Global warming debate 'irrational': scientists [GW caused by sun]

Standard Freeholder (Cornwall, Canada) ^ | April 26, 2007 | Stephanie Stein

[2ndDivisionVet]

The current debate about global warming is "completely irrational," and people need to start taking a different approach, say two Ottawa scientists.

Carleton University science professor Tim Patterson said global warming will not bring about the downfall of life on the planet.

Patterson said much of the up-to-date research indicates that "changes in the brightness of the sun" are almost certainly the primary cause of the warming trend since the end of the "Little Ice Age" in the late 19th century. Human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2), the gas of concern in most plans to curb climate change, appear to have little effect on global climate, he said.

"I think the proof in the pudding, based on what (media and governments) are saying, (is) we're about three quarters of the way (to disaster) with the doubling of CO2 in the atmosphere," said Patterson. "The world should be heating up like crazy by now, and it's not. The temperatures match very closely with the solar cycles."

Patterson explained CO2 is not a pollutant, but an essential plant food.

Billions of taxpayers' dollars are spent to control the emissions of this benign gas, in the mistaken belief that they can stop climate change, he said.

"The only constant about climate is change," said Patterson.

Patterson said money could be better spent on places like Africa.

"All the money wasted on Kyoto in a year could provide clean drinking water for Africa," said Patterson. "We're into a new era of science with the discussion of solar forces. Eventually, Kyoto is going to fall by the wayside. In the meantime, I'm worried we're going to spend millions that could have been spent on something better like air pollution."

Tom Harris, executive director of the Natural Resources Stewardship Project - an organization that attempts to debunk some of the popular beliefs about climate change - supported Patterson's findings.

Global warming assertions are based on inconclusive evidence put forth in science reports that had not been published yet, he said.

"The media takes (inconclusive) information that only suggests there could be a climate problem and turns it into an environmental catastrophe," said Harris.

"They continually say we only have 10 years left, and they've been saying it for 20 years, and it's ridiculous," he said. "The only reason I got involved in talking to media is that I think our resources are being mismanaged.

"Go after something real and tangible like air pollution."

After hearing a second scientist say climate change is part of a natural cycle, Elaine Kennedy - a local environmental activist - is interested in investigating the issue further.

She looks forward to examining scientific reports that will be published in a couple of months by the United Nation's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

"The problem may not be climate change, but the problem is still pollution," said Kennedy.

She's not alone in her assertion global warming is a pollution problem.

David Phillips, a senior government environment expert, believes there is more than one contributing factor to global warming. There's a human element, as well as natural cycles.

Difficult to convince

"I'm a man that's difficult to convince," he said. "What convinces me is the large body of evidence, and highly reputable people promoting global warming, who are not lobbyists, but only seeking truth in science. They say the the earth is warming up faster and greater now than in the past."

People who are contradicting the global warming reality, Phillip thinks, have their own motives for doing so.

"These skeptics are keeping the debate alive (for their own interests). They try to confuse people into inaction," said Phillips.

Phillips believes global warming is solvable.

"We solved the ozone and acid rain problem. With effort, and a new way of doing things we could solve this one too," said Phillips.

[PeterPrinciple]

Patterson explained CO2 is not a pollutant, but an essential plant food.

Repeat loud and often.................

[Lucky9teen]

Just 2 more scientists that won’t be heard....

Global Warming....pfffft

[redgolum]

He had better be careful. The Global Warming Inquisition will find him.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

"In the meantime, I'm worried we're going to spend millions that could have been spent on something better like air pollution."

He's way off the mark.

We're going to waste billions (trillions worldwide).

[ryan71]

“The temperatures match very closely with the solar cycles.”

I’ve not heard a single “we’re causing it” nut comment on the relationship of the sun to warming.

[Al Gator]

“We solved the ozone and acid rain problem. With effort, and a new way of doing things we could solve this one too,” said Phillips.”

Really? What did I miss? When and How did WE do THAT?

I seem to remember they just quietly slipped off into the night. Right after it was found that they were bogus!

What a blast.

[Maelstorm]

Dr. R. Timothy Patterson
Professor of Geology
Department of Earth Sciences
College of Natural Sciences
Carleton University
Ottawa, Ontario
K1S 5B6
CANADA

Email: tpatters@ccs.carleton.ca
tel: 613-520-2600 ext. 4425
fax: 613-520-2569

R. Timothy Patterson, Ph.D., is a professor of geology, Department of Earth Sciences, Carleton University as well as Director of the Ottawa Geoscience Centre in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. He is also a Senior Visiting Fellow in the School of Geography, Queen's University of Belfast, Northern Ireland. He holds a B.Sc. in Biology, B.A. in Geology, both from Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia and a Ph.D. in geology from the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA).

[capitalist229]

The issue is NOT global warming but whether it is man-made.

The isue is the unexplained last 60 years 'hockey stick' on the CO2 graph. Has the sun's output increased that much in the past 60 years ? If so then global warming is NOT man made.

BUMP

[Vicomte13]

“I’m a man that’s difficult to convince,” he said. “What convinces me is the large body of evidence, and highly reputable people promoting global warming, who are not lobbyists, but only seeking truth in science. They say the the earth is warming up faster and greater now than in the past.”

Mars is warming up. Titan is warming up. All of the other planets where we can take measurements are warming up. And Earth is warming up. So yes, there is global warming, and that’s the truth. And yes, it’s warming up faster and greater now than in the recent recorded past.

The Sun is hotting up (I will leave the “fire next time” prophesies to those who dig that sort of thing). When the Sun hots up, the Solar System hots up. (Go figure!)

Now, it could be that Titan and Mars and Mecury and Venus are warming up because the Sun is increasing its radiant output, but the Earth is warming up because of cow farts and SUV emissions. It could be. But it isn’t.

[Red Badger]

"All the money wasted on Kyoto in a year could provide clean drinking water for Africa," said Patterson

I like that man's thinking processes..........

[dfwgator]

He had better be careful. The Global Warming Inquisition will find him.

"NOBODY EXPECTS THE GLOBAL WARMING INQUISITION!"

[2ndDivisionVet]

How about: All the money spent on Kyoto in a year could be kept by the taxpaying citizens to do with as they wish (i.e., buy food & housing, send children to college, etc.)?

[Maelstorm]

Those evil Martians much be using fossil fuels too. There are so many good reasons to set aside the Global Warming Hysteria.

[Ditto]

The isue is the unexplained last 60 years 'hockey stick' on the CO2 graph.

You might have missed it, but the "Hockey Stick" has been broken and is now in the Junk Science trash bin. Even the UN clepto-crats don't cite it anymore.

[beeber]

[Molly Pitcher]

CO2 is not a pollutant, but an essential plant food.

Really....And Isn't this good for the jungles rainforests the Left is always worrying about???

[Logic n' Reason]

Did any of these brave scientists - either as individuals or as a group - offer free classes to gore and his ilk?

Might help....at least then, gore would have no excuse!

[Red Badger]

I think he was talking about Canada nd all the other Kyoto signatories. We aren’t......

[rockinqsranch]

Thus far Global Warming is based on the heresy of people such as AlGore and of course others referencing some allegedly certifiable “Science” (None provided), and or “Scientists’” stating that Global Warming exists, and of course the Main Stream Alarmist, “Town Criers” hammer away at our sensibilities daily with the news.

Within this article is a grand example of the idiocy of the Global Warming alarmist. Note the commentary of Mr. Phillips. GW advocaters are good and have no motives other than the purist of..., yet GW skeptics motives are questionable as they have allegiance to something to make them think the way they do.

[mmichaels1970]

Also How about: All the corn and crops burned to create biofuels that could have been used for food?

[EEDUDE]

The issue is the unexplained last 60 years 'hockey stick' on the CO2 graph."

Go have another look at the full temperature vs time graphs. We are not in uncharted territory.

The Earth has been both hotter and colder than it is now.

An additional clue is the fact that CO2 increases or decreases always lag rather than lead temperature fluctuations.

[Maelstorm]

The Steady-State Climate promoters don’t care about poor Africans. lol If they really believed in impending disaster they would do the only reasonable thing and recommend people start relocating out of areas that have potential to be flooded. Maybe insurance companies should start offering ultra high premium global warming insurance policies covering the cost of relocation and buying a new house.

[2ndDivisionVet]

I’m sure we are spending millions, if not billions on gore-bull warming, whether we are a signatory or not.

[Database]

But ... but ... but ...

Supreme Court Declares Carbon Dioxide a Pollutant

sigh

[Cruising Speed]

We solved the ozone and acid rain problem.

And after the warming ends they'll say they fixed Global Warming, too.

[Maelstorm]

It is very good. I remember reading several articles where studies showed plants would prosper and grow larger and have greater yields with higher level of CO2. Then when it became clear to the global warming hystericists that this wasn’t going to help them promoting the world taxation and get rid of evil hydrocarbon campaign they started publishing articles casting doubt on whether plants would really benefit and absorb more carbon dioxide. History tells us that Plants thrive in Carbon Dioxide rich atmosphere, look at the Carboniferous period in which the plants may have did such a great job of extracting CO2 that they helped usher in the Ice Age that occurred at the end of that period when our modern coal beds were formed.

[Molly Pitcher]

Ah! Thanks for the confirmation. More evidence of the senselessness of the Left.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

I seem to remember they just quietly slipped off into the night. Right after it was found that they were bogus!

This is correct for ozone, the acid rain problem was real, though overblown. It went away because of reduced numbers of coal burning power plants and other industries.

[TigersEye]

"I think the proof in the pudding, based on what (media and governments) are saying, (is) we're about three quarters of the way (to disaster) with the doubling of CO2 in the atmosphere," said Patterson. "The world should be heating up like crazy by now, and it's not. The temperatures match very closely with the solar cycles."

This statement is demonstrably false and any "scientist" should know this. Atmospheric CO2 has not doubled or anything close to it. Manmade contributions may have doubled in the last 150 years but they only make up a very small percentage of total CO2.

Those charts come from this linked page. What I can't cut and paste is an HTML chart showing the pre-industrial levels of CO2 at 288,000 ppb and current CO2 levels at 368,400 ppb. Those are total concentrations and obviously not double. Natural additions during that period were 68,250 ppb and anthropogenic additions were 11,880 ppb.

Strange that Patterson argues against CO2 as a cause of Global Warming yet makes such a tremendously false statement about its increase.

[Maelstorm]

We are we are paying government “climatologists” to prove it.
Investigation is not what they are doing.

[Old Professer]

“”We solved the ozone and acid rain problem. With effort, and a new way of doing things we could solve this one too,” said Phillips.”

We didn’t solve either one; they are as they were 25 years ago except for being relegated to page 10.

Acid rain was never a problem and smokestacks have been scrubbing away only to find acid-lakes mostly unchanged as the acid comes from the decaying plant matter.

The ozone hole fluctuates from year to year and hasn’t shrunk up and slunk away yet.

We have spent tons of money and no great harm has resulted so I guess we can get over this carbon-neutral period of racing the industrial engine with nowhere to go once again.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

The isue is the unexplained last 60 years 'hockey stick' on the CO2 graph.

That data lags the temperature increase, and calling it a hockey stick reminds me of the data fraud with overstating the temperature increase a year or two ago. Also have you noticed many of the CO2 graphs seem to be from monitors placed in areas of volcanic activity?

[Old Professer]

If you can still find it, read the NAPAP study that cost 500M to produce.

[Maelstorm]

Might want to send Mr. Patterson a thank you. He and others like him are targets for the liberal intifada.

[The Great RJ]

It seems that our distant ancestors survived quite well when the global climate warmed from glacial levels to current temperatures.

[Old Professer]

Worse, they’re all adjusted to the original station at Mauna Loa; if they disagree, the numbers are made to fit.

[Voltage]

1000 years ago the Danes set up a colony in Greenland, planted crops and raised cattle. This lasted for 300 years at which point they were driven out by starvation brought on by global cooling.

The Earth was warmer 1000 years ago and who is to be blamed for that! Perhaps SUV's?

Or more likely the sun!

[weldgophardline]

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

Acid rain was never a problem and smokestacks have been scrubbing away only to find acid-lakes mostly unchanged as the acid comes from the decaying plant matter

Acid rain was a localized problem near power plants, steel mill's, etc. Money grubbing scientists getting rich grants tried to overplay it into an international problem causing all sorts of havoc and tried to say it was causing lakes to turn to acid, ruined crops, starved population's etc. No way was there enough sulpher in the air to cause this, in actual fact it maybe ruined a few paint jobs and rusted out a few cars in the power plants parking lots, and little more. Though that might be an understatement.

[BenLurkin]

“The world should be heating up like crazy by now, and it’s not. The temperatures match very closely with the solar cycles.”

[GovernmentShrinker]

I’m not even sure the “issue” is what’s causing it. The big issue, as I see it, is what to do about it. It’s true that significant warming over a relatively short period of time will be disruptive to a lot of things: crops, populations centers in coastal area, some animal and plant species, insects and other pests moving into new areas, etc. But these effects aren’t depend on the cause of the warming. We’ve recently seen some proposals for proactive solutions, such putting large solar reflectors into orbit. I can get behind ideas like that, as it would be solving the problem without worrying about exactly what the cause is. It would also be helping us to develop technology that would be critically important in the event of future, sudden climate changes from sources we can’t control. The “debate” seems to be between leftist forces eager to promote anything that involves destroying industrialized economies and high standards of living, and more rational heads saying we should use our brains and technological prowess to build a fix. The former basically views humans and anything they do as negative, and wants to simply slash the level of human activity. The latter views humans as pretty nifty and resourceful, and want to that used to find a fix that will not involve slashing the level of human activity.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

The ozone hole fluctuates from year to year and hasn’t shrunk up and slunk away yet.

The ozone hole was discovered almost as soon as they put up satellites to measure it. Enviro wackos took that as a sign that the ozone was indeed a catastrophic event. Fact is it has probably been there from the dawn of time, as I recall it went to page 10 as soon as data showed the hole was not getting bigger.

[calex59]

You will notice, and this is something the DBM does regularly, that the allow the disenter the final word, so that is what people remember. If you are against anything the media is for, they will sometimes give you space but they make sure the people with their(DBM)beliefs have the final say so as to leave a lasting impression with readers and listeners. This is an old trick and only works with the brain dead, unfortunately there are a lot of brain dead people out there.

[CholeraJoe]

Ping

[riverdawg]

“We have spent tons of money and no great harm has resulted ...”

Except, of course, the irrevocably lost value of what we could have produced or accomplished with the money we threw down the “global warming” rat hole.

[xcamel]

a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=globalwarming">

FReepmail me to get on or off
Click on POGW graphic for full GW rundown
Dr. John Ray's
GREENIE WATCH

---

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

We have spent tons of money and no great harm has resulted

Then why the heck is it harder to make ends meet. Yeah, I guess its great for old professors getting grant money, even if it is against the global warming grain.

[Designer II]

"And Isn't this good for the jungles rainforests the Left is always worrying about???"

Well, yes, at least for the flora part of the jungle rainforest.

[TigersEye]

I wonder at what lower level of CO2 would plants fail to thrive? CO2 is as essential to life as oxygen.