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No Organic Bee Losses (Solution to bee colony collapse?)
Information Liberation ^ | 05-10-07

Posted on 05/29/2007 8:36:43 AM PDT by cposnarkey

Most of us beekeepers are fighting with the Varroa mites. I'm happy to say my biggest problems are things like trying to get nucs through the winter and coming up with hives that won't hurt my back from lifting or better ways to feed the bees.

This change from fighting the mites is mostly because I've gone to natural sized cells. In case you weren't aware, and I wasn't for a long time, the foundation in common usage results in much larger bees than what you would find in a natural hive. I've measured sections of natural worker brood comb that are 4.6mm in diameter. What most people use for worker brood is foundation that is 5.4mm in diameter. If you translate that into three dimensions instead of one, it produces a bee that is about half as large again as is natural. By letting the bees build natural sized cells, I have virtually eliminated my Varroa and Tracheal mite problems. One cause of this is shorter capping times by one day, and shorter post-capping times by one day. This means less Varroa get into the cells, and less Varroa reproduce in the cells.

Who should be surprised that the major media reports forget to tell us that the dying bees are actually hyper-bred varieties that we coax into a larger than normal body size? It sounds just like the beef industry. And, have we here a solution to the vanishing bee problem? Is it one that the CCD Working Group

(Excerpt) Read more at informationliberation.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Technical
KEYWORDS: bees; colonycollapse
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1 posted on 05/29/2007 8:36:45 AM PDT by cposnarkey
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To: cposnarkey

I have noticed that the occasional honeybee I see hanging around my garden is much smaller that they used to be. I wondered about that.


2 posted on 05/29/2007 8:43:13 AM PDT by weezel
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To: cposnarkey

Sounds like you need to change the size of the supers as well. Hope it works. Mason bees are an alternative, but it sounds like they are not a full season pollinator.


3 posted on 05/29/2007 8:43:26 AM PDT by Pete from Shawnee Mission
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To: cposnarkey

There’s some real pip Lefties having coronaries in the comments section for this article. Don’t miss the spectacle, FReepers.


4 posted on 05/29/2007 8:44:08 AM PDT by atomicpossum (Replies must follow approved guidelines or you will be kill-filed without appeal.)
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To: cposnarkey

Very interesting article.

I live on 33 acres with a small orchard surrounded by redwood forests. Twice this spring we have seen huge swarms of bees, many thousands, hovering in the orchard, and then they veer off into the forest. I’m wondering if those are “wild” bees who have a hive nearby.

Welcome to FreeRepublic, by the way.


5 posted on 05/29/2007 8:47:18 AM PDT by EggsAckley
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To: Pete from Shawnee Mission

You know, when these collapse stories came out, the first thing I thought about was the fact that these mega-keepers put these hives in 18 wheel trucks and ship them from one coast to the other, and that can’t be good. Intermingling that many bees, countrywide in the span of a season is not good for their immune systems. They weren’t made for that kind of assault.


6 posted on 05/29/2007 8:48:20 AM PDT by cposnarkey
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To: cposnarkey

Heard about this honeybee industrialization from Richard C. Hoagland a couple weeks ago. That’s right, the Face on Mars guy. He mentioned the exact same cell dimensions as this article.


7 posted on 05/29/2007 8:49:51 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Treaty)
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To: cposnarkey

So Richard Hoagland was right about the cell size? http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/243421/to_bee_or_not_to_bee_that_is_the_question.html


8 posted on 05/29/2007 8:53:40 AM PDT by mission9 (Be a citizen worth living for, in a Nation worth dying for...)
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To: RightWhale
I think Hoagland is almost right, because he noted two things about the "industrialized" bees: 1) they've been sprayed a lot with fumigants to kill off parasites and 2) the "industrialized" bees are way too big for their own good. Note that the organic bees are still thriving extremely well, and organic bee farmers have not reported any heavy loss of bees.
9 posted on 05/29/2007 9:01:09 AM PDT by RayChuang88
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To: cposnarkey

A lot of interesting back and forth on the supposed/proposed solution to the problem in the comments section at the link. IMHO enough insight/information to be worth reading.


10 posted on 05/29/2007 9:09:32 AM PDT by Captain Rhino ( Dollars spent in India help a friend; dollars spent in China arm an enemy.)
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To: cposnarkey

Somebody explain to me please why I suddenly have fat, slow, two-inch-long monster wasps or bees or whatever in my house. The Maryland cooperative extension service, which is supposed to know about hymenoptera, denies that this is possible.


11 posted on 05/29/2007 9:10:43 AM PDT by Fairview ( Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.)
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To: weezel

I’ve been trying to get some photos of the bee swarm that I get every year. They are much smaller than a honey bee...and louder.


12 posted on 05/29/2007 9:11:33 AM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: RayChuang88

IIRC, beekeepers seem to mostly use the same small number of species, so not much genetic variation available in case of trouble. It’s not nice to fool Mother Nature!


13 posted on 05/29/2007 9:14:06 AM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: EggsAckley

The only wild hive I ever saw was in the Golden Gate Recreation Area, which must not be far off from you.

Mrs VS


14 posted on 05/29/2007 9:14:35 AM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: cposnarkey

My suburban home is semi rural and we have lots of natural bees around no shortage for our gardens at all


15 posted on 05/29/2007 9:15:32 AM PDT by ears_to_hear
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To: VeritatisSplendor

Hmmm.....I am probably about 70 miles south of that area. Interesting.


16 posted on 05/29/2007 9:16:51 AM PDT by EggsAckley
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To: Fairview

Someone explain to me why a knot of four small wasps plummeted from the sky or the trees bounced off my head and into my tea this morning. Ick.

Mrs VS


17 posted on 05/29/2007 9:17:17 AM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: Fairview

Is it a hornet? Maybe you have a hornet nest in your walls or chimney.


18 posted on 05/29/2007 9:18:30 AM PDT by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we write in marble. JHuett)
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To: VeritatisSplendor
Perhaps they were all engaged in deviant sexual behavior. lol
19 posted on 05/29/2007 9:23:40 AM PDT by verity (Muhammed and Harry Reid are Dirt Bags)
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To: Fairview

Are they Carpenter Bees?

http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2074.html

Look for 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch round holes in the exterior woodwork on your house. The males who ‘patrol’ the area cannot sting, but the females who stay in the nest can sting when aggravated.


20 posted on 05/29/2007 9:34:07 AM PDT by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: EggsAckley
>I’m wondering if those are “wild” bees who have a hive nearby.<

Very likely that they do. Question #1 Does the orchard owner put out bee hives within the orchard? If the answer is no then “very likely” will go to “most definitely”.

21 posted on 05/29/2007 9:34:42 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.)
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To: Fairview
Somebody explain to me please why I suddenly have fat, slow, two-inch-long monster wasps or bees or whatever in my house.

The Ichnuemon Wasp, perhaps?

I've occasionally seen these, or something more bee-like, in my yard. The long thing is an ovipositor.

22 posted on 05/29/2007 9:34:53 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: cposnarkey

Hmmmmm...


23 posted on 05/29/2007 9:36:44 AM PDT by null and void ("Wherever liberty has sprouted around the world, we find American blood at its roots.")
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To: Fairview
It isn’t possible.

Report to re-education, Citizen...

24 posted on 05/29/2007 9:38:43 AM PDT by null and void ("Wherever liberty has sprouted around the world, we find American blood at its roots.")
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To: VeritatisSplendor
Someone explain to me why a knot of four small wasps plummeted from the sky or the trees bounced off my head and into my tea this morning.

They were in mid-orgy.

Although you were probably happier not knowing that...

25 posted on 05/29/2007 9:40:32 AM PDT by null and void ("Wherever liberty has sprouted around the world, we find American blood at its roots.")
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To: B4Ranch

It’s my orchard and I do not have any hives. There once was a neighbor about a mile away who had bees, but that was about a decade ago.


26 posted on 05/29/2007 9:40:53 AM PDT by EggsAckley
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To: verity
Oddly enough, they really were. Except the mating flight isn’t deviant for hive builders...
27 posted on 05/29/2007 9:42:01 AM PDT by null and void ("Wherever liberty has sprouted around the world, we find American blood at its roots.")
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To: cposnarkey

How can anyone have “organic” bees? Do they control where the bees get pollen and nectar? Unless you have the hives on a very large property which you control, I don’t think so. The bees could easily go to neighboring properties where non-organic practices are used.


28 posted on 05/29/2007 9:47:11 AM PDT by knuthom
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To: RayChuang88

So you are not buying the multi-dimensional bee antenna theory?


29 posted on 05/29/2007 9:50:50 AM PDT by mission9 (Be a citizen worth living for, in a Nation worth dying for...)
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To: cposnarkey

Thanks, this led me to some very fascinating reading.


30 posted on 05/29/2007 9:53:00 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

yes, it’s good to have some (possibly) good news for a change.


31 posted on 05/29/2007 9:57:06 AM PDT by cposnarkey
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To: Fairview

Those would be cicada killer wasps. They live in the ground, digging burrows with piles of dirt around the entrance. They kill cicadas and drag them down into the burrow. Otherwise, they are harmless. It’s been dry in Maryland, so they are active earlier than usual.


32 posted on 05/29/2007 10:02:07 AM PDT by IndispensableDestiny
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To: knuthom

I suppose organic bees build their own comb, and don’t get chemical treatment for mites.

It would be interesting to run an experiment using ready-made comb with smaller cell sizes. However, beekeepers have been using the ready-made comb for years without a bee die-off. Some synergy at work now, maybe - or maybe just coincidence.

Mrs VS


33 posted on 05/29/2007 10:15:33 AM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: atomicpossum
From 142.68.XXX.XXX :

"One of the earlier reports attributed the loss of bee colonies on cellular phones. I'm not that familiar with all the technical aspects of beekeeping, but why do bees need cell phones? Could we solve the problem by taking their phones away?"

This has got to be an undercover FReeper.

34 posted on 05/29/2007 10:21:53 AM PDT by labette
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To: EggsAckley

The bees will build there hives in wind protected locations not very deep in the forest. Generally the hive entrances are less than 15 feet above the ground.

On a sunny day when the wind is mild get a pair of binoculars and sit on the edge of the orchard on top of a step ladder where you can see above the orchard trees.

This will allow you to watch the bees come and go from their hives. In 30 minutes or so you will be able to determine the air trails (where they fly in straight lines back and forth to the hive) they are using.

It is easiest if you watch only for bees that are flying out of the orchard. They are loaded with pollen and want to unload it, so their trails are the straightest.


35 posted on 05/29/2007 10:23:54 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.)
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To: B4Ranch

Thank you so much for the information. We were really hoping that seeing these swarms meant that there is a hive nearby, give the current bee “crisis.”

It’s exciting to know this.

Thanks again.


36 posted on 05/29/2007 10:32:51 AM PDT by EggsAckley
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To: Fairview
Somebody explain to me please why I suddenly have fat, slow, two-inch-long monster wasps or bees or whatever in my house.

Your cat leaves the back door open when you are out.........OR, they might be a "steel blue cricket hunter"

"

Does it look like this?

37 posted on 05/29/2007 10:36:33 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco
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To: Fairview
Somebody explain to me please why I suddenly have fat, slow, two-inch-long monster wasps or bees or whatever in my house.

Sounds like what we call, "locust hunters" They are almost harmless unless you sit on a female. THe males don't have stingers.

38 posted on 05/29/2007 10:37:40 AM PDT by carenot (Proud member of The Flying Skillet Brigade)
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To: Fairview

Chances are this is one of the solitary bee’s that do no harm they are not aggressive and so not sting.
http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/nativebee.html#sweat


39 posted on 05/29/2007 10:37:41 AM PDT by scottteng (Proud parent of a Star scout.)
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To: Fairview

It is a species of wood wasp that burrows into specific species of trees. They are supposed to be relatively docile and non aggressive.

We noticed alot of them last year. Never saw them before and haven’t seen them since.


40 posted on 05/29/2007 10:39:53 AM PDT by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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To: mewzilla
IIRC, beekeepers seem to mostly use the same small number of species, so not much genetic variation available in case of trouble.

It doesn't matter what breeds the beekeeper has, drones come from all over and visit hives and do the mateing flight with any new queen that takes off.
Most bee keepers buy new, bred queens every year or two.

41 posted on 05/29/2007 10:44:39 AM PDT by carenot (Proud member of The Flying Skillet Brigade)
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To: savedbygrace
Fairly easy solution to Carpenter Bees.

Checkout the pesticide section of your hardware store. Look for termite and carpenter ant killer (contains bifenthrin). It also prevents/kills carpenter bees.

42 posted on 05/29/2007 11:11:18 AM PDT by fireforeffect (A kind word and a 2x4, gets you more than just a kind word.)
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To: EggsAckley

When searching for their hives, take note of storm damaged trees where a large limb has split from the trunk. That part of the tree will often rot and then other birds and bugs will further damage the tree, hollowing it. Bingo, an ideal place for a hive.

If the hive is a small one leave it alone for a couple of years. The bees eat the honey during the winter months, so be sure not to take all their food supply. Then as it expands you should be able to remove 1/4 to 1/3 each year without doing major damage to the hive. The’ll rebuild it each year.

If the weather is tough on the orchard flower crop, resulting in a major reduction of pollen, that is a good year to leave the hive unmolested.

Have fun, enjoy the pure honey.


43 posted on 05/29/2007 1:59:08 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.)
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To: atomicpossum

“There’s some real pip Lefties having coronaries in the comments section for this article. Don’t miss the spectacle, FReepers.”

“Isn’t it a good thing that the inorganic bees are dying?
The thought of artificial robo-bees terrifies me.”

Way far gone in the ozone.

Now this guy is a hoot!

“. No trucks, no antibiotics, we thought good thoughts and gave money to Greenpeace, but they still died.”


44 posted on 05/29/2007 2:06:58 PM PDT by dljordan
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To: mission9

That theory is a bit too far-out. But the oversized “industrial” bees and the overuse of fumigants on these bees makes much more sense from a conventional scientific point of view.


45 posted on 05/29/2007 5:34:07 PM PDT by RayChuang88
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To: B4Ranch
I take all the honey supers off and feed them sugar syrup in the winter. Seems to work well for me, but then again I only have a couple of hives. My theory is that beekeeping is a lot like socialism. I provide free food, housing, and health care, but if they manage to make any honey it belongs to ME.

I am not convinced about the cell size argument. Those sizes were worked out a long, long time ago and apparently they were not a problem before. I think it’s the mites or maybe some other pathogen.

Have any of you beekeepers tried a top bar hive?

http://www2.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm

I want to put in a third hive next year, and I’m thinking about trying this.

46 posted on 05/29/2007 6:27:53 PM PDT by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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To: cposnarkey

Bee Feed Tested for Pet Food Taints - (Colony Collapse Disorder)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1836058/posts


47 posted on 05/29/2007 6:58:05 PM PDT by quietolong
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To: beef
I have seen commercial beekeepers using wooden benches to set the hives on out in the fields over in Kalifornia. Very similar to this system.
48 posted on 05/29/2007 7:55:12 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.)
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To: beef

How would you feed a wild hive that’s up in a tree in the winter if you didn’t know exactly how big it was? Not something you’ve got in the shed out back where you can check on them every couple of weeks.


49 posted on 05/29/2007 7:58:55 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.)
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To: cposnarkey

btt


50 posted on 05/29/2007 9:31:26 PM PDT by Marie (Unintended consequences.)
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