Posted on 07/21/2007 8:23:13 PM PDT by blam
Preach in English, Muslim peer tells imams
By Tom Harper, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 11:57pm BST 21/07/2007
Mosques should be banned from recruiting foreign preachers unless they speak excellent English, according to a senior Muslim politician.
Inayat Bunglawala called the plan 'completely unworkable'
In an attempt to tackle Islamic extremism, Lord Ahmed of Rotherham called for imams from overseas who apply to preach in Britain to undergo strict language and "Britishness" tests in their countries of origin. Those who refused would be denied entry to the UK.
The peer also called for non-English speaking imams already in Britain to be prevented from preaching until they master the language. Lord Ahmed, a member of Tony Blair's Preventing Extremism Taskforce, said: "We should not allow imams to enter the country who do not speak English and who do not understand our modern way of life.
"They should be tested to a much higher standard on language and British culture before they leave Islamabad, Delhi and Casablanca, and if they refuse they should not be allowed in."
The proposal sparked a row among Muslim leaders. Inayat Bunglawala, a spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, called the plan "ludicrous and completely unworkable". He added: "The move to English needs to happen as an evolutionary process. Many elderly worshippers cannot understand English."
At present, imams enter Britain under a special visa scheme for religious ministers, and need only basic English. Most preach in Urdu, an Asian language which many young British Muslims do not understand. As a result, according to Lord Ahmed, youths are increasingly turning to "Middle Eastern political preachers" who address followers in English but twist the words of the Koran, sparking disillusionment and anger.
A survey of 300 mosques by the BBC this month revealed that only 6 per cent of imams in Britain preach in English, while only 8 per cent were born in the UK. Shortly before stepping down as prime minister, Tony Blair introduced a voluntary scheme for imams to receive training in British language and culture. However, Lord Ahmed believes that compulsory controls are needed to thwart youths such as Mukhtar Said Ibrahim, the leader of the failed 21/7 London bombings in 2005, and Richard Reid, the shoe bomber. It emerged during their trials that both had been brainwashed by imams at Feltham Young Offenders Institution.
Lord Ahmed said: "You can't be 'wishy-washy' and implement English lessons voluntarily. They must be compulsory, like in Germany where all sermons have to be delivered in German."
Lord Ahmed, 50, who became Britain's first Muslim peer in 1998, said that the training could be funded by the Muslim community. He said: "Mosque committees have plenty of money - cost is not a problem. There is a willingness to do this amongst British Muslims. It is not a radical proposition to 95 per cent of the community, but certain self-interested parties, who also exclude women and children from mosques, portray it as a burden because their membership cannot speak English."
The Home Office tried to introduce a "Britishness" test for foreign-born imams in 2005 but scrapped it after protests from parts of the Muslim community.
Lord Ahmed spoke out after a meeting with Muhammed Abdul-Bari, the head of the Muslim Council of Britain. Mr Bari gave evidence this month to Lord Ahmed and other Muslim politicians as part of the All Party Parliamentary Inquiry into Tackling Extremism. Mr Bari said he did not recognise the problem of non-English speaking imams. He defended all-male mosques, and said the Government "could not ignore" the impact that its foreign policy had on creating home-grown terrorists.
Khalid Mahmood, the Muslim Labour MP who is the chairman of the inquiry, said that he was "deeply disappointed" with Mr Bari's comments and claimed the MCB was "hindering the fight against terrorism.
"Mr Bari's stance in blaming -foreign policy and domestic -conditions simply antagonises the situation. We are trying to move -forward and get a solution to this issue, while he is reverting to the same tired, old arguments," he said.
I like this guy. We need someone like him promoting American values tests over here.
Why thats not very PC now is it?
IMO, they wouldn't have to moderate their views, dress, or anything, and the leftists would flock to them. I firmly believe that leftists are only anti-religion when it comes to Christianity.
But, even in English the koran is a book of hate and calls for the expansion of Islam and the slaughtering of infidels.
Has he written a new Koran and new book of life (Sirat Rasul Allah) “life of Mohammad” ?
Muslims will get awful tired of reading the two pages of the koran left between the covers if all the hate is torn out.
Mohammed was a Pedophile
?
Gee. What a great role model.
There is only ONE koran, it cannot be abrogated. There is only ONE Sirat Rasul Allah, all that is known about Mohammad. it also cannot be abrogatted, changed in any way. If it was, If Mohammad is wrong, Islam can't exist since it all came from his mouth.
Simply that their own accounts show this as the portrait of their “holy prophet” who brought the “new truth” and tried to replace Christianity about 600 years after the Advent of Christ. And of course, included more than a *little bit* about persecuting and killing the Jooooooooooz.
All humans sin, in varying degrees, of course but the mantra on this dude is “there is no god but allah and mohammed is his prophet”.
Their allegiance is to this man and his book. And no spin can change that. Including this British dupe Lord Baloney or whatever his name is.
The message matters more than the language in which it’s delivered. Until the “religion of peace” becomes something other than an excuse to kill, it’s immaterial whether they yap about jihad in English or some other language.
The Koran / Hadiths on Jews, Christians, Christianity, Jesus Christ, the Gospel,
The Deity of Christ, the Holy Trinity, the Bible (the Book) and Infidels
Note: Because of variances in korans, some verses may be slightly off in different versions. For example, 3:85 is found as 3:84 in certain korans. Also, since the events of 9/11/2001, the University of Michigan has tried to sanitize some of the following passages by changing the word “jihad” to “battle” though the obvious context of the passages remains abundantly clear.
Reference URL’s
http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html
“The Women” [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
[3.85] “And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.”
[4.91] You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given.you a clear authority.
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
The Cattle - [6.146] And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones: this was a punishment We gave them on account of their rebellion, and We are surely Truthful.
[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
The Congregation [62.6] Say: O you who are Jews, if you think that you are the favorites of Allah to the exclusion of other people, then invoke death If you are truthful. (PLEASE COMMIT SUICIDE)
The Cow - [2.111] And they say: None shall enter the garden (or paradise) except he who is a Jew or a Christian. These are their vain desires. Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful.
The Dinner Table - The Dinner Table [5.14] And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection; and Allah will inform them of what they did.
[5.72] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.
Quran tells Muslims to kill the disbelievers wherever they find them (Q. 2:191), to murder them and treat them harshly (Q. 9:123), slay them (Q. 9: 5), fight with them, (Q. 8: 65 ) even if they are Christians and Jews, humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax (Q. 9: 29). Quran takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and tell clearly that no other religion except Islam is accepted (Q. 3: 85). It relegates those who disbelieve in Quran to hell (Q. 5: 11), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (Q. 9: 28). It orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (Q. 2: 193).
“Fight those who do not profess the true faith [ISLAM], till they pay the jiziya with the hand of humility.” - Koran 9: 29
“.... I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.” - Koran 8:12
“Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.” - Koran 9: 73
“When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads [CUT OFF THEIR HEADS] and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.” - Koran 47:4
“The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom....” - Koran 5: 33-34
” Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last day, nor hold the forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jiziyah with willing submission. And feel themselves subdued.” - Koran 9: 29
“....the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.” - Koran 98: 1-8
“Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: ‘Taste the torment of the Conflagration!’” - Koran 22: 19-22, 23
“And burn ye him in the blazing fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits. This was he that would not believe in allah Most high and would not encourage the feeding of the indignant. So no friend hath he here this day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds. “ - Koran 31-37
“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and genitals cut off, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror.” - Koran, 5:33-34)
“In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost.” - Koran, 8:37
According to the New Testament of the Bible, the God of Israel has a Son
- Jesus Christ of Nazareth; but Allah has no son according to the Koran
Therefore the Biblical New Testament Christian God of Israel is not Allah
“They say: Allah has taken a Son (to Himself)! Glory be to Him: he is the Self-sufficient: his is what is in the heavens and what is in the Earth; you have no authority for this; do you say against Allah what you do not know? Say: Those who forge a lie against Allah shall not be successful.” - Koran 10:68-69 [SAYS JESUS IS NOT THE SON OF GOD AND WHOEVER SAYS SO IS A LIAR]
“....the Christians call ‘Christ the Son Of God’. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but intimate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth.” - Koran 9: 30
The Women - [4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and his Word which he communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and his apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one god; far be It from his glory that he should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector. (CLEARLY STATES THAT JESUS IS **NOT** THE SON OF GOD)
The Immunity - Denial of Deity of Christ and His Messiahship - [9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! (MAY ALLAH DESTROY JEWS AND CHRISTIANS)
Say: “Praise be to Allah Who begets no son and has no partner in (His) dominion: nor (needs) he any to protect him from humiliation: Yea magnify him for his greatness and glory!” - Koran 17: 111
Further that he may warn those (also) who say “Allah hath begotten a son”: - Koran 18: 4
It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that he should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When he determines a matter he only says to it “Be” and it is. - Koran 19: 35
They say: “(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!” Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! - Koran 19: 88-89
For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that he should beget a son. - Koran 19: 92
No son did Allah beget nor is there any god along with Him: (if there were many gods) behold each god would have taken away what he had created and some would have lorded it over others! Glory to Allah (he is free) from the (sort of) things they attribute to Him! - Koran 23: 91
he begetteth not nor is he begotten; - Koran 112: 3
Jihad the Best Deed - Hadiths say Muslims will kill all Jews at the Last Hour
Hadith Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar:
Allah’s Apostle said, “You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, ‘O ‘Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.’ “
Hadith Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “The (Final) Hour (last human battle on Earth) will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”
Hadith Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 595:
Narrated ‘Aisha:
(the mother of the faithful believers) I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! We consider Jihad as the best deed.” The Prophet said, “The best Jihad (for women) is Hajj Mabrur. “
Hadith Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 594:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet was asked, “Which is the best deed?” He said, “To believe in Allah and His Apostle.” He was then asked, “Which is the next (in goodness)?” He said, “To participate in Jihad in Allah’s Cause.” He was then asked, “Which is the next?” He said, “To perform Hajj-Mabrur. “
Hadith Sahih Bukhari [4:56:791] Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar: I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!’ “
Hadith Sahih Muslim [41:6981] Ibn ‘Umar reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me); kill him.”
Hadith Sahih Muslim [41:6982] Ubaidullah has reported this hadith with this chain of transmitters (and the Words are): “There is a Jew behind me.”
Hadith Sahih Muslim [41:6983] Abdullah b. ‘Umar reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: “You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.”
Hadith Sahih Muslim [41:6984] Abdullah b. ‘Umar reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: “The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.”
Hadith Sahih Muslim [41:6985] Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: “The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.”
Mohammed was about 51 years old when he married a 6-year-old girl. 3 years later when
Mohammed was about 54 years old, he consummated his marriage to the 9-year-old girl
HADITH Sahih Bukhari [5:58:234] Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
HADITH Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 235: Narrated ‘Aisha:
That the Prophet said to her, “You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and some-one said (to me). ‘This is your wife.’ When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, ‘If this is from Allah, it will be done.”
HADITH Sahih Bukhari [7:62:64] Narrated ‘Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
It’s considered OK for a muslim to kill an infidel, even if it’s another muslim
HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:283] Narrated Abu Juhaifa:
I asked Ali, “Do you have the knowledge of any Divine Inspiration besides what is in Allah’s Book?” ‘Ali replied, “...we have what is written in this paper as well.” I asked, “What is written in this paper?” He replied, “...the judgment that no Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel.”
HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:260] Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn ‘Abbas, who said, “Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ “
HADITH Sahih Bukhari [6:61:577] Narrated ‘Ali:
I heard the Prophet saying, “In the last days (of the world) there will appear young people with foolish thoughts and ideas. They will give good talks, but they will go out of Islam as an arrow goes out of its game, their faith will not exceed their throats. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for there will be a reward for their killers on the Day of Resurrection.”
HADITH Sahih Bukhari [9:84:64] Narrated ‘Ali:
Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah’s Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.”
why would a ton of people flock to a cult that preaches:
Qur'an:8:7 "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"
Ishaq:324 "He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"
Tabari IX:69 "Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us."
Ishaq:489 "Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing."
Qur'an 2:191 "And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter."
I'd like to think lefties aren't THAT insane. But if they are, well, too bad for them. I don't hate guns like they do.
This particular Lord Trojan Horse just wants proper English so it will become more palatable to young, foolish British folks. The same tactic would be applied in any country. His basic agenda is to push islam, which is the most anti-christian (by clear reading of the text), anti-Jew movement on the face of the Earth. And the most dangerous, not only doctrinally, but terrorist / militarily if they use their WMD’s.
And you know that day is coming ... imagine if OBL had two nuclear weapons on 9/11 ... D.C. and Manhattan would have ceased to exist in a microsecond.
You are being a little too kind in regards to Mohammad and his 6 year old bride.
He consummated his marriage when she was six as well. The sloppy cover up in Islamic text is easy to spot.
Nine year olds didn’t breast feed in Mohammad’s era. Plus Aisha’s parents were still living in Mecca at the time of consummation. Nine year old girls don’t get short of breath being led from a swing by their wet nurse into the house, where she was picked up and placed on Mohammad’s lap. Then he insane parents left the room/mud hut. Must have been an awful tiny nine year old.
Muslims like to claim Aisha was nine, but she wasn’t nine in Mecca at the time of “consummation”, she was nine in Medina years after Mohammad was kicked out of Mecca.
Yes, Bakahri had really abrogated the Aisha stuff. The truth is found in older works by Tabari, which Muslim hate us infidels having posession of.
You can order The Sirat Rasul Allah which was origionally written by Ibn Ishaq in 750 A.D. It was edited and abridged by Ibn Hisham in 830 and translated by Alfred Guillaume under the title, The Life of Muhammad for about $29 online.
Oh yea, it's Britain. Never mind.
L
Preach the normal jihadist stuff...just do it in English.
Jesus says, give unto me a child until he is 7, and he will be mine forever.
Muhammed also wants a child until he is 10, but has about a 95% tuition rate, compared to, say, 30% of Jesus'? No wonder they are advancing.
Just my two cents. Good Qur'an and Hadith references, by the way. Thanks.
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