sincere, qualified person with the right policies.
It’s a problem on FR. All you have to do is look at some of the Romney threads and it is the same posters, ad nauseum.
The funny thing is, many of the vehement anti-Romney posts are at times so loony they lose any sense of credibility.
For the record, I’m Catholic (with a capital C). I like Duncan Hunter, but will support whomever wins the Republican nomination.
Right now, of the front runners, Guiliani, McCain and Romney, Romney is the best, imho.
We believe that Jesus is literally and physically the son of the God the Father, just the same as we are children of our own earthly fathers. His divine parentage when he was here in the flesh is what allowed him to lay down his life and take it up again. No one has ever said exactly how that process of parentage occurred. The Book of Mormon says that Mary was “carried away in the Spirit.”
We believe that all of us are spirit brothers and sisters, because God the Father is the father of all our spirits, including Lucifer and the portion of the host of heaven that chose to follow him instead of the Savior. Jesus was the only physical Son of the Father the “Only Begotten Son,” as the Bible repeatedly says. What does “begotten” mean to you?
We don’t believe the Nicene Creed, it’s true. But, so what? We believe that, in the Biblical verses where Jesus says that he and the Father are “one,” he was speaking figuratively, just as He did just prior to His crucifixion, in His great intercessory prayer, when he was praying for His followers, and stated, “Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as though, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou has sent me. And the the glory which thous gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one. . . .”
I think there are legitimate considerations relating to religion which would enter into the selection of political leaders. There would certainly be concerns about whether a Muslim believed in the abolition of the separation of church and state, and the imposition of Islam by force. Not all Muslims believe that. I know people who have risked their lives in governments, like the one in Algeria, that have fought to remain secular in the face of Islamist extremism.
But Mormons have always believed in religious freedom, for ourselves and everyone else, and in separation of church and state and “rendering unto Caesar” and being good citizens under the law, wherever we live. Those
principles have been part of our Articles of Faith since the founding of our church.
I just don’t see how our beliefs about the nature of the Godhead affect anyone but us.
All the mormons I worked with in the military were good soldiers and solid patriots. I’m sure there are some thieves and charlatans among the mormons like with any group.
Voting is about discrimination ... that’s the point. Its about selecting the candidate which you believe best represents you, your beliefs and your opinions.
I won’t vote for Hillary because she’s a feminist and a certifiable wacko, I won’t vote for Edwards for a host of reasons, I doubt I’d ever vote for a Muslim ... and I’m less likely to vote for Romney in the primary because he’s a mormon (I’d vote for him in the GE).
All other things being equal (which they rarely are), I’d rather vote for someone that shares my religious beliefs - so, presuming both Romney and Thompson take conservative positions on issues, Thompson is simply more likely to get my vote.
I don’t think that’s an unreasonable position.
H
Is it Pictures at An Exhibition?
>> Right now, of the front runners, Guiliani, McCain and Romney, Romney is the best, imho.
On what planet is John McCain still a frontrunner, and Fred Thompson nowhere to be seen? Thompson is polling 1st or 2nd in most polls (even before officially declaring).
And - of the actual frontrunners ... Giuliani, Romney and Thompson ... Thompson is the best, “imho”.
H
i don’t see how that relates to the question of whether people should be able to vote based on religion. would you like to be prohibited from considering your protestant view point should a muslim or satanist or islamist run?
I think you should be allowed to use whatever viewpoint you wish in making your decision about voting....
The only one I can decide for is me.
Let’s says someone decides on using a racist or a sexist viewpoint in not voting for Osama bin Obama or Hillary. They are allowed to do that.
However, once they make public their rationale, then they shouldn’t be surprised at any public condemnation of their reasoning.
In your case, don’t vote for Romney for whatever reason. However, as soon as you share any reasoning based on a religious view, don’t be surprised if some consider it to be bigoted.
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