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Missing from 'Harry Potter" – a real moral struggle,
Christian Science Monitor ^ | 07.25.2007 | By Jenny Sawyer

Posted on 07/25/2007 1:00:58 PM PDT by meandog

If literature truly reflects society, then the end of the Harry Potter series spells trouble for us all.

Because, after 10 years, 4,195 pages, and over 325 million copies, J.K. Rowling's towering achievement lacks the cornerstone of almost all great children's literature: the hero's moral journey. Without that foundation, her story – for all its epic trappings of good versus evil – is stuck in a moral no man's land.

To be clear: This isn't a critique of Ms. Rowling's values. It's a recognition of a disturbing trend in commercial storytelling and Western society.

For those who've yet to finish "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows," stop reading now: There are spoilers ahead. If you did, however, embark on a Deathly Hallows marathon, you know that the shady Severus Snape died, not in the name of evil, but in the name of good.

Oh, yeah. And Harry defeated Voldemort. Good prevailed. The problem is, that's not the moral of the story. Good always prevails. It's the hero's struggle – and costly redemption – that matters.

Classic tales such as J.R.R. Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy and Madeleine L'Engle's "A Wrinkle in Time" set the standard for children's fiction. With their unrelenting drive toward "the moral of the story," they form a golden thread in the West's cultural fabric. And yet, like the society in which we live, storytelling itself has, in recent decades, undergone a radical transformation – sliding toward moral ambivalence with alarming speed.

Successful storytelling rests on a few basic principles. One of them is this: A story is about someone who changes, who grows through a moral struggle. What is Harry's struggle? Exactly.

(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: book; bookreview; childrensliterature; escapistfare; harrypotter; moralabsolutes; shallow; themoralofthestory; therestofthestory; witchcraft
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Without inner conflict, the hero's tale was hollow.
1 posted on 07/25/2007 1:01:02 PM PDT by meandog
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To: meandog

Yawn...


2 posted on 07/25/2007 1:02:00 PM PDT by TexasAg1996
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To: meandog

I thought this was going to be about the “17 missing pages”!


3 posted on 07/25/2007 1:03:53 PM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: meandog

Once the lemming mania has died, no one is going to reado those 4,195 pages. Wait 5 years.


4 posted on 07/25/2007 1:04:10 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (We all need someone we can bleed on...)
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To: meandog

Some answered the question as to who dies in the Potty book with:

“God dies”.

I have not read nor seen the movies and neither will my children, my brother read some of the books and saw one movie and he said Rowlings is a hack, without reading a word I agree.


5 posted on 07/25/2007 1:04:48 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: meandog

Geez, did she even read the book?


6 posted on 07/25/2007 1:05:42 PM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: meandog

Jenny, your sour grapes are ready.


7 posted on 07/25/2007 1:06:00 PM PDT by 50sDad (Angels on asteroids are abducting crop circles!)
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To: Resolute Conservative
without reading a word I agree.

That's obviously a well thought out and researched opinion...
8 posted on 07/25/2007 1:07:34 PM PDT by TexasAg1996
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To: Resolute Conservative

There really is nothing more pathetic on the planet than someone that will proudly declare they have no actual exposure to someone’s work but they’re a hack. I’ve called many people a hack in my time, but I least bothered to read a few pages first.


9 posted on 07/25/2007 1:08:28 PM PDT by discostu (indecision may or may not be my biggest problem)
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To: meandog
Present in all of Potter is the biggest moral struggle of all.

the struggle of the things of this world or the things of the Lord.

and potter surely isn't of the Lord.

10 posted on 07/25/2007 1:08:37 PM PDT by Battle Hymn of the Republic
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To: Resolute Conservative
Yeah, 325 million copies and you think you can agree she is a hack. Millions of kids reading just for the joy of it again and it's a bad thing to you...

idiot

11 posted on 07/25/2007 1:08:57 PM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: Resolute Conservative
without reading a word I agree...

Thanks fer yer expert opinion.

12 posted on 07/25/2007 1:09:04 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (I drink coffee for your protection.)
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To: Abathar
Geez, did she even read the book?

Not the same one any of the rest of us read.

13 posted on 07/25/2007 1:09:36 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (I drink coffee for your protection.)
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To: 50sDad

“Jenny, your sour grapes are ready.”

yep that’s what i was thinking as well.
maybe if jk rowling ever writes another book she can call
jenny for some pointers


14 posted on 07/25/2007 1:09:41 PM PDT by snarkybob
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To: meandog

I could not put my finger on what it was about these novels that bothered me apart from the appallingly bad writing, why I did not find them compelling or even readable. This article explains it.


15 posted on 07/25/2007 1:10:02 PM PDT by Emrys (Fashion says "Me, too." Style says, "Only me.")
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To: discostu

The trolls are out in force - be careful not to feed them the negative attention that they love. ;)


16 posted on 07/25/2007 1:10:21 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Wise men don't need to debate; men who need to debate are not wise." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: Battle Hymn of the Republic

Have you read any of the books?


17 posted on 07/25/2007 1:10:29 PM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: Resolute Conservative
I have not read nor seen the movies and neither will my children, my brother read some of the books and saw one movie and he said Rowlings is a hack, without reading a word I agree.

I've only read the first book, and I've only seen glimpses of the movies as I flip through HBO channels. But any book that can entertain so many children and adults has a great deal going for it. By creating a series of books that have millions of young people reading instead of killing zombies in some virtual world, Rowlings has already done more for literature than most authors could ever dream of doing. She's no hack.
18 posted on 07/25/2007 1:10:30 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: meandog
"lacks the cornerstone of almost all great children's literature: the hero's moral journey"

This judgement comming from a murderous cult mouth piece, founded by a charlatan fraud is not worth spit.

19 posted on 07/25/2007 1:10:50 PM PDT by Positive (Nothing is sadder than to see a beautiful theory murdered by a gang of brutal facts.)
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To: Abathar
Geez, did she even read the book?

Nope. And did you happen to notice that the strongest negative opinions on this thread are from people who are proud and arrogant about not having ever even read the book?

I wonder why that is?

20 posted on 07/25/2007 1:11:15 PM PDT by null and void (We are a Nation of Laws... IGNORED Laws...)
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To: discostu

I’ve read the first book and part of the second—she’s a hack.


21 posted on 07/25/2007 1:12:08 PM PDT by ECM (Government is a make-work program for lawyers.)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

By that argument the Simpson are great tv, is that the model you want for your kids?


22 posted on 07/25/2007 1:12:30 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Mr. Jeeves; JenB

Thread Dementors!!

All together, now.

Wands up!!

EXPECTO PATRONUM!!


23 posted on 07/25/2007 1:12:32 PM PDT by Politicalmom (A sovereign nation loses that status if it cannot secure its own borders.-Fred Thompson)
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To: Resolute Conservative
I have read all of the books except for the last. My mother bought it for me for my birthday and I will get it this weekend when I visit her. I loved all of the books, and consider them a Godsend. As a publik screwl teechur, it is difficult to get kids to read. These books have opened up the world of reading to so many children of the video game generation. Not only are the books entertaining, there are many moral and even Christian issues dealt with by the characters. These issues will not jump out at the reader, the reader must look into the issues. I strongly suggest that you read them for yourself instead of relying on another’s opinion.
24 posted on 07/25/2007 1:12:53 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: meandog

“Without inner conflict, the hero’s tale was hollow.”

I don’t buy it. Where’s the “inner conflict” in, oh say, “Atlas Shrugged”? And I’m not sure Frodo experienced much inner conflict other than that caused by the evil properties of the ring.

The greatest conflict in Potter is the one involving the effort to try to persuade people that evil exists, cannot be ignored or wished away, and must be fought.

Sounds to me like the author of this article is just trying to be “the smartest guy in the room.”


25 posted on 07/25/2007 1:13:28 PM PDT by wolfinator
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To: null and void

We have taste and standards maybe...


26 posted on 07/25/2007 1:13:35 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative

I’m certain that all those accusing you of providing “expert opinion” have read all the book reviews which indeed confirm that the author is a talentless hack, who can’t write an English sentence without a cliche or a dead metaphor in it. And of course, 325 million horsepoop eating flies can’t be wrong!


27 posted on 07/25/2007 1:13:45 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (We all need someone we can bleed on...)
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To: Positive
This judgement comming from a murderous cult mouth piece, founded by a charlatan fraud is not worth spit.

I saw no reference to islam.

28 posted on 07/25/2007 1:13:53 PM PDT by null and void (We are a Nation of Laws... IGNORED Laws...)
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To: ECM

At least you bothered. To each their own. I don’t think she’s the best writer on the planet, though she definitely does get better with the craft every book, but I like the story and she at least has good pacing. There are three things I want in a writer: a good story, pacing that allows the reading to be entertainment, and good prose. JKR has 1 and 2 down, and like Meatloaf said two out of three ain’t bad.


29 posted on 07/25/2007 1:15:45 PM PDT by discostu (indecision may or may not be my biggest problem)
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To: Politicalmom

Saw your profile page - your baby looks like a very young Hermione!


30 posted on 07/25/2007 1:16:08 PM PDT by FortWorthPatriot
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To: Resolute Conservative

And no knowledge.


31 posted on 07/25/2007 1:16:16 PM PDT by Hoodlum91 (I support global warming.)
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To: ECM
I’ve read the first book and part of the second—she’s a hack.

FWIW, the writing quality improves thoughout the series. Her first book is a bit lame, but there are darn few authors for whom that isn't true.

32 posted on 07/25/2007 1:16:24 PM PDT by null and void (We are a Nation of Laws... IGNORED Laws...)
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To: Emrys
I explain this to my students all the time. All you need to do is find a genre that appeals to you. Apparently, Harry Potter does not. Just because you don’t like the books doesn’t mean that they are crap. It simply means that you don’t like them.
33 posted on 07/25/2007 1:16:59 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
By creating a series of books that have millions of young people reading instead of killing zombies in some virtual world,

Hey watch that, I and many others are simply preparing for the day when the dead walk...mark my words young man, that day is coming and YOU BETTER BE PREPARED!!!

When some stiff is trying to eat your brains out, I'll be in my bunker eating pork n' beans....and then will see who will be laughing.

34 posted on 07/25/2007 1:17:13 PM PDT by lovecraft (Specialization is for insects.)
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To: meandog

I grew up in the 50s where all we did was read because we didn’t have the joys of TV and the internet. I’ve read classics and I’ve read cr*p, and I don’t need anyone to tell me what I should like. I enjoyed the books, and I enjoyed the movies (but less so, because books are always more fun than the movies made from them), and I fully expect to enjoy the last book and remaining movies.


35 posted on 07/25/2007 1:17:36 PM PDT by hsalaw
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To: goodwithagun

“many moral and even Christian issues dealt with by the characters”

Good trick since I was under the impression that Rowlings has made no statement to being a Christian and has tacitly denied it knowing that a admission would kill book sales. Regardless it is frown upon by churches for its message.


36 posted on 07/25/2007 1:17:42 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: ECM
I’ve read the first book and part of the second—she’s a hack.

Oh Yeah?

She can afford it.

;-)

37 posted on 07/25/2007 1:18:06 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (I drink coffee for your protection.)
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To: meandog
When I was the age of these kids reading Potter, I was reading the first of Asimov's Foundation trilogy. There was a story behind it but it had less to do with morality as the author is speaking of. I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with these Potter books (other than the reading level is sub-first grade at best and says something about our culture's education system). And while the books aren't up to par, the movies are excellent escapism for a Sunday afternoon.

Not every book for a kid has to be a morality tale. Yes, Chronicles and Lord of the Rings before they're teenagers but other than that, with some boundaries, kids should be able to read anything and everything out there. Well other than Wuthering Heights which is a torture tool to be used only when they've done something extremely bad

38 posted on 07/25/2007 1:18:26 PM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: meandog
Successful storytelling rests on a few basic principles. One of them is this: A story is about someone who changes, who grows through a moral struggle. What is Harry's struggle? Exactly.

Okay. I'll mark "Harry Potter" down as "unsuccessful storytelling".

Shall the hundreds of millions of copies of the book be recalled? And shall we yank the Billion dollars out of JK Rowling's bank account? That woman has failed miserably to tell a successful story!!!

39 posted on 07/25/2007 1:18:59 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Progressives like to keep doing the things that didn't work in the past.)
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To: wolfinator

The greatest conflict in Potter is the one involving the effort to try to persuade people that evil exists, cannot be ignored or wished away, and must be fought.

Excellent point. We can apply that to the WOT. I could integrate that into my Brit. Lit. class!


40 posted on 07/25/2007 1:19:08 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Resolute Conservative
By that argument the Simpson are great tv, is that the model you want for your kids?

Depends on what seasons. The writing quality in The Simpsons has fallen off badly in the last 5 years or so.

More seriously, I think you do kids and their parents a disservice if you assume that they will automatically take on TV shows and books as models, instead of entertainment.
41 posted on 07/25/2007 1:19:32 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: Mr. Jeeves

Every now and then one just must square off against one these dorks and poke them in the eye. The trick is hit and ignore, getting into a running discussion with them is less fun than going to the dentist, but they should be told at least once that they’re a complete moron and waste of oxygen.


42 posted on 07/25/2007 1:19:39 PM PDT by discostu (indecision may or may not be my biggest problem)
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To: meandog

I can’t understand all this hatred of Harry Potter. Maybe it’s the standard leftist hatred of success, as Rowling went from having nothing to being a self-made billionaire in under a decade. The left by definition must hate her.


43 posted on 07/25/2007 1:19:57 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Resolute Conservative
Good trick since I was under the impression that Rowlings has made no statement to being a Christian and has tacitly denied it knowing that a admission would kill book sales. Regardless it is frown upon by churches for its message.

Having not read the book, you're hardly in a position to judge whether goodwithagun's statement is correct. He/she is, by the way, in case you're interested. There were quite a few Christian themes/issues in book 7, more so than in prior books.
44 posted on 07/25/2007 1:20:01 PM PDT by TexasAg1996
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To: meandog
???

Since when must there be Moral Conflict in entertaining works of fiction?

It's amusing how so many whip up their own standards by which J.K. Rowling's work should be judged and, of course, condemned.

Here are a couple of clues for the morally superior:

  1. The Harry Potter series was never intended to be some sort of moral declaration. Please stop judging it as though it were.
  2. Ms. Rowling is not calling on anyone to follow her lead, nor is she condemning anyone else's morality.
  3. Get a grip. It's fiction.

45 posted on 07/25/2007 1:20:38 PM PDT by TChris (The Republican Party is merely the Democrat Party's "away" jersey - Vox Day)
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To: null and void
Simple, it’s the HTT crowd. A preacher somewhere got all excited about this, also never having read them, and have banned them from ever being read because they don’t want kids to read anything other than the bible. Expanding ones mind without guidance is still a big no-no to most of the people criticizing these books.
46 posted on 07/25/2007 1:20:39 PM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: meandog
Trying to figure out what version of Harry Potter this author read. No inner conflict? What'cha smoking, lady? Harry has to decide to walk to his own death. Willingly. Consciously. It's not spelled out in letters ninety feet high, maybe, but the conflict is there! Would she have preferred something as idiotic as this?

Harry looked up from the Pensieve. He knew what he was being asked to do as though Dumbledore were standing there in the room. He knew, too, what his friends would say. "There's another way, Harry, there always is, let me check my notes," would be Hermione's answer, and "Dumbledore was off his rocker, mate, don't even think about it" would be Ron's. He could picture Snape, too, watching him, with one side of his mouth curled up in a sneer. "Mother's son, Potter, or father's? Your mother gave her life. Who's the coward now?"

Harry's heart pounded as he crossed the room, backward and forward. He didn't want to die! And yet he must. If not, the world would fall to Voldemort. The pain in his heart increased. More than anything he wished for someone to make his choice for him, to tell him what to do. He knew what he must do. Yet he was afraid - deathly afraid - that he did not have the strength to do it.

And so on, ad nauseum, for six hundred pages? Rowling doesn't need choppy stupid maudlin scenes like that, we know Harry so well by this time we can interpolate what went on in his mind. She doesn't have to spell out his inner struggle in the last book because we struggled with him.

PS that was my writing in those italics, not JK's, I'm just trying to illustrate my point.

47 posted on 07/25/2007 1:22:13 PM PDT by JenB
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To: meandog

I have never seen such promotion of a book series by the press. It really bothers me that this particular author was so pushed by the press. Maybe the books were entertaining, but why more so than other authors?


48 posted on 07/25/2007 1:22:29 PM PDT by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: Resolute Conservative
It does not matter what Rowling has claimed. When I read, I make decisions for myself. I found moral and Christian values in the series. Again, I had to read into that myself. I make judgments based on my own interpretation, not what someone else, or the author, says the interpretation is. When I have children I will read these books to them and help them draw those conclusions also. Perhaps you could do the same.
49 posted on 07/25/2007 1:22:57 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: lovecraft
When some stiff is trying to eat your brains out, I'll be in my bunker eating pork n' beans....and then will see who will be laughing.

Depends on whether it plays out like "Doom" on my desktop PC with the lights out and headphones on, or "Sean Of The Dead" on cable on a Sunday afternoon.
50 posted on 07/25/2007 1:23:20 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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