Progress in the fight to stop the NAU and NAFTA Highway

Canada Free Press ^ | May 5, 2007 | Tom DeWeese,

[hedgetrimmer]

A tiny but determined band of organizations and individuals are standing up to Goliath and are beginning to see his knees wobble.

Goliath is the globalist-inspired Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP) - better known as the North American Union (NAU) and the Trans Texas Corridor (TCC) - also know as the NAFTA Highway.

To date a dozen states have introduced resolutions to oppose the SPP and the NAU. Some states have also included language to oppose creation of a new currency called the Amero. Also opposed in most of the resolutions is the super highway (TCC) to run from Laredo, Texas all the way to Kansas City and more. Specifically, all of the resolutions are reacting to a wide range of concepts and structures dealing with the integration of North America into one "harmonized" union.

The states where resolutions have been introduced include Arizona, Georgia, Illinois, Missouri, Montana, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia and Washington.

[hedgetrimmer]

Meanwhile, we must also encourage every state legislature to pass resolutions against the whole concept of a North American Union.

Its time for the rest of us to get to work!

[hedgetrimmer]

PING

[stopem]

It’s a GLOBALIST thing!

No more Globalist Administrations.

[hedgetrimmer]

From free trade to deep integration

For research. Note that National Security is a "barrier to trade".

[TomGuy]

The states where resolutions have been introduced include Arizona, Georgia, Illinois, Missouri, Montana, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia and Washington

Also, states with related legislation under consideration: Oklahoma, Texas.

The Texas legislature reportedly has put a hold on the TransHighway, pending a 2-year study/reconsideration.

[Kenny Bunk]

Isn’t it amazing that State Legislatures are reacting to something some folks on this site don’t believe even exists? Move along please, nothing to see here.

[jpsb]

"Isn’t it amazing that State Legislatures are reacting to something some folks on this site don’t believe even exists? "

Amazing isn't it?

[TomGuy]

Isn’t it amazing that State Legislatures are reacting to something some folks on this site don’t believe even exists?

Careful. Or Thee shalt upset thy bots and thou shalt be declared an heretic and thou shalt be driven to retraining re-education camp.

[Dog Gone]

Which kook states have passed resolutions regarding the “Amero”?

[jpsb]

I don’t know, just thought I ping you to a NAU thread.

[Dog Gone]

I appreciate it. I haven’t been on one in awhile. They are always entertaining.

[jpsb]

Well then I will ping you a bit more often. personally I think the momentum’s been slowed considerably. The ruling elite still want a NAU, but the little people sure don’t. And the little people are beginning to make some noise.

[texastoo]

Your link is interesting. It looks like a repeat of the free trade agreements of NAFTA, CAFTA and the FTAA except this looks like the NWO all the way.

Does anyone really believe that all of these countries will play by the rules?

The great conservative, Barry Goldwater, is probably jumping up and down in his grave. He spoke of this trade in his 1964 acceptance speech at the Republican Convention.

http://www.nationalcenter.org/Goldwater.html

Excerpt...

“I can see, and I suggest that all thoughtful men must contemplate, the flowering of an Atlantic civilization, the whole world of Europe reunified and free, trading openly across its borders, communicating openly across the world.

It is a goal far, far more meaningful than a moon shot. It’s a truly inspiring goal for all free men to set for themselves during the latter half of the twentieth century. I can also see, and all free men must thrill to, the events of this Atlantic civilization joined by a straight ocean highway to the United States. What a destiny! What a destiny can be ours to stand as a great central pillar linking Europe, the Americans, and the venerable and vital peoples and cultures of the Pacific!

I can see a day when all the Americas, North and South, will be linked in a mighty system-a system in which the errors and misunderstandings of the past will be submerged one by one in a rising tide of prosperity and interdependence.”

There is that word “interdependence”. What a joke!

[texastoo]

Isn’t it amazing that State Legislatures are reacting to something some folks on this site don’t believe even exists?

It was announced on 60 Minutes that Lou Dobbs will be on the Early Show every morning. He will definitely announce the NAU.

[untrained skeptic]

State legislators, not legislatures.

Notice that is says that legislation has been introduced in those states. It doesn't mentioning any bills being passed or even such legislation making its way out of committee.

I'm also curious exactly what they are opposing. Where is the legislation proposing the NAU? How about legislation to create this mythical Amero currency?

Now the Trans Texas Corridor project does exist. The horror of wanting to create transportation infrastructure to stimulate trade! However, such a project will effect the local communities that it passes through with both positive and negative effects, so I'm sure that many have good reasons to oppose it.

But I'm not a stick my head in the sand isolationist, and I do have this awful habit of asking for solid facts, not conspiracy theories, so feel free to consider me among those who don't believe the NAU exists.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

For all it’s faults, my state of Maryland has not joined in this madness.

[Raymann]

I think people need to spell out what their opposed it. Are you opposed to a NAU on it’s face? I don’t think most people here are especially if it will result in increased federalism with more power to the states. For instance, if we can end up with a system where each state/province has independent healthcare systems with nothing on the federal level, I would support a NAU.

Even without that, I do support an EU style monetary union. If we can’t get rid of the Federal Reserve we might as well try and make it work like a bank should. And it wouldn’t be called the ‘Amero’ any. One, it sounds stupid; and two, the US and Canada already call their money dollars and Mexico used to. Besides, we all use the dollar sign $.

My dream goal of course is a United States of North America:)

[Kenny Bunk]

I do have this awful habit of asking for solid facts, not conspiracy theories, so feel free to consider me among those who don't believe the NAU exists.

Skep, you are OK! We do need facts, such as the factr that State Legislatures are NOT in on the action, just some State Legislators.

And Skep, no one is against stimulating trade, unless of course it is to the disadvantage of us Americans. What we are against is the undeniably ünder-the-radar"approach our beloved government has taken to achieve these goals, which may indeed be splendid, for all we know.

Which of course begs the question: "If this is all so great, how about telling us ALL about it"... publicly?" The North American Union is in a long painful gestation. I have no confidence that it is the BEST way to secure our hemisphere and keep Mexico from becoming Venezuela North. We have to do something about Mexico, because Mexico hasn't the capacity (Laws, Tradition, and Infrastructure) to prevent a catastrophic implosion that will harm us a lot more drastically and quickly than this slow demographic takeover of our country.

The question is "What the Hell do we do?" The government is saying ""NAU"" in a very undemocratic way.

[quietolong]

Be wary of food items from China
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1822637/posts

It’s funny they want to force farmers to tag and register everything But..

Animal ID Makers in Hog Heaven (long but good)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1574414/posts

All livestock to be registered with state [WI-Yes, fish too] ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1509267/posts

I think you are seeing the reasons why they want foreign governments and corps. to run OUR ports, Super highway up from Mexico foreign trucks & drivers.

Americans would stop delivering & unloading ships. To protest this.

Not registering
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1828765/posts

This is not only Clinton’s fault but also the Bush’s fault.
I’m exasperated up with the lot.

[Czar]

Saw this one earlier today, hedge — thanks.

[Czar]

"Note that National Security is a "barrier to trade".

As is national sovereignty.

Too effin' bad...

[Czar]

"...some folks on this site don’t believe even exists?"

Yes, you mean the ones who used to say we were all paranoid and there was really nothing to fear.

Haven't heard from this crowd of free traders lately. Some of them may have recently withdrawn or opus'd out (good riddance)...

[hedgetrimmer]

That is a very interesting quote. You always have informative posts and clearly do your research very thoroughly.

Good to hear from you!

[hedgetrimmer]

Where is the legislation proposing the NAU?

Almost all of the government 'reforms'(read re-engineering America for global socialism) dating from the Carter administration, are dictated through the executive branch. They don't give a fig for using constitutional means to remake America in grand globalist style. They don't need the hassle.

[Kenny Bunk]

......dictated through the executive branch......

Think of Mexico as an old car with a dead 6 V battery; a car in which a dead battery is probably the least of the problems. The NAU is our government's attempt to jump-start Mexico. Unfortunately, you know what can happen to your car if you put the cables from a healthy 12V to a really dead 6V. Two dead cars!

The Mexican government solution to their problem is a lot simpler, and for them a lot more effective. While we're messing about with the cables, changing their tires, and maybe a squirt or two of ether, they're sending the passengers in their uncountable millions north on foot!

[untrained skeptic]

Few here will deny the Mexico's economic problems and class divisions are causing serious problems for us here in the US.

Mexico is not a poor country as a whole. It has huge amounts of wealth in the hands of a few, and those few have great power in that country due to controlling that wealth.

Mexicans do not have the opportunity at home that we have here. The do not have capital available to them to start a new business, and even if they did they would find it very difficult to grow that business very large because the elite and rich in Mexico do not welcome new blood.

In order to deal with the huge problem of illegal immigration we need to enforce our immigration laws as well as border security, border security, and more border security. However, we also need to help change the economic situation in Mexico to remove some of the pressure for their people to come here.

By creating free trade between our countries as well as forcing Mexico to accept some outside investment, we loosen the grasp that the elite in Mexico have over the economy and the wealth there. We give the Mexican people other people to deal with. We give them opportunity.

At the same time we need to enforce our immigration laws so that the Mexican people who want more out of life are forced to seek it at home and are forced to change their own country rather than pulling our country down into the mess that they have made of theirs.

However, any time we make any efforts to encourage trade with Mexico the anti-NAU people get up in arms.

You say these people aren't against free trade, but from what I have seen is that the believers in the NAU conspiracy (or at least the people pushing the theory) are isolationists. They are against free trade. Any time you start talking about making trade agreements, they say that American is forfeiting its sovereignty. Apparently the only way they believe that we can maintain our sovereignty is to refuse to make any commitments or accept responsibilities.

It's basically taking the concept of freedom through having no responsibilities and using it on a national level instead of a personal one.

Our legislature and our government as a whole is definitely not a unified front on any issue. You will always find some legislator trying to undermine our nation in some way, and that is something that we must fight against. You will find that there are people in the State department who blame the United States for everything, and seek to undermine our efforts to secure our own interests. I'm not suggesting that such people don't exist.

However, the NAU conspiracy theory is being used not to fight against a real possibility of our Constitution being thrown out and us becoming part of some continental or hemispherical government, where where our votes are diluted and our independence subverted.

The threat of the NAU is being used to argue against just about any trade agreements or cooperation with our neighboring countries, because it might be a step on the path to the NAU. But when you press for details, it's not that the trade agreement or other agreement itself undermines our sovereignty, but that it is a step on that path, or that it might be extended in the future in such a was as to do so.

I'm definitely an opponent of a NAU. I would like to see much of the power that the Federal government has unconstitutionally stolen from the states returned to them. The NAU would be a big step in the wrong direction.

But what I see is the threat of the NAU being used to push for isolationism and protectionism. That is also a step in the wrong direction. Tariffs and trade barriers are another tool our federal government often used to exert control over it's own people, not just over foreigners. Be very careful about what you ask your government to do.

[hedgetrimmer]

Tariffs and trade barriers were used for nearly 300 years by the people of this country to make their economy the envy of the world. After only 15 years of globalist run “free trade”, communist China is poised to overtake our economy and socialist India is running a close second.

What eurosocialist “free trade” is doing is destroying the domestic economy in the US and resdistributing our wealth to fund the takeover of the global economy by China. No American in his right mind can support this.

That doesn’t even take into account the current assault on our food supply with contaminated foods, also brought to you by “free trade” and the forced compromise of our phytosanitary rules due to “free trade” which were considered a “trade barrier” by the globalists. Bring back trade barriers I say, and give American citizens sovereignty again!

[Kenny Bunk]

This Mexico may well be a hopeless case.

Mexico hasn't the capacity to BE helped in its present form. There isn't the Law, The Societal Tradition, nor The Infrastructure (Mental and Physical) to USE the kind of help we can give.

I am convinced that our government's rationale for illegal immigration is the "safety valve" effect it has on Mexican society. The $30Billion a year in money orders sent South doesn't hurt, either!

There is some progress in Mexico, and there are good people in its government. But the progress is agonizingly slow and all it is doing on a practical level is increasing the population.

There is no doubt that very soon, (NO MATTER WHAT WE DO WITH THE BORDER FROM TODAY FORWARD!) in historical terms, our population will be heavily Mexicanized (say 30%). of course no one likes the idea, but it's just arithmetic. In all probability, there will be some sort of federal union between the two countries, or rather between the regions and states of the two countries.

Like a poker hand, that's neither a good thing, nor a bad thing. How are we going to play it?

[Toddsterpatriot]

After only 15 years of globalist run “free trade”, communist China is poised to overtake our economy and socialist India is running a close second.

If you really think China's $2.5 trillion economy and India's $800 billion economy are poised to overtake our $13 trillion economy, you're worse at math than I thought.

[untrained skeptic]

While we're messing about with the cables, changing their tires, and maybe a squirt or two of ether, they're sending the passengers in their uncountable millions north on foot!

The solution to that is obvious. We don't let the export their problems to us.

We enforce our immigration laws. We drastically increase our border security.

We need to force Mexico to solve it's own problems.

At the same time, that doesn't mean we cut off trade with them. Trade can not only help our economy and their economy, but demanding that they open their markets, we can force them to allow more competition within their own markets as well as from us. This increases opportunity for the Mexican people. It helps improve their standard of living. It gives them a viable option. Giving them a viable option is extremely important, because the socialists and communists are always pushing their nonviable option that will have the people there trade one set of elitists for another.

[William Terrell]

I must disagree with the solution for Mexico.

The only way to cure Mexico of its oligarchical distribution of wealth and opportunity is to refuse any safety valve at all to its north. When the people are bottled up and cannot escape they will spawn one or more champions and the blood will flow. The blood must always flow in response to tyranny. There is no other way.

The only "peaceful" solution is the destruction of another's way of life, ours. And even that "solution" will not stay "peaceful" forever.

I believe there come times when the heart must turn cold and hard, compassion must become pitiless and we must refuse the vampire our blood even as he begs on his knees with heartrending need.

I believe we are at that place now, and if we don't become what political correctness forbids, we die.

[untrained skeptic]

Tariffs and trade barriers were used for nearly 300 years by the people of this country to make their economy the envy of the world.

What made our economy the envy of the world was hard work and free enterprise, not tariffs and trade barriers.

After only 15 years of globalist run “free trade”, communist China is poised to overtake our economy and socialist India is running a close second.

China has a huge population of people willing to work much longer hours for a much lower standard of living. Yet their GDP is one fifth of ours. Their per-capita GDP is about one twentieth of ours.

China has made enormous progress as the have embraced free enterprise more and more. As they embrace the concepts that have made America so prosperous, they start to chip away at our economic lead over them.

Protectionism doesn't create anything. Protectionism reduces the incentives to innovate and be efficient.

Tariffs are useful to offset the tariffs of other countries, or to give short term protections to an industry while it adapts to changing situations. However, in the long run tariffs are counter productive in the same way as taxes are counterproductive.

Tariffs raise inflation. If you place a tariff on a material that we use in the production of other items, you make our country less competitive in selling products made from that material.

If you place tariffs on consumables, you make it more costly for your people to buy those consumables. That creates inflation and requires raising wages to maintain the same standard of living.

You can look at all the items that we import from China because they are much cheaper to manufacture there. These items can be made so much cheaper there that even with the costs of transporting those goods across the world and time it takes to get those products to their destination (which acts as a form of built-in tariff), we cannot remain competitive manufacturing them here.

We can place tariffs on such goods to protect our manufacturing industry, but what that does is make those goods more expensive for the people here who buy them. Unless you also raise wages equivalently, people can buy less. That means they can't afford many things that we now consider essential such as computers, nice TVs, camera phones, ect.

At the same time, other countries that don't have high tariffs are benefiting from increased trade. Their economy grows faster while tariffs slow our economy.

If we can't produce an item affordably here in the US, then we need to find a way to improve efficiency and reduce costs, or find another business to be in.

We could close our borders and just live how we can with what we can produce domestically, but it would result in a huge hit to our standard of living, and don't expect the rest of the world to stand still while we stick our heads in the sand.

[ex-Texan]

[Toddsterpatriot]

OMG, the road that ate America. Spend more time in traffic. For the children!

[untrained skeptic]

Mexico hasn't the capacity to BE helped in its present form. There isn't the Law, The Societal Tradition, nor The Infrastructure (Mental and Physical) to USE the kind of help we can give.

Have you ever been to Mexico? Many of the people there have incredible ingenuity born out of necessity. If something breaks down, they often simply can't afford to replace the item or major parts like we do, they have to fix things. Many things our society considers disposable because the labor is more expensive than the item actually get worked on and repaired there because money to buy new things is scarce.

I've been to small villages in Mexico. They have the ingenuity and the work ethic. What they don't have is opportunity.

I am convinced that our government's rationale for illegal immigration is the "safety valve" effect it has on Mexican society.

I agree completely. They export people who strive for a better life, because such people are a threat to the status quo there. They also work to shift blame for the effects of their own economic policies onto the US as much as possible. They redirect people's energies and anger to help reduce the demand for change.

The $30Billion a year in money orders sent South doesn't hurt, either!

That's $30 billion added to their economy without them having to loosen their strangle hold on domestic businesses.

There is some progress in Mexico, and there are good people in its government. But the progress is agonizingly slow and all it is doing on a practical level is increasing the population.

I don't disagree. We must shut off the outlet of illegal immigration to force them to fix their own problems.

There is no doubt that very soon, (NO MATTER WHAT WE DO WITH THE BORDER FROM TODAY FORWARD!) in historical terms, our population will be heavily Mexicanized (say 30%).

Most Mexicans come here for work. As long as our economy is growing and there are jobs available, they illegal immigrant population will continue to increase. However I have a hard time believing that the combined illegal immigrant and legal Mexican population will reach 30% in the near future.

You're also neglecting the fact that a good portion of the Mexicans that come here do adopt American values. They do in effect become Americans. Historically there has been strong support for things like English immersion in schools among Mexican-Americans. There is a considerable population of Mexicans among us that do not respect American values and the American way of life, and this tends to be a very disruptive group. That's one of the reasons for controlled, legal immigration rather than uncontrolled immigration.

In all probability, there will be some sort of federal union between the two countries, or rather between the regions and states of the two countries.

For what purpose? Most Mexicans I have spoken with dislike their government more than ours. They don't come here wanting to make the US more like Mexico.

It is in the interest of the Mexican government to work with us in areas of mutual interest, but the people in the government there, and especially those that control the wealth do not want their power weakened through joining in to some regional government that has real authority over them. It isn't in their best interests.

The only people that really want such a regional government are the communists in our own government that wish to not only take control of our government, but to extend that power over our neighbors. The only way Mexico is going to agree with that is if they have a communist government there that needs the help of allies in the US to wrest power from those who control the wealth in Mexico.

However, I don't see our countries merging simply because a lot of Mexicans move here. They are moving here for a reason, and it isn't to make the US more like Mexico.

Like a poker hand, that's neither a good thing, nor a bad thing. How are we going to play it?

I don't know about you, but I'm going to fight it. But that is different than fighting against trade agreements and against working together with our neighbors in areas of mutual interest. There are ways we can benefit from working together, but I see no benefit to joining together under some umbrella form of government. We gain nothing.

There is also the issue of how it would happen. Our Constitution doesn't authorize our Federal government to join in such a larger government. It only allows us to add states, and even then through a far from simple process.

Are these other countries going to join the US? Or are you talking about a revolution? Or are you talking about amending the constitution drastically enough to allow our government to enter into such a union?

Cooperation between our countries may increase, but while we have many mutual interests between our countries, we are still both looking out for our own interests first.

Want to fight against the creation of a NAU, work to keep our Constitution strong, and fight against Judges subverting it.

But if you try and tell me that forming an agreement to allow truck drivers from approved countries in the US to drive on Mexican roads and vice versa is happening specifically as a step to create a North American Union I'm going to suggest that you should try and justify your protectionist views with facts rather than try and scare people into supporting them with some conspiracy theory.

[untrained skeptic]

The only way to cure Mexico of its oligarchical distribution of wealth and opportunity is to refuse any safety valve at all to its north.

I agree that we must cut off illegal immigration and force the Mexican people to solve their own problem.

However, a people that are desperate to solve such a problem, but have little real hope of making their lives better often follow leaders that offer false promises and change. This is how Communist revolutions occur.

It is in our best interest not only to force the Mexicans to fix the problems with their country, but provide them with some help along a path that will not only benefit them, but us as well.

When the people are bottled up and cannot escape they will spawn one or more champions and the blood will flow. The blood must always flow in response to tyranny. There is no other way.

Mexico's government has some democratic institutions, so they may be able to reform their government without a violent revolution, but I don't doubt it will be a difficult task.

Since the people do not have guns, political pressure might even be more effective than force if properly organized. Machetes are poor weapons against a government's well armed military, and the Federales are well armed in Mexico.

However, unless the people's political pressure can gain them control over the government, including the military, the only solution is armed revolution. You can't change a government without being able to control it's military.

I believe there come times when the heart must turn cold and hard, compassion must become pitiless and we must refuse the vampire our blood even as he begs on his knees with heartrending need.

Sometimes doing what is good for a people as a whole isn't what isn't particularly good for individuals among that people. We also do not live in a world of unlimited resources. We can't give everyone what they want and our first responsibility is to our own people.

I believe we are at that place now, and if we don't become what political correctness forbids, we die.

I agree. We might not die a quick death, but we will die the death of a thousand minor cuts.

[Kenny Bunk]

As long as our economy is growing and there are jobs available, they illegal immigrant population will continue to increase. However I have a hard time believing that the combined illegal immigrant and legal Mexican population will reach 30% in the near future.

At the moment, my sources put the number of Mexicans here illegally at over 20 million. I have absolutely no problem believing that number, as in California alone there are in excess of 5 Million. Since 1965 legal immigrants, largely from Mexico are probably at about the same number . With a high birthrate (which of course will decrease with increased time within this country) an Hispanic population of 100 million within 50-75 years is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility. Of course, we need to control the borders, but demographically it has to be faced that the "damage" is already done.

You're also neglecting the fact that a good portion of the Mexicans that come here do adopt American values. They do in effect become Americans.

There is a considerable population of Mexicans among us that do not respect American values and the American way of life, and this tends to be a very disruptive group. That's one of the reasons for controlled, legal immigration rather than uncontrolled immigration.

The illegals especially have little reason to adopt American ways. Of course, to some extent their children do. But I'm afraid that more often than not, what we wind up with is the Tex-Mex culture, or the "pocho" culture of Chicano California. Legal or illegal, the numbers of immigrants from south of the border is so great and the time-span of their arrival so short, that it is we who are in danger of assimilation, not them.

I work quite often in Mexico, and man for man, they are a plenty good enough people. However to romanticize Mexicans for making a virtue of necessity, serves no purpose. Individually brave and resourceful though they may be, the culture in which they are bound is particularly useless in ours. More important, it seems to be an often insurmountable obstacle in repairing their ways of life. Inevitably, the cultures must blend in some regions. The problem remains: how?

[untrained skeptic]

Well the problem with the illegal immigrant population becoming 30% of the population is still the issue that most of the illegal immigrants seek jobs as low skilled laborers, and there is obviously a limit to how many low skilled laborers our economy can absorb before there is rampant unemployment in that segment of the workforce.

However, even if I assume that your hundred million illegal aliens in 50 to 75 years is accurate, what makes you think that our population will remain constant. It is more likely that 100 million would be more on the order of 20% of the population.

That number also included birth rates, so you're talking about people who have been in the United States for generations. The children would be citizens under our laws. Many will integrate with American society. Many will mary other Americans, some of Hispanic origins, others who are not.

Even with your numbers, illegal immigrants aren't going to be overwhelming our society in 50 to 75 years, and that's a long time from now.

Hispanics are obviously becoming a larger portion of our society. I'm not denying that. However, claims that we are going to be assimilated by there culture in our own country is more than a bit overblown.

The illegals especially have little reason to adopt American ways.

Well there are definitely incentives to learn English, and while many of them can't speak more than a tiny bit of English, most can understand considerably more than they can speak.

So what aspects of American culture do you think that they don't want to adopt? The bloated government, nanny state mentality isn't something they brought from home. I don't think that many of them come here espousing Communism. They mainly get that from dealing with the elitist liberals here.

What the majority mainly come here looking for is an opportunity to make a better life for themselves. That's pretty much a core American principal.

The biggest thing that divides the majority of these people from us is that they are here illegally. The language barrier is a serious issue, but it is one that tends to slowly solve itself as long as people have more reasons to interact than to fear interaction.

It also solves itself if you don't let liberals try and have special Spanish language programs because they justify getting more funding from the government. But that is another internal issue.

When it really comes down to it, I think that liberals are a much greater threat to our society than the current illegal immigrant population and their descendants.

Of course if we don't do something about illegal immigration soon, the combination of the two are going to bankrupt our country morally and financially.

[Kenny Bunk]

Hispanics are obviously becoming a larger portion of our society. I'm not denying that. However, claims that we are going to be assimilated by there culture in our own country is more than a bit overblown

Really depends upon where you live. Naturally, some parts of the US are going to be one hell of a lot more Mexican than they are "Anglo." Already are. Were you the parent of grammar school-aged children in Southern California or Texas, you would know exactly what I'm talking about.

The real problem is that our government seems to have no PUBLISHED plan on how we will cope with this as a nation. Furthermore, it seems obvious to me that the Hispanics economically supplant the lower end African-Americans, (Whom they already far outnumber!)which is a phenomenon observed in many cities by responsible leaders, although definitely not including the Congressional Black Caucus.

It's one hell of a stupid form of government to allow a largely extra-legal movement to deal direct harm to a substantial block of citizens. We have been clobbered by a massive monolithic block of immigrants ... and there ain't no plan, Stan.

At least none I can discern. By all means, close and tightly regulate the border, Has to be done. Close the barn door too, while we're at at it... but the horse is long gone.

[1rudeboy]

LOL
You wish.

[Reform4Bush]

[William Terrell]

. . .but provide them with some help along a path that will not only benefit them, but us as well.

Uneducated and unsocialized Mexicans in this country do not benefit us or Mexico. It does evil to both. Mexico and Mexicans must do it themselves. If they don't, they will remain rootless in liberty and uncomprehending of any sense of individual sovereignty. Willing blood spilled is the only way, then the lesson that can't be taught is learned.

. . .so they may be able to reform their government without a violent revolution. . .

When things get to a point, violent revolution is the only way. Any other way requires that despots give up wealth and power willingly. That won't happen.

They will just have to do it without weapons, if they can't acquire them. There are ways to acquire them, as the German occupiers of France found out. The people will have to be forced to grow up, or they will remain servants.

There is no political solution for Mexico. With foreign aid there is just a transfer to another master.

Unfortunately, in this country, we have been carefully educated away from the hard truths. I don't believe the forces that run the American government want a free and sovereign Mexico with liberty and sovereignty for its citizens; I think it wants more vassals.

[Kenny Bunk]

When it really comes down to it, I think that liberals are a much greater threat to our society than the current illegal immigrant population and their descendants

Hold that key thought, Skep. What the Left (how's that for an omnium gatherum?) is doing is importing voters, through whom they hope to gain and hold power forever. So both ends of your thought are accurate: i.e., illegals and Liberals are both dangers. But, the massive numbers of illegals, many of whom already vote (illegally, of course), make the Liberals even more dangerous.

Buchanan wasn't far wrong: Illegal Aliens are Cheap Votes for the Democrats and Cheap Labor for the Republicans. What the Republicans in their collective wisdom have failed to realize is that the tide of illegals and their children could vote them out of office, perhaps forever,* despite (Idiot-Savant Soi Disant) Karl Rove's theory that Mexicans are the "Republicans of the Future." No amount of polling data, no sociological study; no common sense, will convince Karl otherwise. He has thoroughly confused the staunch Republican Cubans of Miami's better neighborhoods, and probably the staunch Republican Italians, with Mexicans. Some sort of middle-American hang-up. Well, they don't call the Republicans "The Stupid Party" for nothing.

*There was a time when there was no Republican Party. Who's to say it won't disappear again? I think we could see a replay of the early 1940's, when there were 80 or so Republicans in the House, with 325 Democrats. It is not written in stone somewhere that the Stupid Party will eventually triumph over the Evil Party. Either that, or we could wind up well and truly Schwarzneggered, with an emasculated Republican Party that's pro-abortion, pro-big-government, pro-amnesty, and as politically correct as Nancy Pelosi ... a girlie party!

[untrained skeptic]

Buchanan wasn't far wrong: Illegal Aliens are Cheap Votes for the Democrats and Cheap Labor for the Republicans.

I find myself wanting to argue that it is possible that many Mexican immigrants might vote Republican. However, a surplus of low skilled labor drives up unemployment among that group and makes a lot of US citizens who fall into the category of unskilled laborers poorer and more likely to be unemployed.

The poor and unemployed vote strongly Democrat. Even if a high percentage of Mexican immigrants vote Republican, the Democrats are still likely to gain votes.

This is the problem with giving so much political power to those who benefit from a bad economy.