Posted on 04/28/2007 12:18:51 PM PDT by Sleeping Beauty
More likely they just like things that go Boom. They'd be better advised to get a muzzle loading cannon. Those really go boom, and don't excite the BATFE nearly so much.
Maybe the fugitive from justice. Unless the only thing he was wanted on was an "illegal weapons" charge, which is probable since it was the "ATF" that wanted him. For the MJ .. maybe I'd call the sheriff. But notice that the DEA was not in on the raid, only Marshalls (that's the federal fugitive part) and BATFE. BATFE is the same agency that sucked the Marshalls into the mess at Ruby Ridge, and conducted the raid on the Branch Davidians in Waco, which then brought in the Federal Bureau of Incineration, as did the action involving the Marshalls at RR.
This article reads like a BATFE press release, not something the local sheriff would issue nor would the Federal Marshall's service.
Rather tight interpretation of the Second Amendment you have there. Tench Cox would be ashamed of you.
Who are the militia? are they not ourselves. Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American. What clause in the state or federal constitution hath given away that important right.... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the foederal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
"A Pennsylvanian" (Tench Coxe), To The People of the United States, PA. GAZETTE, Feb. 20, 1788, at 2, reprinted in 2 DOCUMENTARY HISTORY, supra note 57, at 1778-80 (Microform Supp.).
Agent Cavanaugh was the deputy tactical commander for the Waco raid.
Remember these same folks, BATFE said the BDs had grenades and machine guns. Something they never proved in court. The "grenades" turned out to be old hulls being made into "Complaint Department..Take A Number" novelties. The Machine Guns were never allowed to be examined by outside experts, not even the Texas Rangers. BATFE "experts" testified that the guns had been converted to full auto. Of course they've been known to testify that the Firearms Registry has no errors, and that an old .22 modified with a shoelace, was a machine gun, so I wouldn't put much faith in what they had to say.
What's a BATFaggot?
It used to be the nickname for BATF agents, given to them by agents of other federal agencies who pretty much considered the BATF to be the bottom-feederes of the federal law enforcement community.
Since the letter E has been added to their acronym, the current nickname for them is BATFeces, which they also don't care for much. One federal agency recentlt circulated a letter to its agents about to undergo advanced firearms training at the federal FLETC training center at Glynco, Ga to please not call them that to their faces, since they sometimes get nasty about it and/or their female agents sometimes cry. They were also warned to avoide the BATFEces trainees during shooting exercises, since BATFE routinely suffers the highest number of accidental shootings of themselves and others during training.
Yeah, I was going to say I thought they were lucky the ATF didn’t smoke ‘em out. =-o
If these were your neighbors, would you have turned them in?
Absolutely. They had freakin hand grenades and were trying to build rockets launchers and their own rockets.
Not me, but there are plenty who would. Anyone who grew up in the northeast would do it in a heartbeat.
Sounds like the "America first" people on FR.
“”BATFE is the same agency that sucked the Marshalls into the mess at Ruby Ridge””
This statement by you demonstrates complete ignorance of the Federal criminal justice system. Randy Weaver sucked the Marshals into Ruby Ridge by failing to appear in court.
When a federal agency obtains an arrest warrant either through a criminal complaint (signed by a Judge) or indictment (issued by a grand jury and signed by a Judge) they are initially responsible for the persons arrest.
ATF arrested Weaver at his mailbox without incident and took him before the Federal Magistrate (I believe this was Judge Lodge at the time) in north Idaho. At that point the Magistrate Judge made a decision to release Weaver after Weaver assured him he would appear in court when asked to answer the charges. This was despite the fact that Weaver told the ATF agents he would not be taken that easily again and the agents relayed this to the court.
At that point ATF had NOTHING to do with what happened up there. Once the initial appearance is made by the accused in Federal court it is the responsibility of the U.S. Marshals to arrest them if they fail to appear. The arresting agency has NOTHING to do with it.
There was ONE U.S. Marshal in north Idaho at the time (very nice guy by the way). He was ordered by the court to arrest Weaver when Weaver failed to appear for his court date as ordered (and agreed to by Weaver when he was released).
He did a standard risk assessment.... anti-government, lived on a mountaintop, and he had reportedly armed his son and others and they were patrolling the property with firearms.
The Marshals (correctly IMO) employed a team to arrest him based on the standard fugitive assessment still used today. They attempted surveillance of the property and Weavers dog found the Marshal who shot the dog. Weavers son shot the Marshal and other Marshals shot him. The matter of the sawed off shotgun was forgotten and you now had the murder of a Federal law enforcement officer which is the jurisdiction of the FBI. The FBI came in to take over the stand-off resulting in the death of Vicky Weaver standing in her doorway.
It was a mess without a doubt but riddle me this......
If you are arrested and tell the Judge you will appear in court when ordered but you don’t are you a liar or coward?
If you make decisions as an adult and don’t want to face the consequences would you hide behind you children and wife?
From Wikipedia -
Ruby Ridge refers to a violent confrontation and siege involving white separatist Randy Weaver, his family, and Weaver’s friend Kevin Harris, and federal agents from the United States Marshals Service and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The events took place in late August 1992 on the Weaver family property, located on a hillside between Caribou Ridge and Ruby Creek near Naples in northern Idaho.
In the months leading up to the incident, Weaver had failed to appear in court to answer charges relating to possession of an illegally shortened sawed-off shotgun, and the U.S. Marshals Service was directed to serve a warrant for his arrest. During this period Weaver isolated himself on his property, became increasingly suspicious of the federal government,[citation needed] and refused to surrender peacefully. Following extended surveillance of the property in preparation for an arrest, on August 21, 1992 several armed U.S. Marshals surveying the property were detected by “Striker”, a pet dog owned by Weaver’s 14-year-old son Samuel Weaver. Weaver, Harris and Samuel armed themselves, went to investigate, and the resulting confrontation with the agents resulted in the death of Samuel, his pet dog, and US Marshal William Degan. Two days later Lon Horiuchi, an FBI sharpshooter, fatally shot Vicki Weaver, and injured Weaver and Harris. The government spent $1 million per day for the 10 days of the siege.[citation needed] The stand-off was resolved with a truce arrangement, following which Weaver and Harris were arrested.
______________________________________
The person most responsible for Ruby Ridge was Randy Weaver who knowingly broke the law. It might be a law you or I don’t agree with but it’s still a law and nothing will ever change the truth........
Randy Weaver lied to the Judge, armed his family and family flunky telling them the ZOG were going to come arrest him, and he refused to appear in court as he told the Judge he would.
If he wished to deny sawing off the barrel of a shotgun (two actually) he could have simply appeared in court as he told the Judge he would and his 14 year old son, his wife, and a U.S. Marshal simply doing his job would be alive today.
There is nothing heroic about Randy Weaver.
I don’t think those facts fit his agenda.
I think there are alot of people looking at this group and ignoring certain facts just to avoid thinking outside their comfortable box of “all gun control is bad”. As I said before, certain lines where crossed, and the second they were this groups rights as a miltia went flying right out the window.
“We classify this as a violent, anti-government group,” Cavanaugh said. “We think we’ve gotten the core group. This is a core, made-up military group. They are a militant militia who obviously feel they need to use force at some time.” So only people who LUV the gov are allowed to have weapons? There is something seriously wrong with this govt. I’m not for overthrowing the govt or anything like that, but there should be much more than that.
I was talking about when they, the BATFE entrapped Weaver in the original action, then lied to the federal Marshall's about Weaver, which caused the Marshals to treat him as a dangerous fugitive, rather than walking up and serving their arrest warrant. They said he was involved in some bank robberies, which he was not. They said he vowed never to be taken, a statement never verified.
I never said Weaver was smart, or blameless (and neither does he). But he was not convicted of making and selling a short barreled shotgun which was BATFEs original charge, even though tried on that charge along with others.
The person most responsible for Ruby Ridge was Randy Weaver who knowingly broke the law. It might be a law you or I don’t agree with but it’s still a law and nothing will ever change the truth........
Since he was not convicted of breaking that law, it's fair to say he probably did not break it. That would be the one I would not agree with as being a valid law to be broken. Not appearing when summed to court, that's breaking a law I agree with, but remember too that Weaver was given the wrong date to appear (he didn't appear on the date given either, but it was later than the date the court expected him and issued that bench warrant). The only things Weaver was convicted of was missing that court date, and violating the conditions of his bail on the original firearms charge. His friend Harris was not convicted of anything he was charged with. In a subsequent wrongful death lawsuit, Weaver was awarded $100,000 and each of his daughters 1,000,000.
The FBI agent who shot Vicki weaver, while he claimed to be shooting at Harris, was charged by the county prosecutor with involuntary manslaughter, but the charge was dismissed by a Federal court based on the supremacy clause. The dismissal was upheld by the 9th Circuit. You also left out the government's (false) accusations of drug trafficking, which allowed for the use of Air National Guard RF-4C aircraft (on interstate "loan" from the Alabama Air Guard) to "survey" Weaver's pathetic little cabin. A trick they would pull again at Waco to get military assets, such as the Bradleys and the Combat Engineering Vehcile (essentially a tank chassis with the gun replaced by a crane sort of affair) Also that the surveillance went on for 16 months. (The missed court date was February 20, 91, (Weaver was told March 20, and the local Marshall requested assistance from the United States Marshals Service Special Operations Group on March 18th, the shooting started Aug 21, 92. An awful lot of bother to bring in a guy accussed of not paying a $200 tax (well twice that since it involved two guns).
The dates and chronology are from that from the same Wikipedia article you quoted. Of course that was not the point, the point was that BATFE was after bigger fish, they wanted Weaver as an informant. He refused to go along, but still should have showed up for his day in court.
Reading between the lines of various accounts, one gets the impression that his wife was big factor in that.
IEDs and Marijuana I can understand, but the insane prohibition against silencers has me completely baffled.
As a person whose hearing was damaged by job-related exposure, I support any reasonable method to protect a person’s hearing. Nerve damage is permanent and progressive. Reducing or eliminating any harmful noise is a good thing.
The current law makes as much sense as outlawing all respirators because a criminal could release a toxic substance in public. There is no reason a law abiding citizen should have to pay with their hearing due to criminal behavior.
What, no fender washers and exhaust tubing, aka Silencer components? Just what in that list is illegal Alabama? There might be an issue with the fireworks, some states do require licenses for those, and BATFE may classify them as Destructive Deives, like they do many model rocket motors. Actually it sounds exactly like stuff that might be found in many a garage or storage shed. (well I'd not keep primers there).
Doesn't sound like good ol' boys just wanting to see things go Boom.
To me sounds just like what anyone wanting to make some big booms might have around. We'll see. BATFE has been known to lie in Court, as well to the media. I don't believe anything that comes only from BATFE sources.
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