Posted on 06/22/2007 9:58:07 AM PDT by Dubya
BAGHDAD, IRAQ — U.S. soldiers working the streets of the capital fear one Iraqi weapon more than others — copper-plated explosives that can penetrate armor and have proved devastating to Humvees and are even capable of severely damaging tanks.
The power of EFPs, explosively formed penetrators or projectiles, to spray molten metal balls that punch through the armor on vehicles has some American soldiers rethinking their tactics. Some are asking whether the U.S. should give up its reliance on constant improvements to vehicle defenses.
(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...
These things are not new, they are decades old technology, and we have been talking about them for months here.
http://www.afrlhorizons.com/Briefs/Dec04/MN0407.html
Make your armor thicker, and somebody’s going to find a way to punch a hole in it. Welcome to the arms race.
The problem isn’t the tank armor or the EFPs themselves. The problem is where they’re getting them...and that’s Iran.
}:-)4
The EFPs in Iraq are coming from Iran.
its..a.iranian..proxy..war
Every time a bomb kills one of our troops, a mushroom should sprout in Iran.
I think we should bomb Iran until this problem goes away.....
Los Angles Times seem to have journalists that don’t even do their homework, worth a “F” if their articles were submited for the journalist 101 course.
Aren't these EFP's essentially a shaped charge projectile...which is the technology pioneered in the WWII Bazooka?
fear one Iraqi weapon more than others — copper-plated explosive
Iraqi!? No those weapons are not homemade camel-dung blasters... they are serial produced in IRAN.
What ever happened to the War on Terror meaning that we would go to war with those arming and financing the terrorists as George W. Bush originally told us we would do in the War on Terror?
Also why is Al-Sadr like Osama, still alive?
How long does it really take us to identify and eliminate enemies?
Can't win a war being PC, isn't that what we found out in Nam?
Because the IEDs are being set off primarily by either trip wire or frequency-emitting cell phones and garage openers, would not it make sense to develop cheap robotic signal generators that can mimic the frequencies and trip the wires ahead of the armor vehicles? Anybody?
What ever happened to the War on Terror meaning that we would go to war with those arming and financing the terrorists as George W. Bush originally told us we would do in the War on Terror?
Also why is Al-Sadr like Osama, still alive?
How long does it really take us to identify and eliminate enemies?
Can't win a war being PC, isn't that what we found out in Nam?
I’m sure our intelligence knows where these are being made and the route to get them to Iraq.
Change the ROE and bomb the areas in question.
What could be wrong with stopping this by going to the source?
Already being done.
See post #14
"Every attempt to make war easy and safe will result in humiliation and disaster." --William Tecumseh Sherman
This discussion should not be taking place.....There’s no way in hell our guys should be exposed to road bombs or anything else in their archaic bag of tricks....
Good idea and let's not stop there. Let's nuke also the countries that manufacture the AK47s, RPGs, small arms ammunition etc that kill our troops also.
Hell, drop a nuke or two on the USA also because I'm sure many of the small arms the insurgents use are the ones that were issued to them while in training by our troops.
Everyone here knows we are not playing hardball with these bastards...and they know it and use it! Our P.C. pantywaste
politicians are at fault!
"If you're going to take Vienna, take Vienna!"Napoleon Bonaparte
A political party won control of Congress based upon a platform of tying his hands - including attempting to make him promise not to attack Iran.
Nah, let’s organize a big circle jerk and do nothing about them.
It seems they've taken your advice :-)
The shaped charge is an application of the "Munroe effect" which was first observed by Charles Edward Munroe in 1888. In essence the principle discovered by Munroe was that curving the surface of a high explosive allowed the shock-wave generated by a subsequent explosion to be focused much like a lens focuses light.
Most shaped charges in practical use are cased in metal since the focused blast wave vaporises the metal into a jet with better penetration then the blast wave alone. As you noted, Bazooka projectiles and RPGs utilize this effect. Another use is the implosion nuclear bomb in which "lenticular" shaped charges are used to compress a sub-critical sphere of Pu239 to a super-critical density, triggering a chain reaction detonation of the nuclear device.
There is a related device which consists of a high explosive charge encased in a rigid tube with one end open. The open end has a solid metal disk centered on the explosive. When the explosive is detonated the blast wave propels the disk outward at hypersonic velocity. The flat disk propels a column of compressed air heated to ten thousand degrees or more ahead of it. The "platter charge" as it is known, allows greater stand-off distances then simple shaped charges and are fairly easy to fabricate. In principle, it is rather like a single shot gun wherein the projectile is a plasma torch.
Regards,
GtG
Bingo.
Kinda makes you wonder where President Bush's tough talk against "states that sponsor terrorism" (his post-9/11 speech) went, doesn't it?
If nothing else the current administration has probably learned that just because you plan something a certain way, no matter how carefully you plan, doesn’t mean that’s how it’s going to go.
Sherman provided a contingent of CSA prisoners with shovels and picks, and put them in the lead, clearing the route of march.
Certainly, putting uniformed enemy combatants in such peril would be a violation of current laws of land warfare. AQ and their ilk are not uniformed service members. Certainly, we have enough prisoners for a few chain gangs to clear the road and a wide shoulder along many of the MSRs, and a truck full of prisoners placed at random in each convoy might start making things a bit problematic for the would be bombers...
There’s a solution available here that applies to problems eslewhere:
CLOSE THE DAMN BORDER!!!!!!
I love that solution! It would be particularly fitting for AQ since they seem to reject any conceivable law of warfare.
Sherman also said, "If the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war, and not popularity seeking."
Sherman (and Grant) also enjoyed a chief executive who let his generals fight the war (once he found a couple that would take the fight to the enemy) and avoided micromanaging them from Washington.
Having said all that, I really think that our own reconstruction era, moreso than the war itself, holds a lot of lessons we could really learn from and apply in our present situation, yet I've not heard one policy maker, think tank, commentator, law maker etc., make so much as a passing reference, and I fear many of the fundamental mistakes of that era will be repeated.
GtG: Good info. Thanks! You just became my go to guy on
munitions questions.
The MSM will be all over it. But only after the fact.
God, I do hope Sherman has been reincarnated and has at least a couple of stars on his collar. We'll need him.
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