Student suspended for speaking out against drug teachings

Ottawa Citizem ^

[starzed_]

Smells like teen spirit Ottawa Citizen Editorial Published: Friday, June 22, 2007

Teenagers are good at seeing through lies and half-truths. That's why baseless propaganda, like the old movie Reefer Madness, doesn't work. Why would anyone take advice from someone who doesn't know what drugs actually do?

The adults of Wawota Parkland School in Saskatchewan are acting like insecure children, because they feel threatened by the actions of one bright, principled, inquisitive teenager.

This year, the school gave a presentation to students about the dangers of drugs. Kieran King, 15, didn't react as the teachers expected. He started questioning, out loud, whether cannabis is really more dangerous than legal drugs such as alcohol or tobacco. Overblown warnings about the dangers of drugs, like those in the 1930s film "Reefer Madness," have never convinced young people. Kieran King was and is right to stand up against them. Overblown warnings about the dangers of drugs, like those in the 1930s film "Reefer Madness," have never convinced young people. Kieran King was and is right to stand up against them. Email to a friendEmail to a friendPrinter friendlyPrinter friendly Font:

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Kieran doesn't do drugs. He thinks drinking and smoking are stupid and dangerous. He's not encouraging substance abuse: He's standing up for the facts and expressing opinions.

The school wouldn't allow students to join a protest about the issue outside. Kieran and his brother went; the school suspended them, preventing Kieran from writing his final exams.

According to the Saskatchewan Marijuana Party, the school even threatened Kieran with legal action.

Instead of smearing a young man's reputation, the school and school board should be lauding his spirit and diligence. Education is supposed to nurture independent thought and the love of truth.

Adults will have more luck convincing teenagers of the very real dangers of many drugs if they come clean about the statistics and admit there are contradictions in law and social attitudes.

The "trust us, we know better" approach doesn't turn teenagers into good citizens; it makes them bitter, angry and rebellious.

[starzed_]

Now is there any wonder why students no longer think before doing stuff? When a student questions the "facts" they are told, they are given a suspension. That's not right! This is a great time to let them develop a questioning mind, not a "follower". They always tell teens to be themselves, not to follow the "bad people", yet this is exactly what they are stopping.

Btw its been reported that some people are awakened by this; which they should be. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070621/marijuana_suspension_070621/20070621?hub=Canada

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070621.POT21/TPStory/National

[Cicero]

In my experience, having known a fair number of marijuana smokers, it is a dangerous drug.

It’s all very well that this kid doesn’t “do” drugs, but if he persuades his classmates to do them, there will be a heavy burden on his shoulders. He will be responsible for the wrecked lives that result.

[PAR35]

When a student questions the "facts" they are told, they are given a suspension.

No, when a participates in a walkout, the student is suspended.

"The school wouldn't allow students to join a protest about the issue outside. Kieran and his brother went; the school suspended them,"

[Lexington Green]

Do not question official lies..

[herMANroberts]

Only the person who smokes it is responsible. He isn't responsible for them. You're giving license for the worst behavior if a friend influences it.

I'd like to know about some of the dangerous behaviors of all the potheads you know and how it's any more dangerous than what we have under the influence of alcohol now. Are you advocating bringing back alcohol prohibition?

[metesky]

Bad headline. It should read: Student suspended for leaving school without authorization.

[Lurker]

Maybe yes and maybe no. But that doesn't mean adults should be filling this kids head with bs.

L

[P-40]

We had teachers that told us drugs were great and you could have a fun time with them...but before trying them we should look around the community a bit at the people who are into doing drugs...because they also once felt that drugs were great and you could have a fun time with them.

[tiki]

I’m all against drugs but around here they tell the kids that alcohol and cigarettes are drugs. Now I agree but they lump them in with hard drugs. Now kids observe people drinking and smoking and it is an easy step to thinking that hard drugs aren’t that bad either. Some drugs are worse than others, I would teach that they are all bad but meth is a heck of a lot worse than marijuana and heroine is worse than cigarettes.

[headsonpikes]

Bad headline indeed.

Should read: “Student suspended for unmasking propaganda function of public schools”

Or, “Student suspended for calling ‘Bullsh*t!”

[Wolfie]

Kid picked the wrong topic. If he was protesting the Party Line on Global Warming, conserviatives would be hailing him as the next Patrick Henry.

[Zon]

but if he persuades his classmates to do them, there will be a heavy burden on his shoulders.

Which falls short of being a crime. It is a crime to initiate force, threat of force or fraud against any person and their property. Initiation of force violates the  person's/victim's inalienable right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Person's who enlist other persons to initiate force on their behalf are co-conspirators to the criminal act.

[Zon]

Hypocrisy knows no party line or geographical boundry.

[metesky]

You talkin’ to me, stranger?

[Kirkwood]

Out of all the people I knew in college smoking marijuana, none of them finished school and they all dropped out. All those who didn’t smoke got through in 4 years or less. One of the potheads went back a few years later and got a degree when he stopped smoking and got his head on straight. I lost track with all the other potheads. I’m not saying this is a cause and effect, but still it is a correlation. It could be that underachievers tend to gravitate to drugs so they can escape from responsibility and life in general. While others with low self esteem start doing drugs to fit into a crowd with equally low expectations. Show me someone on drugs and I will show you someone who has other mental or emotional issues, some potentially more serious than taking drugs.

[gcruse]

As a blogger noted the other day, so much for the chimera of teaching students to think for themselves. Education is not about that at all. It’s about introjecting the values/propaganda of the state.

[Oztrich Boy]

Read the tagline

[starzed_]

Not once did he say that Marijuana wasn't dangerous. What he did say is that the "professionals" should be telling them the whole picture. I would say that it isn't as dangerous as others. Why can't they just say its dangerous, and not "the most" dangerous thats out there. The reason he questioned it was the fact that he's heard the "most dangerous" statement before, and wanted a reference for it.

Eugene Oscapella, an Ottawa lawyer and founding member of the Canadian Foundation for Drug Policy, said Kieran should be commended for standing up for his rights. "If he is saying that cannabis is less harmful than alcohol or tobacco, he's probably dead right," Mr. Oscapella said. "So what is wrong in an educational institution with discussing these issues?" -globe article

Why do they think that the only way to teach is to state "extreme danger" then not allow students to quanitfy the "danger" for themselves? Why don't they let then use their critical thinking part of their brain?

If you think they do, then you should actually go to the school "drug education" (what ever they call them) days or classes. Now you try to put the whole world perspective on it, and you will have your eyes opened.

I once got told after a tobacco education day by about a 6 grade student" do you know my mother is trying to kill me?" Yes thats exactly what he said! I then asked how he thought that? He said his mother smoked. Now this is "tobacco education" in Ontario, Canada. Now go to your child's class and look for the perspective in the teachings, you may not find it. I want analytical thinkers to continue to be normal, not sheeple.

[RIGHTWING WACKO FROM MASS.]

Marijuana is only illegal for taxation reasons. It’s not as dangerous as nicotene or alchohol. If the government could control it and it couldn’t be grown in your backyard believe me they would be subsudizing farmers to grow it and taxing the hell out of it.

[sourcery]

And how do you know which is correct: a) marijuana causes people to have psycho-emotional problems leading to self-destructive behavior, or b) people having psycho-emotional problems (that lead to self-destructive behavior) are attracted to drug use (and other taboo behaviors,) including marijuana?

Perhaps one reason people graduate from Marijuana to harder drugs is because a) they're told how bad Marijuana is, b) they try Marijuana, and so discover it's less harmful than alcohol, and c) the lie about Marijuana makes them believe what they've been told about the other drugs is also a lie (of course, for most of the other drugs, it's actually worse than they've been told.)

Where's your peer-reviewed research?

[irv]

The "trust us, we know better" approach doesn't turn teenagers into good citizens; it makes them bitter, angry and rebellious.

Actually, hormones make teenagers "bitter, angry and rebellious." That and the arrogance of youth, thinking they're adults when they still don't know anything.

Meanwhile, this article contained a fair dose of propaganda, too. He wasn't suspended for speech. He was suspended for leaving school for a protest instead of attending class. That's completely ordinary, predictable and okay.

Now is there any wonder why students no longer think before doing stuff?

They never did. They're young and stupid. Give them time. Eventually they'll be old and foolish.

[upchuck]

Education is supposed to nurture independent thought and the love of truth.

Sure it is. LOL

[robertpaulsen]

"Overblown warnings about the dangers of drugs, like those in the 1930s film "Reefer Madness," have never convinced young people."

What does that have to do with the school's presentation?

Unless the school was showing this 80-year-old film and claiming that it represents an accurate portral of the dangers of marijuana. Were they?

"He started questioning, out loud, whether cannabis is really more dangerous than legal drugs such as alcohol or tobacco"

What's his FReeper name?

I guess this numbnuts believes that alcohol and tobacco are the gold standards of legality and that everything less dangerous than these two products should be legal. That really opens the door, doesn't it?

That is, of course, assuming that we prohibit drugs based on how dangerous they are -- which we don't.

[Zon]

It should read: Student suspended for leaving school without authorization.

We shall indoctrinate your children.
We will tell them when to sit and when to stand
When to come and when to go.
What to do and for our bidding
We will use your children against you
In more ways than you can imagine.
Even you agree that it's for the children...
That we become the authority

[robertpaulsen]

"Education is supposed to nurture independent thought and the love of truth."

He's 15 years old. What does he know?

[AntiFed]

Wierd, all the people I know who smoke have degrees, lean Republican, and pay taxes. I think you were hanging out with the wrong crowd!

“Show me someone on drugs and I will show you someone who has other mental or emotional issues, some potentially more serious than taking drugs.”

Don’t forget physical issues! Its an extraordinary pain killer that actually interferes with neurological processing LESS than some other prescription types (in a broad spectrum IQ test, it only messes with spatial orientation, it may even marginally increase pattern-recognition). It IS pretty conclusive that about 15% of the people who use it will aggravate their existing risks/genetic tendancies toward laziness, psychosis and split-personality, but is that different than the 15% of alcohol users who end up perpetually drunk in some trailer park somewhere?

Heck, my old roomate’s dad smoked every day from high school and he was a self-made millionaire in the communications field by the time he was 30. His rule? Don’t smoke before the sun goes down.

Methinks you met some purely irresponsible people and made intuitive excuses for them.

[Magic Fingers]

About 80% of my pre-med classmates who continued on to med school also continued smoking marijuana, including a good friend who graduated from college in 3 years with a double major. While in med school (on an accelerated program) he also took law school courses at night. He graduated with honors and became a trauma surgeon. If only he’d stayed away from marijuana perhaps he’d have been a productive citizen!

[isthisnickcool]

Here is some more on this story where it's said the kid might have been dealing pot.

No matter what he was stupid for going outside the school on joining a protest with a group that advocates the use of pot.

[Nonstatist]

I’d rather be in a car with someone driving who has just had 3 cigarettes, as opposed to 3 joints. You’d have to be an IDIOT to think marijuana is less dangerous than cigarettes. An absolute idiot.

[Zon]

Actually, hormones make teenagers "bitter, angry and rebellious."

They know a lie when the see it. The kid in the article did anyhow. Getting bitter or angry when you learn you've been lied to is a typical adult response. 

What a thing to teach kids... teach them its bad to expose lies. 'cause they next thing you know, they'll be learning what propaganda is. Can't have that.

They do it to themselves. Irrationality begets irrationality. Voting for the lesser of evils still always begets evil. 

The circle is constricting on itself. Swirling toward the drain.. 

[skepsel]

That’s exactly how Horace Mann and other early “education reformers” sold publicly funded primary education, as a means to turn out solid little citizens for the Republic.
That’s what state schools always do, they manufacture citizens, Aryan ubermen, young “Soviet men” or anything else those running the apparat want.

[Wilhelm Tell]

Some drugs are worse than others, I would teach that they are all bad but meth is a heck of a lot worse than marijuana and heroine is worse than cigarettes.

That requires making distinctions but distinctions are not accepted in today's mentality that is part old-fashioned prohibitionist moralism and part nanny-state political correctness. You cannot talk to a fanatic about distinctions: all use of alcohol is as bad as using meth -- if you sip a glass of wine at dinner you are just as bad as the meth addict, etc. So of course it is seen as propaganda and the the fact that even "light" drugs like pot are bad is missed in the hysteria.

Telling kids that if they make a habit of marajuana they will end up at 30 years old, living in their parents' basement, too dull to hold a job, sleeping all day, etc. -- that would be more effective to scare kids away from drugs than to make dire predictions that one puff of pot will turn them into meth addicts.

That being said, I do not see pot as a harmless thing -- the few people I know who have made a habit of it all wound up living in poverty and living very mediocre lives. I don't accept the premise that "recreational" use of drugs is harmless. If you need drugs to have a "good time" then you lack imagination and have a very empty life.

[Wilhelm Tell]

You pot-smoking surgeon is the exception. Maybe he has a joint once in a great while and is not addicted. But why take the chance? I know several people who, as far as I know, are daily users of pot. Such people cannot hold down a job. I worked in a technical field and there was this co-worker who was bright but he got too much into marajuana and wound up messing up at work, not showing up at all, etc. and he was eventually fired. People who are addicted to pot become indifferent to everything.

For every example like your pot-smoking surgeon there are 1000 people living in trailer parks, living on welfare or at best working menial, minimum-wage jobs. I laugh whenever I hear someone say that marajuana makes him "more creative." Every one I have known who is addicted to it (admittedly I just know three or four people so it is not a scientific sample) -- every one of them is dull and not creative, unless you consider waking up at 3 PM creative.

[CharlesWayneCT]

According to the article, his crime wasn’t disagreeing with them, it was participating in a PROTEST about it outside during school hours.

His right to stand up to false teaching doesn’t include being allowed to play hookey or participate in a protest on school property, at least not in Canada.

[billbears]

Show me someone on drugs and I will show you someone who has other mental or emotional issues, some potentially more serious than taking drugs.

Currently my only emotional issue is that I am going to have to stand up and go across the room to get a beer. After all alcohol is a drug isn't it? Course the State gets its cut so it's an acceptable drug isn't it....

[starzed_]

Well that all depends on what your leveling the danger against, now doesn’t it?

Well if your driving I’d rather have a heavy cigarette smoker compared to a person who smoked lots of dope (personally). I’d say cigarettes are better for you.

If I was comparing the amount of tar I would also rather have a cigarette. You don’t inhale so deep, and cigarettes have a filter for tar.

Now if I was talking about having irritable bowel syndrome, well both helps actually helps the disease!

What kind of danger are you talking of? (be aware this is the same way that they are teaching your kids about the “dangers”) No they don’t tell you all the facts, just the facts they want to scare them without using perspective.

Why does it seem that “professionals” can’t put the whole issue into perspective for students? When they find a joint smoking executive (believe me in Canada we have a lot of them) who is doing well; how does the fear mongering and half of the facts (from only the perspective you want them to see) do to evaluate the situation? Especially since they aren’t allowed to ask any questions, or debate the ideas?

BTW The protest only happened after he was told by the principal to stop talking about the issue days earlier, at this point the principal also told his mother that he was selling dope. What was he suppose to do,stop mentioning his views or hold a protest?

There is no question of reason for “reefer Madness” being mentioned in article, when you have a principal who accuses student of selling drugs, trying to give perspective (before protest remember) and talk of the “facts as he sees them. I call that excessive (like in reefer madness), to call him a smoker, and seller for that.

Whether its a good or bad perspective should be talked about, not telling parent he sells and for the principal to tell the student to shut up.

[Not just another dumb blonde]

Years ago I was driving my son to a function at school. On the way he proceeded to tell me I was a drug addict and his father was an alcoholic. I was a drug addict because I smoke cigarettes and his father was an alcoholic because he had maybe three or four beers a year. Mind you, what caused me much consternation was the fact that my son was in the second grade. The school obviously failed to explain to my son the difference between something legal and something illegal. I did do some re-educating him on these topics. They shouldn’t even expose these kids to these teachings til they are old enough to understand these things.

[Not just another dumb blonde]

My fifteen year old knows alot more now that I took him out of public school. I actually like talking to him instead of at him. He’s much more mature than most of his contemporaries that still attend public school. And he’s learning to think for himself.....thank God. He is still lazy, but we’re working on that.

[Sender]

Reminds me of an old joke:

The teacher was lecturing a young class on the dangers of drinking alcohol when a young boy stood up and said, "My Paw drinks all the time and it ain't hurt him none."

The teacher could not convince the boy otherwise so she devised an experiment. She filled one glass with water and another with alcohol, and dropped a worm in each glass.

The worm in the water wriggled out, while the worm in the alcohol died.

"So," the teacher asked, "what can we learn from this?"

The boy replied, "My Paw won't never die from worms."

[bird4four4]

That is, of course, assuming that we prohibit drugs based on how dangerous they are -- which we don't.

We don't?  If they're not dangerous, then why the prohibition?  Please enlighten me, what is the basis for the prohibition then?

I believe it should be consistent with the CSA guidelines,  you seem to believe it should be based on whether or not it's a part of your culture or not.

 

CSA

(1) Its actual or relative potential for abuse.
(2) Scientific evidence of its pharmacological effect, if known.
(3) The state of current scientific knowledge regarding the drug or other substance.
(4) Its history and current pattern of abuse.
(5) The scope, duration, and significance of abuse.
(6) What, if any, risk there is to the public health.
(7) Its psychic or physiological dependence liability.
(8) Whether the substance is an immediate precursor of a substance already controlled under this title.

Cigarettes and Alcohol

1. Both are very abused
2. Evidence shows both to be very harmful with no medical value
3. same as above
4. history show millennia of abuse of both
5. abuse in some cases continues until the users kill themselves with it.
6. Both have tremendous public health risks
7. dependency for each is high
8. neither is a precursor

If they were honest they would have to make cigarettes illegal. Marihuana 

1. mild potential abuse
2. found favorable in many medical studies
3. volumes and centuries of scientific knowledge regarding substance.
4. history show very few long term abusers.
5. most abusers quit the drug by 30 years old.
6. mild public health risk.  None if done in private.
7. no physical dependence, mild psychological dependence.
8. not a precursor

I love your about page too.  You know Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.  are countries that officially have 'Morality Police' Nice to know whose side you would be on.

 

[robertpaulsen]

"I believe it should be consistent with the CSA guidelines"

Same here. Though your assessment is, to be kind, questionable.

"you seem to believe it should be based on whether or not it's a part of your culture or not."

Not at all. I was pointing out to the poster one reason why he shouldn't put marijuana in the same category as alcohol and tobacco. To say, "Since alcohol and tobacco are legal, why not marijuana?" is ludicrous. What does the one have to do with the other two?

[robertpaulsen]

"The boy replied, "My Paw won't never die from worms."

A three-legged dog walks into an Old West bar, looks around and says, "I'm lookin' fer the man that shot my paw!"

[dfwgator]

[tacticalogic]

What does the one have to do with the other two?

They can all be "found to substantially affect interstate commerce" by Congress.

[bird4four4]

your assessment is, to be kind, questionable

Please feel free to set me straight.

pointing out to the poster one reason why he shouldn't put marijuana in the same category as alcohol and tobacco

I'm pointing out that drugs should be held to the same standard. Your response to why they are not held to the same standard is that it is a part of your culture. That's bad law and bad precedent.

[robertpaulsen]

"I'm pointing out that drugs should be held to the same standard."

The same SET of standards. As outlined in the CSA. And I told you I agree.

"Your response to why they are not held to the same standard is that it is a part of your culture."

Again, no. I said that because alcohol and tobacco are dangerous yet legal is no reason for marijuana to be legal.

Who said alcohol and tobacco are the new gold standards of legality? If a drug is less dangerous than them, legal. More dangerous? Illegal.

"Please feel free to set me straight."

Congress and the Attorney General already have. And they're the ones that count.

[Jakarta ex-pat]

I think the guy wasn't brave.

That was what life over 20 years ago in education

Used to be like.

No more.

Hell, even the teachers can't question nowadays.

[Moonman62]

That's why baseless propaganda, like the old movie Reefer Madness, doesn't work.

It is very old movie, and nobody seems to ever bring it up except for the drug addicts and their friends.

[bird4four4]

I said that because alcohol and tobacco are dangerous yet legal is no reason for marijuana to be legal.

No, what you said is you cannot compare marijuana to alcohol and tobacco...The reason being that alcohol is part of our culture

I think that is a load of crap.  Just because alcohol is part of your culture you can't compare it to other intoxicants?  I believe they should be held to the same SET of standards. Obviously you believe that if its your culture you should not be held to that standard, and the AG and congress feel the same way. Laws are for the little people.

[robertpaulsen]

"It is very old movie, and nobody seems to ever bring it up except for the drug addicts and their friends."

Plus, it was a privately made movie (a church group financed it), not government propaganda.

That's like saying the movie Them! was used by in public schools by the federal government to teach kids what would happen if they played with nuclear weapons by an ant hill. Such "baseless propaganda" with "overblown warnings". Our kids will never believe us again!