Posted on 07/03/2007 3:11:51 AM PDT by goldstategop
t is just a simple click, but it gets my mind racing.
That’s the sound that a Colt .380 pocket pistol makes when it is being cocked. I know that’s the sound it makes, but it is still an attention-getter when you hear it in person.
It isn’t the only thing that gets my attention this late June morning. More so is the guy behind the pawn shop counter explaining to me how I could feel comfortable sticking this cocked pistol down the front of my pants.
Welcome to the world of concealed carry.
Yes, I’m in the gun-buying market. Now that Kansas is on the growing list of states allowing a person to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon, it makes sense to thoroughly explain the process of getting a concealed carry permit.
So, here I am. The best way to explain is first to do. Periodically this summer, I’ll be writing these first-person accounts as I receive gun training, fill out the necessary paperwork and, ultimately, carry a concealed weapon around for a few days.
•••
I haven’t told this guy on the other side of the pawn shop counter that I’m a reporter. I just want to hear how he would talk to me, the real me. Believe it or not, people sometimes get a little reserved around reporters.
I’m in an area pawn shop (there are only two in Lawrence, but if you drive to Topeka or Kansas City there are plenty) because I figure that’s the place to find an affordable gun. Affordability is in the eye of the beholder. The seller prices this .380-caliber weapon at $575.
“Chances are, you’ll never need to pull it in your life,” he says. “But if you do, you need it to be a reliable weapon.”
That’s what this is, he says. He tells me it is a very sought-after weapon for concealed carry. The reason: It is small.
He drops it into the front pocket of his baggy shorts to show me that no one would ever know. Some guys carry it that way, but without a pocket holster it kind of bounces around in there. Plus, you don’t want to sit down in a chair, lean back and have your pistol fall on the floor. That’s not the best of icebreakers.
He says for people who regularly wear a jacket or blazer, concealing a weapon is a piece of cake. A small holster that clips on the side of your belt or fits in the small of your back will do the trick.
But I’m just wearing a T-shirt and blue jeans today. What about that? The man says a lot of guys do wear them down the front of their pants inside a special holster called a crotch holster. He laughs a little as he says this. I laugh more nervously.
He tells me this is a good gun for it, though. He tells me it is safe with this gun to “carry one in the chamber.” Just cock it and put it on safety. That way, it just requires a quick flick of the safety and a pull of the trigger. A gun for a man with no time to waste.
That’s about it on that gun. As an afterthought, he tells me I would want to load this one with hollow-point ammunition — a type of ammunition designed to expand once it hits a target rather than travel straight through it. It reduces the risk of hitting something you didn’t intend to.
It drives home the point of what this is all about.
•••
I go to a few more places. I ask what I really should be looking for in a gun for concealed carry. One guy tells me definitely a semiautomatic — a type of gun that once cocked allows you to fire all the shots in your magazine simply by repeatedly pulling the trigger.
“Bottom line, if you ever get in a situation, the idea is to fire as many shots as you can,” the salesman says.
Others tell me that it is just whatever I’m comfortable with. Size seems to be the biggest factor in determining whether a gun is a good fit for concealed carry.
Ultimately, I decide to buy local. After all, I’ve heard City Hall needs sales tax dollars. There are not a lot of places to buy a handgun in Lawrence. Three that I found were Jayhawk Pawn and Jewelry, 1804 W. Sixth St.; Lawrence Pawn and Jewelry, 944 E. 23rd St.; and Hacks Outfitters, 941 E. 23rd St.
I end up with a .22-caliber semiautomatic. It is not a Dirty Harry gun by any means. It is about the size of my cell phone, and about twice as heavy. What I can say about this gun is that the price is right. It’s a new gun — not used — and cost me $139.99.
The seller is upfront with me. He says it is a good gun, but basically a hobby gun for people wanting to find out whether the idea of owning a gun is right for them. Someone else describes it as “kind of hit or miss.” That’s a phrase I can’t get out of my head.
I buy it at Jayhawk Pawn and Jewelry. It is a professional process but a quick one. Before I could even look at a gun, I had to show my driver’s license. If you’re not a Kansas resident, you can’t legally buy a gun here.
After I hand over my cash, I get a two-page sheet to fill out for the Federal Bureau of Investigation. It asks for my name, address, Social Security number, the make and model of the gun, and its serial number. The form includes a handful of questions, including whether I have been convicted of a felony, had a restraining order related to domestic violence or have renounced my U.S. citizenship.
And the question that apparently doubles as an audition for America’s Stupidest Criminals: Am I a fugitive of the law?
Apparently, I answer everything correctly. The clerk calls my information into the FBI, and gets the go-ahead to sell me the gun. I entered the store at 1:30 p.m. and have a gun by 1:50 p.m.
I check the form that I filled out to make certain that the serial number on it is the same one on the gun. That number will be attached to my name, so I want to make sure it is right.
I walk out the door with a lot of questions. Among them is the one I came in with: Where am I going to conceal this thing? In my boot? In my pocket? On my back?
I have time to figure this out. I can’t conceal it anywhere until I go through a state-mandated class and fill out the necessary paperwork for a permit.
But my outing has given me one answer. I already can tell you the one place I definitely won’t be concealing it.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
“I end up with a .22-caliber semiautomatic. What I can say about this gun is that the price is right. It’s a new gun — not used — and cost me $139.99.”
Sounds like he bought a piece of junk. A new gun for $139.99? He’ll be so disgusted with using it, that it will color his whole attitude towards guns. That is if that’s not what he’s intending anyway. I have to wonder.
He’s not buying it for the reason you’d buy a gun. He’s a reporter and only bought the gun to go through the process in order to write about it. Buying the el-cheapo gun makes it easier to justify on his expense account. After his series of articles he’ll take it back to the pawn shop and sell it.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
Most likely that indeed is what will happen.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
He might come around. He can always upgrade. Judging by the price of the Colt, he’s not getting any bargains. For a little more, he could have purchased a KelTec. I carry a Keltec all summer long when in my “shorts and flip flop” mode. For dress up and church, I have my “pimp” gun. A nickle plated, faux pearl gripped, S&W Airweight in .38
Any other time, I’m packin’ a 1911 in .45 acp(Since my wife took my .357 for her own...).
And then jams half way through the magazine. I've not had the best luck with semi-autos, and I've owned a bunch of them. Only had two that haven't jammed on me (so far), and one of them's nearly new with less than 200 rounds through it.
If I actually needed to use a pistol for self defense, I'd want one that has some stopping power. A .45 can stop even someone on PCP who feels lucky.
I guess I’n being suspicious, but I wonder whether the guy already has an agenda about guns? He has this non-chalant type attitude for someone that will be carrying a gun. Maybe it is all about his article.
Any gun I’ve seen for $139.99 is an absolute piece of crap. They had some at the last gun show that looked like someone made them in their garage with a hammer and file.
“If I actually needed to use a pistol for self defense, I’d want one that has some stopping power.”
The pawn shop guy sure didn’t tell him that.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
This reporter isn't to bright
Sounds like the pawn shop owner is trying to sell the buyer on a Colt Mustang, and telling him to carry it with a round in the chamber, cocked and locked (condition one), shoved down his pants. IMO, this doesn’t seem like a particularly good idea for a beginner; I certainly wouldn’t do it myself, and I’ve been shooting for more than forty years.
He's a reporter. Therefore he's got nothin' to worry about!!!
Does Kansas not have three day wait or is this guy blowing smoke?
Hey Beck,
I bought one of those two weeks ago and I love it.
I have fired over 200 rounds out of it with four different types of ammo and not one problem.
I recommend the Winchester Silver Tip ammo. Good penetration and very good expansion. I tested some along with CoreBon, Magtech and Blaser on some phone books and the Silver tips were FAR superior.
CZ-52s aren’t crap, though they are inexpensive.
Probably the only gun at that price which isn’t..
Anyway the guy should consider what his life is worth
and purchase accordingly.
“CZ-52s aren’t crap, though they are inexpensive.”
Agreed on the CZ-52.
I was thinking along the lines of one of those Jiminez guns, if I spelled it right. I seen those at a gun show. They were the absolute worst piece of junk I ever held in my hand.
Pennsylvania is the same way, its an automatic back-ground check, last pistol that I bought took about a 1/2 hour or so to get done. Now I do have to disagree with alot of the guys talking about the price of his .22.... I had recentely gone and bought a Hi-Point .45 semi, now the frame is a large frame, polymer handle and grips, ALL AMERICAN MADE by a company out of Ohio with a lifetime warranty, and deadly accurate. On my 25 yard slow fire I could cover all 7 shots with a half dollar and tell you what no problem with jamming or misfire and now have sent close to 500 or 600 round through it and it only cost me $159.99 brand new. A terrific weapon for the price and basically a poor man’s .45 and that is what I carry every day when I leave home. Hopefully this reporter will take to the gun life and help support the 2nd amendment.
He bought a Jimenez Arms JA 22. I have never heard of them before but I would be suspicious of a 22 semi at 139.00.
22 are some of the most difficult calibers to get to cycle reliably in a semi due to very low recoil.
He could have then made an intelligent and informed choice of firearm selection, the manner to carry it safely and even though this entire exercise was to hammer the “gun culture”; might have learned something that would have been a benefit to him and his family.
However, Chad Lawhorn is first and foremost an Asshole, and a reporter second.
Wait!
It seems that on second thought the descriptors are interchangeable and vie for first and second place equally.
Here in FL they do the insta-check but you still wait three days unles you have a carry permit.
BTW I have a HiPoint 9mm compact. Been shooting and carrying it for 2 years. Great gun!
This seems like a good thread to ask a question:
On Mother’s Day my husband gave me a Sig P232. Greatest gift ever, frankly! I’ve run 1000 rounds through it at the range with only one jam, which occurred at about 600 rounds. The gun had not been cleaned yet. I’ve also shot a Glock and a larger Sig, and felt comfortable with those guns as well.
My problem is, I’m having trouble finding out where .380 ACP fits on the “stopability” chart. 380 ACP is what the Sig P232 holds. Anyone know?
I plan to apply for a CCW when I feel more comfortable with my shot clusters at 15 yards.
He has this non-chalant type attitude for someone that will be carrying a gun.
I get the same feeling.
380 stopability, hmmmm.
Depends on who you believe and type of ammo.
I prefer Win Silver Tips for my .380 and go ere to look at gun actual tests. He does the .22, .380, 9mm MAK and others.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26.htm
I love mine thought about the 9mm but prefer a .45 for stopping power, nice to have the extra ammo like the 9mm but have to give and get right. Had the spring on mine take off when cleaning it at the range and couldn’t find it find it in the grass, so I called them up and asked to have one shipped, tried to give the lady my credit card number to pay for it and she said no charge and I had it two day later, now I just don’t let my butter fingers slip off of it but great company, and fine weapon. I’m going to buy my wife the 9mm this Christmas, and take her for her permit as well. An armed society is a safe society.
““If I actually needed to use a pistol for self defense, I’d want one that has some stopping power.”
The pawn shop guy sure didn’t tell him that.”
True, and most firearms sellers will give a quick lesson in firearm safety, simplified with things like
“Always check the pistol when you first handle it to see if it is loaded and always keep your finger off of the trigger unless you are ready to shoot”
Thanks for the link, Hazcat! I’m going to be all over the site a little later today!
My 9mm Compact rides on my hip most times I go out. I found a Kydex holster for it so I just put a Haywain shirt over it and I’m good to go.
It shot low to the right out of the box but within 12 rounds I had it dead center at 10 yards. Great gun.
When I can’t carry the 9 I have a KelTek P-3AT that is also a good little shooter.
Is packing.org behind the curve, or is this journalist really in MO?
According to this, CCW in KS is pretty difficult/expensive.
http://www.packing.org/state/kansas/#stateprocess
Yes, I’m in the gun-buying market. Now that Kansas is on the growing list of states allowing a person to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon, it makes sense to thoroughly explain the process of getting a concealed carry permit.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
No kidding, any gun under $200 usually is a piece of crap. .45 caliber 1911, Glock 40 or a 2 inch .357 S&W are good stoppers.
I bought a Colt Mustang .380 years ago. It was a mess. It was half plastic and every time I fired the gun on the second round the magazine popped out. If you wanted to keep these guns there was an outfit in Long Beach, CA that would refit them with all metal parts. For my .380 needs I got a Walther PPK S and carry it in a Galco shoulder holster.
Need at least a week anyway here in NC. You have to get a handgun permit from the Sheriff first, $5. It’s only good for one pistol and for 5 years.
Some counties are even more difficult than just the permit and $5, like Durham county. You need the permit application and two seperate notarized chracter reference forms.
One of these: (Notice you need to know a cop!)
http://www.co.durham.nc.us/departments/shrf/Documents/Pistol_Permit.pdf
and two of these, notarized:
http://www.co.durham.nc.us/departments/shrf/Documents/CHARACTER.pdf
Plus five bucks let’s you go to the gun store for a handgun in Durham county and buy one gun. They will let you do two at a time, though. For $10, of course.
http://www.co.durham.nc.us/departments/shrf/Operations/Records/Gun_Permits/Pistol_Permit_Instru.html
In Durham county, they can also make you wait 30 days for the permit.
Lastly if you have the SLIGHTEST doubt that you can actually shoot someone do not carry a gun. Especially if you think you can just wave it a somebody and have them go away. We had a case here in Reno about two years ago where a know wack job approached a woman on the campus of the University of Reno. She brandished her gun at the guy and he kept coming. She had to terminate the attack at very close range.
GOOD LORD!
The character references have to be notarized so not only do they make YOU jump through hoops they also make your REFERENCES do the same!
Not too obvious they don’t believe in 2A.
There are several ways that cartridges are rated for so-called "stopping power", but I don't buy any of them as absolute fact. An ex-cop named Marshall did a lot of research on the effectiveness of various calibers and bullet types (hollowpoints, full jackets, soft lead, etc) and rated them on the percentage of one shot stops vs total number of shooting with that cartridge in actual police shooting incidents. According to his figures the .380 rates around 65% one shot stops with good hollowpoint ammo IIRC, and about 50% with full metal jacket ammo. Personally I don't think his method is very accurate because there are so many variables in the shootings he used. A " one shot stop" of a bad guy with a painful, bloody, but not serious flesh wound who stops attacking his victim because he thinks he's dying is given the same weight in Marshall's rating system as a bad guy shot in the heart who falls dead on the spot.
Just based on what I have seen of the .380 and several other rounds fired into water-logged bundles of newspaper, it's performance in things like penetration and bullet expansion is only slightly inferior to the .38 special with the same type ammo. The .38 special is the caliber of revolvers that most cops carried for many decades before they switched over to semi-auto pistols. When I carry a .380 for protection, which I do sometimes in certain situations, I carry it loaded with Federal HydroShok ammo which I found performed best in my wet newspaper experiments. A .380 certainly wouldn't be my first choice for a defense pistol, but it's probably the most effective round that can be chambered in a small, easily concealed pocket pistol like a KelTec or the Beretta Tomcat. IMHO any gun in any caliber is 100% more effective in a confrontation with a criminal than no gun at all, and in some situations the only choice is a very small gun.
Where do these fools, dispensing foolish advice, come from?
The REAL "bottom line", is to HIT your target (as many times as necessary, and in the right place/places) to STOP your adversary, and make it so he is no longer a threat.
A top government official (Sec. Chertoff of Homeland Security) says that the U.S. government “cannot enforce the laws”.
The conclusion is inescapable that the private citizen must look to his own defenses. I’m ready.
When the Muslims hit my street they will think they are in the Gaza.
THAT is one of the few reasons I didn't like being stationed in North Carolina as a Marine. This kind of bureaucratic jack-booted crap (please Mr. Sheriff, can I buy a handgun?) is not far from what you'd expect from some anti-gun "Peoples Republic" up North (like massa-two-shits, new york, etc.).
I love the South, but NC is one place I'll never live again.
In one incident I was carrying a .32acp caliber pocket pistol, and in the other I had a little double barrel .22 derringer. I thought at the time that those guns were adequate but I know better than that now. But even those little guns saved my bacon in each incident, and I might not be here typing this now if I hadn't had at least a gun of some kind with me. Nobody wants to get shot with any gun, and that's enough to stop an attack in many instances without a shot being fired.
A S&W 642 in my pocket right now, don’t even know it’s there most of the time (neither does anyone else), but I can put my hand on it in less than a wink. Basically I’m a 1911 guy, but for everyday deep carry nothing beats a good .38SPL revolver for stopping power and reliability. That’s where this guy shoul’ve been looking.
When in the outback I do sometimes carry a P92 only because of ammo capacity. The 15 rounds means I don't have to carry a spare clip
You appear to contradict yourself.
So what's your actual, final opinion on 9mm?
IMO, caliber and hits are important, but so is placement equally important.
By the way, "outback"? Do you live in Australia?
Also, as someone who is now 50 and has been shooting since I was eight, and who spent 13 years training and competing with weapons in the Marine Corps, I'll tell you that "clip" is not the correct name for a weapon's magazine. When I hear someone use this term (and it may not apply to you), I think newbie, FNG, neophyte, etc.
And then jams half way through the magazine. I’ve not had the best luck with semi-autos, and I’ve owned a bunch of them. Only had two that haven’t jammed on me (so far), and one of them’s nearly new with less than 200 rounds through it.
Semi Autos are not for everyone.. If you limp wrist the gun or hold it improperly it will not consistantly function.
If you do not have the time or inclination to understand about ammunition types and their functioning in a particular weapon it will not function consistently.
You really are better off with a wheel gun...simple reliable effective. 200 rounds? One should not even think about carrying any weapon they have not put thousands of rounds thru. Every time you or a Smith tweaks something 500 rounds should go thru flawlessly before it goes into your holster for self defense. You should always take a carry gun to the range and try to fire it exactly as you have it from the holster. I have seen quite a few guys perform that simple “test draw and no bang” on that challenge. Unless you are willing to commit real time consistently to the range and get into the 10,s of thousands of rounds fired.. Stick to a wheel gun.
Of course you must practice there as well.
W
Thanks for the ammo tip (so-to-speak), Haz.
Mine is a second-generation P-3AT. It needed smithing at the Kel-Tec factory in order to F&E my practice&carry loads, but since then it’s been OK.
Try as I might to avoid it, I lost the little “ejector’ thingy in my shag carpet one day and had the factory replace it when they smithed the gun. Unbelievable how easy it is to lose.
I recommend the accessory one-round extension to the magazine. Now my ring finger has a solid place to rest. If you conceal it inside the belt with the available accessory clip, the extension makes the pistol slightly clumsier to retrieve.
The 380 really is the minimum decent stopping power handgun out there. With a decent hollow point loading it will equal a good 38 special load in stopping power.
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