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The Red State - Slave State Connection is All Too Real
Blackamericaweb.com ^ | 11-16-04 | Unknown

Posted on 08/13/2007 10:27:22 PM PDT by BnBlFlag

Commentary: The Red State-Slave State Connection is all too Real Commentary: The Red State-Slave State Connection is all too Real Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 By:

Last week while I was up at Harvard University meeting with black columnists from around the country, including several of my BlackAmericaWeb.com colleagues, Michael Dawson took me to school with his map that shows the overlap between Republican red states and the old Confederacy and slave-friendly territories. Dawson is a professor of government and Afro-American studies who specializes in the ways that race and politics intersect.

I was sold. His map spoke to the things you can’t help but notice when you live in a red state like Alabama – especially if you’re black.

Things like pickup trucks with gun racks and Confederate flag bumper stickers. White teens wearing the Confederate flag on their T-shirts. Statues memorializing old Confederate leaders like Nathan Bedford Forrest. Commemorations of the Confederate dead by state officials, especially speeches in which they maintain that the Civil War – or, as some of them might say, the War Between the States or the War of Northern Aggression – was fought over state’s rights, not slavery. And predominantly, the people who espouse these things in the red states are white Republicans.

Because Dawson’s map rings so true to me, I expected to hear Alabama’s lone black congressman, Artur Davis of Birmingham, echo his sentiments. “I’m not persuaded by that analysis,” said Davis, a Democrat, during our phone interview last week.

My jaw dropped. Davis is a sharp brother, himself a Harvard grad, who has been dedicated to addressing issues affecting poor blacks in our state. I just knew he’d agree with the map analysis.

Sure, race still influences our politics, Davis explained. However, he believes that cultural conservatism, not race, is the pivotal issue in red states.

“We’ve got to find a way to talk to fiscally and culturally conservative values,” he said. “We have to find a way to move to the center.”

And for Davis, that means that his fellow Democrats and their progressive supporters should move away from advocating for gay marriage, for example. “Americans are opposed to discrimination against homosexuals,” he said. “Where people part company is on the very specific institution of marriage.”

Davis would rather see his party advocate for tolerance of gays. Thurgood Marshall didn’t go to court to argue for lifting the ban on interracial marriage but against separate and unequal schools.

With states erecting gay marriage bans like Christmas trees and a U.S. Supreme Court that is bound to get more conservative in the next four years, Davis wants Democrats and progressives to be pragmatic.

“The black community had to pick and choose its battles,” Davis said. “The gay community will have to do the same.”

Davis’ point of view has merit, though it sounds like the “slow down” argument Dr. King and other civil rights leaders used to hear from black and white leaders advocating caution on civil rights. Still, his analysis of the red state mentality is very accurate and deserves consideration, even though it’s incomplete.

Alabamans just elected a candidate to our state Supreme Court who openly cavorts with rebel flag-waving neo-Confederates. And in 2000, the final vote to remove a ban on interracial marriage from our state constitution – a ban which had been rendered null and void by the U.S. Supreme Court 33 years before – broke down to a shamefully close 60 percent to 40 percent. That’s barely passing in my book, especially since removing it was supposed to be our opportunity to showcase a new Alabama. Maybe we could, if we could ever get rid of the old Alabama.

One of my neighbors, who had barely spoken to me, one day knocked on my door and asked me to help him unload a new couch and love seat from his truck. He’s a young white guy with an ex-military look: close-cut hair, muscular and all tattooed up.

We got the couch off first and struggled to get it through his narrow front door. I could see a giant U.S. flag and an Alabama state flag tacked up on his wall.

That’s nice, I thought. Then I looked to my left and saw his Confederate flag, also on the wall.

What the hell?

Due respect to Congressman Davis, but my neighbor and I are separated by more than cultural conservatism. After seeing that flag on his wall, I didn’t have to ask him about his politics or for whom he was voting. It told me all I needed to know.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: civilwar; democrats; dixie; elections; kkk; klan; klancultists; moralsuperiority; nappyhead; neoconfederate; nword; race; racerelations; races; racial; racism; racist; racists; redstates; slavery; slaves; slavestates; southernheritage; southernhistory
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This screed was taken from a post on Southern Heritage News and Views and is a little dated but it shows the extremes some Leftists and some Blacks go when looking at anything Southern. He compares a map of the 2004 Presidential Election and a map of the Pre-WBTS U.S divided up by Slave States, Free States and Teritories and tries to make something out of it.
1 posted on 08/13/2007 10:27:25 PM PDT by BnBlFlag
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To: stainlessbanner

Dixie Ping!


2 posted on 08/13/2007 10:29:06 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: BnBlFlag
Ah yes, those confederate states like Ohio, Indiana, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and the Dakotas!

Yeah, I sure see alot of sh-t kickers flying confederate battle flags in Somerset, Hunterdon, Morris, Warren, Sussex, and Monmouth Counties here in New Jersey (all of which voted for Bush in 2004). You could make an argument about Cape May County, which is south of the Mason-Dixon line, but so is Cumberland, which voted for Kerry, and had legally segregated schools into the 1950s.

3 posted on 08/13/2007 10:32:50 PM PDT by Clemenza (Rudy Giuliani, like Pesto and Seattle, belongs in the scrap heap of '90s Culture)
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To: BnBlFlag

Because we know that the most pressing problem affecting the black community is guys displaying Confederate flags.

That inner-city murder rate? It just PALES in comparison to that supremely important Confederate flag issue.


4 posted on 08/13/2007 10:33:45 PM PDT by denydenydeny (Expel the priest and you don't inaugurate the age of reason, you get the witch doctor--Paul Johnson)
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To: BnBlFlag

Red state/slavery == blue state/abortion.


5 posted on 08/13/2007 10:34:17 PM PDT by Lexinom (http://www.gohunter08.com Don't let the press pick our candidates)
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To: Clemenza

Post of the day!


6 posted on 08/13/2007 10:36:44 PM PDT by ECM (Government is a make-work program for lawyers.)
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To: BnBlFlag


7 posted on 08/13/2007 10:37:29 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: BnBlFlag
Nice try, Lefty.

(What an idiot.)

8 posted on 08/13/2007 10:38:30 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: BnBlFlag

What a pant-load. Lincoln was a Republican. Byrd was a KKK Democrat. Jim-Crow? Democrats. Come on people. Can’t we just hire Mark Levin to go around and verbally vaporize these twits?


9 posted on 08/13/2007 10:39:25 PM PDT by Hoosier-Daddy ("It does no good to be a super power if you have to worry what the neighbors think." BuffaloJack)
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To: BnBlFlag

The author failed to note (as did his Harvard-educated ‘sharp brother’, apparently) that those red states of the Old South were (D) from the Civil War up until ~20 years ago...


10 posted on 08/13/2007 10:41:22 PM PDT by Ready4Freddy ("Everyone knows there's a difference between Muslims and terrorists. No one knows what it is, tho...)
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To: BnBlFlag

The democrat party has been enslaving blacks since the 1820s. It has ALWAYS been the party of slavery, depending on “black field hands” (like Sharpton, Jesses Jackson and the despicable author of this nonsense) to keep the chattel in line.

In contrast the Republican Party, and its principles, have always been there to liberate not only blacks, but all Americans.


11 posted on 08/13/2007 10:42:42 PM PDT by FormerACLUmember (The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims.)
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To: Hoosier-Daddy

Wasn’t the DNC the official political party of the Confederate States?

What that map really shows, is that where ever organized crime flourishes, there too is the DNC dominant.


12 posted on 08/13/2007 10:42:44 PM PDT by Grimmy (equivocation is but the first step along the road to capitulation)
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To: BnBlFlag
Hey, I went up to the black studies conference put on by Black Harvard to meet the brothers from BlackAmericaWeb and talk black politics and maybe do a little black fishing ...

Oops, rambled a little there. Just the way that article read to me. On the other hand, I did learn that Congressman Artur Davis actually has a brain and some sense.

He must be a lonely man in the Congressional Black Caucus.

13 posted on 08/13/2007 10:44:02 PM PDT by TheMole
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To: BnBlFlag

The reason Northern and Midwestern states eschewed slavery of blacks was that it didn’t work in their farm & factory economies. Had it been advantageous to them, they would have had as many slaves as the South.


14 posted on 08/13/2007 10:47:58 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum)
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To: Grimmy
The democrats are the party of: Sen. Robert Byrd (a KKK member & recruiter), the KKK itself, the Confederacy, the Copperheads, Japanese internment, welfare giveaways, the Federal Reserve, the Income Tax, losing China to communism, Jim Crow, etc., etc...
15 posted on 08/13/2007 10:51:56 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Dont forget the greatest and most potentially dangerous 5th column going, the State Department.


16 posted on 08/13/2007 10:57:00 PM PDT by Grimmy (equivocation is but the first step along the road to capitulation)
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This is a hit piece since there was originally slavery in the north as well.


17 posted on 08/13/2007 11:11:37 PM PDT by Republic_of_Secession.
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To: BnBlFlag

WHY DO BLACK AMERICANS VOTE DEMOCRAT BY 90% EVERY ELECTION? I grew up in the South (Texas) home of Lyndon Baines Johnson. It was the Blue Dog Democrats who kept Segregation alive in the South and fought against Civil Rights. My home county, in Texas, was 80% Democrats who used the “N” word as normal as breathing. It was totally segregated.

It was Republicans, the Party of Lincoln, who worked for Civil Rights for the American Blacks in the 40s, 50s and early 60s. LBJ just gets the credit for getting it passed. How? He collared the Democrat Senators & Congressmen and told them they had to pass it to keep the “nigra” vote. They were dragged, kicking and screaming, into session to vote for it.

As the old Campmeeting Song goes: “I was there when it happened and I guess I oughta know.”


18 posted on 08/13/2007 11:20:50 PM PDT by no dems (Dear God, how long are you going to let Ted Kennedy, Robert Byrd and John Conyers live?)
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To: BnBlFlag

The writer didn’t have the guts to sign his slander.


19 posted on 08/13/2007 11:28:42 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: BnBlFlag
60 percent to 40 percent. That’s barely passing in my book

He must be using Louie Farrakhan math - - that's a landslide in my book.

20 posted on 08/13/2007 11:36:31 PM PDT by Salvey (ancest)
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To: Clemenza

When the Neonazis came and rallied in Knoxville, I noticed that almost all of them were from up north. LOL. XD

It made their absolute failure to gain any traction with us locals all the more delicious.


21 posted on 08/13/2007 11:59:23 PM PDT by Constantine XIII
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To: BnBlFlag
What! No dogs playing poker?
22 posted on 08/14/2007 12:00:41 AM PDT by Domangart (editor and publisher)
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To: BnBlFlag

The author is a prime example of what happens when affirmative action meets communism in the higher education system.


23 posted on 08/14/2007 1:16:59 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: BnBlFlag

If you go back to colonial times, you find that the original “red states” were those who believed in state’s rights, state nullification and that states could cecede from the union. The Civil War was as much about that as slavery. Jefferson, Madison and others debated the two views. The Civil War settled the issue by declaring that the union could not be dissolved ans was not so much a confederacy as a dual system of government.


24 posted on 08/14/2007 1:21:13 AM PDT by marsh2
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To: BnBlFlag
but it shows the extremes some Leftists and some Blacks go when looking at anything Southern

plenty of freepers no different.....they loathe us and what we stand for and feel superior and ask us to denigrate our ancestors

they can go to hell..........or to that gay forum wideawakes where they belong

25 posted on 08/14/2007 1:21:27 AM PDT by wardaddy (My randy adult male doberman has more sexual morals than your ex-president you miss so much.)
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To: Hoosier-Daddy

I think it is a mistake today to characterize Radical Republicans of the 1860s as conservative.........they were anything but.

They were zealots and every bit as dangerous to America as the fire breathers.

Lincoln was not one lest that be failed to be mentioned.


26 posted on 08/14/2007 1:23:53 AM PDT by wardaddy (My randy adult male doberman has more sexual morals than your ex-president you miss so much.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Jefferson was a Democrat.

I don’t buy this convenient timeline of conservative always equals GOP.

Thaddeus Stevens and Charlie Sumner were for their time even more radical than Schumer or Hillary.

27 posted on 08/14/2007 1:26:02 AM PDT by wardaddy (My randy adult male doberman has more sexual morals than your ex-president you miss so much.)
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To: no dems

do all conservatives here think the CRA of 1964 was a good thing?


28 posted on 08/14/2007 1:32:25 AM PDT by wardaddy (My randy adult male doberman has more sexual morals than your ex-president you miss so much.)
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To: BnBlFlag

I believe that, at one pooint at least, NY, MA, CT, NJ and many others were slave states as well.


29 posted on 08/14/2007 2:09:08 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: BnBlFlag

The democratic party has always been the party of slavery.

It’s a simple historical fact.


30 posted on 08/14/2007 2:25:45 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: no dems

no dems wrote: “WHY DO BLACK AMERICANS VOTE DEMOCRAT BY 90% EVERY ELECTION?”

It certainly doesn’t help when the Republicans sell out their conservative principles. What happened to school vouchers? Or, why are the Republicans driving down wages and eliminating jobs for poor minorities by doing little or nothing to stop illegal immigration? No, our leadership felt it could out-pander the Democrats, and guess what, no one beats the Dems at their own game. A true conservative agenda would benefit all Americans, including blacks. If we want to win them to our side, we have to be something more than the Democrat-lite party.


31 posted on 08/14/2007 2:39:19 AM PDT by CitizenUSA
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To: BnBlFlag

And the black penchant for selling each other as slaves and now mass murder by abortion is also well known.


32 posted on 08/14/2007 2:48:23 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like what you say))
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To: BnBlFlag

I’ve lived in small Yankee towns and Southern cities. I currently live in a working class mixed race neighborhood in the Hampton Roads area. I can honestly say the only time I’ve heard the word “nigger” in years in this area has been from black friends. When I visit Pennsylvania I hear it every day - and don’t see many mixed race neighborhoods. I also see other signs of racial prejudice in the north.
The writer of this piece would never admit it - but he’s prejudice against the South. It seems he’s bought into the whole “slave reparations” bag. Maybe instead of overlaying the red state-blue state map over a map of the Old Confederacy, it would be more appropriate compare a map of where the KKK is active. Nothing much has been heard from them in the South in a long time. The northern blue states can’t say the same.


33 posted on 08/14/2007 2:48:38 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: wardaddy
No. The CRA of '64 was, as many laws are, well intentioned, but it opened the door to many unintended consequences, most of them bad.

One of the worst being certain private property declared "public accomodations" and the owner losing all rights to what can and cannot be done on his own property.

34 posted on 08/14/2007 3:17:45 AM PDT by metesky (Brought To You By Satriales Aerosol PorkChop Mist - The Finest New Jersey Has To Offer!)
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To: Republic_of_Secession.

This is a hit piece since there was originally slavery in the north as well.
***************************************
Massachusetts was the first state to establish slavery into law in the colonies...


35 posted on 08/14/2007 3:28:29 AM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: wardaddy

“but it shows the extremes some Leftists and some Blacks go when looking at anything Southern.

“plenty of Freepers no different....they loathe us and what we stand for and feel superior and ask us to denigrate our ancestors.
They can go straight to Hell......or that gay forum Wideawakes where they belong”.

Amen Brother! Sad but true. I had three of my GGF’s fight for the Confederacy and I’ll never let them down. That’s why I’m in the SCV!


36 posted on 08/14/2007 3:49:00 AM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: BnBlFlag
The author seems to equate the Confederate flag with racism.

While the War Between the States was somewhat about slavery, that war was more about states' rights and preserving the union.

An analogy could be drawn to the conflict in Iraq. That fight is somewhat to bring democracy to Iraqis (analogous to freeing the slaves), but the conflict is more about protecting Americans.

37 posted on 08/14/2007 4:14:02 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Pennsylvania and some of the New England states probably wouldn't have been slave states, even if that was advantageous.

But agree that many of the free states were such because they could more easily afford to do away with slavery.

Going along with your opinion, 'kinder' slave states were located in the north of slave territory, in states such as Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri. Meanwhile, being sold 'down [the Mississippi] river' was an especially cruel fate for slaves.

38 posted on 08/14/2007 4:19:17 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

You’re absolutely correct!


39 posted on 08/14/2007 4:20:03 AM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: ozzymandus
Where's the slander?

He jumps to a lot of conclusions, but most of his article is an anecdote, and little pops out as being suspect.

40 posted on 08/14/2007 4:22:44 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: marsh2
The War Between the States did not settle the issue.

That war forced the seceded states back into the union, but didn't declare that state secession was illegal--that would be a job for the Supreme Court or for Congress to make a clarifying law.

And in the case of Texas--and Virginia(?)--forcibly reuniting the state was illegal. Texas joined the union with an agreement that the state be able to secede and become fully independent again if that was what the state chose.

41 posted on 08/14/2007 4:27:25 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: BnBlFlag

It seems to me it was Democrats who held slaves and a Republican President freed them. It seems to me it was Democrats who ordered segregation and a Republican President broke that up. It seems to me it’s Democrats holding black peop[le down in the ghettos with handouts, so they can have a constituency, while it’s Republicans who train them, give them jobs and get them free of poverty.

More and more black people are realizing this and switching,


42 posted on 08/14/2007 4:39:51 AM PDT by RoadTest (You don’t make the poor richer by making the rich poorer.” —Winston Churchill)
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To: Clemenza

“Ah yes, those confederate states like Ohio, Indiana, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and the Dakotas! “

Betcha never knew the old slave owners on the cotton plantations in the Dakotas had a secret crop which made slave owning possible in cold climates.

Wanna know what it was? They had a variety of watermelon which could grow all year long, even under five feet of snow!

They also had developed a cotton plant which also thrived in cold and dark climates.

Unfortunately for Russia, those invaluable genetic vatieties were killed off deliberately by Karlos Rovus when the South temporarily occupied all of the “Red States” during the Civil War.

Now you know how they successfully managed a slave based cotton industry


43 posted on 08/14/2007 6:11:05 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principle)
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To: BnBlFlag

black racism alive and well.

It is very sad that the black race baiters have come to be the last mainstream bastion of racism.


44 posted on 08/14/2007 6:26:54 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: slow5poh; EdReform; TheZMan; Texas Mulerider; Oorang; freedomfiter2; SWEETSUNNYSOUTH; BnBlFlag; ...

Dixie Ping


45 posted on 08/14/2007 7:24:55 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: denydenydeny

Thank you for saying that. Perfect.


46 posted on 08/14/2007 7:27:27 AM PDT by twonie (Keep your guns - and stockpile ammo.)
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To: BnBlFlag

This could probably use a barf alert.


47 posted on 08/14/2007 7:47:09 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Keep your friends close; keep your enemies at optimal engagement range)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

“And in the case of Texas—and Virginia(?)—forcibly reuniting the state was illegal. Texas joined the union with an agreement that the state be able to secede and become fully independent again if that was what the state chose.”

According to the Tenth amendment, that holds true for every state.

The South was wrong in that war with only one act. They let the hotheads fire on Fort Sumter which ultimately precipated the invasion desired by Lincoln.

The Southern Slave owners were wrong (in my opinion) for having slaves in the first place. But that was an issue for the states themselves to solve.


48 posted on 08/14/2007 7:48:48 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.)
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To: xzins
The democratic party has always been the party of slavery. It’s a simple historical fact.

That's a far too simplistic view of history.

The democratic party of the old south was not as monolithic as many around here would like to believe. Within that party you did have segregationists, but you also had common, salt of the earth southern folk who had no interest in slavery, segregation, or racism. Problem was that both of these groups perceived an electoral threat from the northern states, which tended to have higher populations and thus more seats in congress. So rather than let one region of the country dictate policy, the factions in southern politics came together under one party. It's easy to associate southerners with racism because of this, but that don't make it so.

However, things change. The segregationists are largely gone, and fiscal conservatives have moved to the republican party while social liberals have moved to the dem party. Southerners quickly saw that the republicans were far more amenable to their ideas and joined the R's in great numbers, now unencumbered by any segregationists. It's too bad that most of the population is too damned stupid to see that, however.
49 posted on 08/14/2007 8:05:08 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Keep your friends close; keep your enemies at optimal engagement range)
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To: CitizenUSA
It certainly doesn’t help when the Republicans sell out their conservative principles.

No, it doesn't, but I don't think this is responsible for blacks voting 90% dem. Unfortunately, Je$$e Jack$on and Al Sharpton have convinced the black community that voting republican is acting white. I don't really know that there is a lot we can do against that.
50 posted on 08/14/2007 8:07:29 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Keep your friends close; keep your enemies at optimal engagement range)
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