How to stop the next campus killing

The First Post ^ | April 19, 2007 | Alexander Cockburn

[brityank]

How to stop the next campus killing

There are lessons to be learned from the Virginia Tech massacre, says alexander cockburn

Since there undoubtedly will be a next time, what useful counsel on preventative measures can we offer faculties across America?

Arm teachers and students. There have been the usual howls from the anti-gun lobby, but it's all hot air. America is not about to dump the Second Amendment giving people the right to bear arms.

A better idea would be for appropriately screened teachers and maybe student monitors to carry weapons. This is not as outre as it may sound to European ears. A quarter of a century ago students doing military ROTC training regularly carried rifles around campus.

Five years ago Peter Odighizuwa, a 43-year-old Nigerian student, killed three faculty members at Appalachian Law School with a handgun, but before he could wreak further carnage two students fetched weapons from their cars, challenged the murderer with guns levelled, and disarmed him.

Ban anti-depressants. What should be banned from campuses are not weapons but prescriptions for anti-depressants. Eric Harris, co-slayer (with Dylan Klebold) of 12 students and a teacher in the Columbine school shootings in 1999, was on Luvox, a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI) of the same class as Prozac and Zoloft. Initially Harris had been prescribed Zoloft, but told his doctor he was having suicidal and homicidal fantasies. So the doc shifted him to Luvox.

Sixteen-year-old Jeff Weise, who killed 10 schoolmates at Red Lake High School on an Indian Reservation in 2005, was on Prozac. The manufacturer said four per cent of children in one of its tests of Luvox developed short-term mania. Other studies of the SSRI anti-depressants have claimed they have a 15 per cent chance of prompting suicidal or homicidal reactions.

Cho Seung-hui was on a prescription drug. The likelihood of it being an anti-depressant is high, since campus doctors dispense prescriptions for them like confetti.

Replace campus police with student volunteers. The stupidity of the campus cops at Virginia Tech will undoubtedly cost the college hefty damages.

There was plenty of evidence that Cho Seung-hui was a time bomb waiting to explode. Students talked about him as a possible shooter and refused to take classes with him. His essays so disturbed one of his teachers with their violent ravings that she arranged a secret signal in case she needed security during her tutorials.

When the mass murder session began in the engineering building the police cowered behind their cruisers until Cho Seung-hui finished off the last batch of his 32 victims, then killed himself. Then the police bravely rushed in and started sticking their guns in the faces of the traumatised students, screaming at them to freeze or be shot.

Make laxity in supervision grounds for termination. More than one teacher felt Cho was scarily nuts. They recommended counselling, then didn't bother to review the conclusions. And it has emerged that Cho was actually institutionalised as a psychotic and suicide risk in 2005. Yet when he returned to campus the administrators didn't even tip off his roommate.

College administrators live in constant fear of declining students enrollment. At the first sign of trouble they cover up. So, there's a double killing in a Virginia Tech dorm at 7.15am, after which Cho has time to go home, make his final home video, walk to the post office, mail his package to NBC and then head off to the engineering building with his guns.

The college's first email to students goes out more than two hours after the first killings were discovered. The ineffable Warren Steger, college president, says later: "You can only make decisions based on the information you have on the time. You don't have hours to reflect on it." Two dead bodies, a killer somewhere on campus, and Steger makes his big decision to do nothing. Don't hire stupid administrators.

[brityank]

College administrators live in constant fear of declining students enrollment. At the first sign of trouble they cover up. So, there's a double killing in a Virginia Tech dorm at 7.15am, after which Cho has time to go home, make his final home video, walk to the post office, mail his package to NBC and then head off to the engineering building with his guns.

The college's first email to students goes out more than two hours after the first killings were discovered.
~~~~~
Two dead bodies, a killer somewhere on [or near] campus, and Steger makes his big decision to do nothing.

[brityank]

More info:

From citizen journalists to online sleuths ^

[johnny7]

Repeat... and repeat again: PC killed the 32 students at VT

[CindyDawg]

That isn’t a bad idea. Train volunteer students and teachers , if they won’t remove bans.

[Wormwood]

Ban anti-depressants.

The logic supporting this claim is deeply flawed. Sorry.

[Brilliant]

Don’t publish the names and photos of the perps, and certainly don’t publish their manifesto. Deny them the notoriety.

[ctdonath2]

While the logic is flawed, there is a connection which must be examined.

[Leftism is Mentally Deranged]

I agree with what he stated above.

[Sam Ketcham]

How to stop the next campus massacre:
1. Make it illegal to buy or sell to insane people - oops, that is already law. Perhaps the courts need to place the info in a national data base.
2. Make it illegal for non-Americans citizens to own or buy or be sold weapons. Ooops, same as above and input the data into - oops that is already done.
3. Seal the border to prevent illegals from entering and claiming to be Americans. NOW
4. An armed Citizen is a secure and safe citizen. It is evident that “sanctuaries” and gun control on honest citizens doesn’t work.

[Larry Lucido]

Surprising to hear a communist support general gun ownership, since they usually only support gun ownership by communist party operatives and fellow thugs. But I imagine that he envisions that the “student volunteers,” carefully screened for their socialistic tendencies, to be the ones carrying.

The rest of the article is armchair monday morning quarterbacking.

[brityank]

The rest of the article is armchair monday morning quarterbacking.

Just what we're all doing; you, FReeperdom, amd I -- trying to make sense of it all.

[rellimpank]

-—yes—amazing from Cockburn, although I do remember stumbling across him making sense once or twice in the last 35 years or so-—

[Dead Dog]

I would add another way to stop this. Denegrate the shooter.

Imagine if this guy had tried this in the sociology department and ended up getting raped by the VT offensive line. That would make a headline that not even Kip Kinkle would have been impressed by. (not to disparage the VT Offensilve line, they have my respect).

In a similar vain I would propose the next shooter get's taken down and (befor the cops crawl out from behind their cover and concealment to save him) water boarded in a public toilet until he
1). Cries on film
2). Renounce whatever religion they are, and profess adherence to the Church of Scientology (remember, this is about discrediting them)
3). Pledge their life to the Holy Crusade against the Thetans,
4). Swear to honor the Hajj by pilgraming to Hollywood annually to bikin wax Tom Cruises Left Buttcheak.
5). Tearfully confess to being unimpressive to women
or Alternatively..Declare themselves to be Mr. Bean.

It all has to be done before the cops save him, and it needs to be on Youtube before ABC can make a folk hero out of the putz.

[bikerMD]

Since there undoubtedly will be a next time, what useful counsel on preventative measures can we offer faculties across America?

There are a million winning Super Bowl coaches sitting in their recliners on Monday.

[Joe 6-pack]

"Don’t publish the names and photos of the perps, and certainly don’t publish their manifesto. Deny them the notoriety."

I have mixed feelings about this...as irresponsible as our press is and has been for several decades, we still have a first amendment. Likewise, in the war on terror, control of information is vital. If the press had been restricted in publishing what we know so far about VT, any number of terrorist groups would be free to claim credit for the incident, leading to public confusion, speculation and furthering the ends of these groups. Likewise, knowing the name may elicit past acquaintances and associates who could provide further info / evidence regarding the subject.

To the NYT's credit (wow, am I actually giving them credit for something?), they deliberated about publishing the Unabomber's manifesto, and working closely with the Investigative Support Unit (profilers) at the FBI, doing so led to the ultimate identification of Kaczynski by his brother in Chicago...

[silverleaf]

Ban anti-depressants
Major BS. Would you also ban depressed people? Or only ban depressed people who are receiving treatment?

Otherwise the rest of the article makes some points. Campuses need armed security with 5 minute alert response time. And/Or faculty with approved gun carry rights.

[Publius6961]

Five years ago Peter Odighizuwa, a 43-year-old Nigerian student, killed three faculty members at Appalachian Law School with a handgun, but before he could wreak further carnage two students fetched weapons firearms from their cars, challenged the murderer with guns levelled, and disarmed him.

I think not enough has been said about this.
Even as we discuss the VT massacre, the MSM has a perfect record of witholding this fact from the American public.

Note also that even this critique timidly refers to them as "weapons" (baseball bats? brass knuckles?).

[Trailerpark Badass]

While the logic is flawed, there is a connection which must be examined.

The connection is that crazy people are more likely to be on anti-depressants.

[Brilliant]

I don’t have any problem with them publishing the Unibomber’s manifesto. He was still on the loose, and there was a chance it would lead to his capture.

But this guy is dead, and it’s clear that he did it for the notoriety, just as did the Columbine killers, and the Amish schoolhouse killer. No purpose is served by publishing it, other than to make money, and plant the idea of a copycat in the mind of the next nutcase who wants to call attention to himself as his last act before committing suicide.

[Publius6961]

Don’t publish the names and photos of the perps, and certainly don’t publish their manifesto. Deny them the notoriety.

I most emphatically agree that the piece of garbage's name should never be mentioned, but as to the remainder, I just as emphatically disagree.

It was embarrassingly this morning for the moron police superintendent to express "regret" that NBC aired the images and ramblings of the killer.

That's not his job!!

Has he yet expressed "regret" for timid, incompetent law enforcement to have utterly failed in preventing 29 deaths?

[NavyCanDo]

“Don’t publish the names and photos of the perps, and certainly don’t publish their manifesto. Deny them the notoriety.”

Got a good point there. How many sick sick people watch that video with a twisted amusement and are thinking to themselves that they could do better. They seek fame at any cost, want to be the next America’s Anti-Idol so to speak.

[ctdonath2]

5 minute alert response time

Stare at that for 5 minutes.
Seriously.

Then tell me what you think of a "5 minute response time".

[ctdonath2]

His job wasn’t to prevent the event.
The courts have made that clear.

[Brilliant]

I was surprised to hear Brian Williams talk about this last night. He seemed genuinely embarrassed that his own network had released this info. Pointed out that the killer was using the media, and the media was going along.

[word_warrior_bob]

Repeat... and repeat again: PC killed the 32 students at VT

___

Exactly what do you have to do to be expelled from VT?

Stalking 2 women and setting a fire isnt’ enough? He had a couple of other transgressions too. If he called someone a nigger or a kike you can bet he would have been expelled. How about if he was white and stalked 2 black women, do you think he would have gotten past stalking the first one?

I guess him being a minority himself got him these extra chances to stay on campus.

That being said I’m sure some school killers HAVE been stopped, just like terrorist attacks have, we’ll just never know.

A kid who NEVER speaks to ANYONE, apparently in high school as well is really crying for help and possibly mentally ill dwelling in their own dreamland/psychosis.

He sent out a million warning signals, he never got what he needed though.

[silverleaf]

5 minute response time for armed security? Perhaps a realistic goal for campus/school security.

Arming every student who might face a madman?

Unrealistic but it sure makes good fantasy. You maybe could outdraw and outshoot every future madman. Maybe you ought to offer to train the Amish.

[Ladysmith]

Totally agree. There’s still a point of personal choice and responsibility when on meds, particularly with college-age students. If you pick up a gun and choose to murder someone, you can choose not to...

[tsomer]

I think he was being ironic, implying we should compare rates of firearm posscssion and crime to anti-depressants and crime.More than a defense of gun ownership, this attacks the assumptions that pills can monitor and order society. It’s an attack on nanny-statism.

The student volunteer police is an excellent idea. Scholarships could be offered and ex GI’s would be perfect candidates. The turn-over would be every 2 to 4 years; no burn-outs.

I’m surprised Cockburn’s take on this. I guess he’s going Libertarian. He is pretty smart, after-all.

[Joe 6-pack]

"No purpose is served by publishing it, other than to make money, and plant the idea of a copycat in the mind of the next nutcase who wants to call attention to himself as his last act before committing suicide."

I disagree, and while this may not apply to this incident in particular, it may apply to like incidents in the future: if for no other reason than calling witnesses out of the subject's past, it serves the purpose of helping criminal profilers, criminologists, clinicians etc. develop more mature and robust profiles.

It also serves to put public speculation to rest. Granted there are some here who are still tossing around the "muslim connection," however, if the authorities rigidly withheld the name, you could bet that the speculation and hysteria would be much more widespread. If the authorities withheld the name, and it was later leaked that it was Mustafa al-ibn Aziz, the authorities would be accused of a massive cover up.

Consumers of the media, can, I think, play a big role in making sure the media denegrates rather than lionize the subject in their coverage...I doubt many people in the '30s envied or tried to obtain Bruno Hauptman's level of notoriety despite his name being all over the press...because of the way it was presented. Somebody somewhere is going to know who the subject was, and eventually it's going to get out. When the authorities release it, they retain control over how and under what circumstances the name is released. To do it any other way is a wild card, with even more uncertain consequences.

[Andonius_99]

Arming every student who might face a madman?

Unrealistic but it sure makes good fantasy.

Well, I know one thing's for sure, this student and quite a few others are seriously considering carrying regardless of school rules from now on...

[clamper1797]

Repeat... and repeat again: PC killed the 32 students at VT

This bears repeating

[EndWelfareToday]

Better idea... Arm EVERY student. If the students are not mature enough or smart enough to handle a weapon they have no business being in college.

JMHO

[NY.SS-Bar9]

Ban anti-depressants.

The logic supporting this claim is deeply flawed. Sorry.

OK, how about: "Ban people on anti-depressants that have a demonstrated proclivity to cause mania in any significant percentage of those administered the drug, unless they are closely supervised to eliminate the possibility that the manifestation of said mania might result in the patient causing harm to himself or others."

[TAdams8591]

"A better idea would be for appropriately screened teachers and maybe student monitors to carry weapons. "

All good suggestions, but the one above it THE BEST.

"The college's first email to students goes out more than two hours after the first killings were discovered."

Students and faculty should have at LEAST been alerted within minutes of finding the bodies, to be on the lookout for an armed perpetrator. Police could not have known he would massacre thirty people, but the likihood that the killer was desperate and roaming campus with a gun, and therefore a danger to others, was very high.

[GoldwaterChick]

I agree with denying them the notoriety. The brother of a young woman killed at Columbine has a website. He said he has received wacko comments from kids who are treating the Columbine tragedy as a record to be broken. They brag that they are planning a larger slaughter that will make Columbine look like child’s play. This may just be trash talk, or it may not.

Showing the videotape over and over of Cho ranting sends the message to sick people that world-wide coverage can be yours instantly.

[TAdams8591]

it = is

[Ouderkirk]

Repeat... and repeat again: PC killed the 32 students at VT

Not quite...

Consider:Cho’s ramblings are the same ramblings that you can find in the mind of any socialist/communist. Hatred for those who are successful, wealthy and the children of that wealth. Is Virgina Tech run by Conservatives? No, it’s run by socialists and they are singularly responsible for planting the seeds of discontent in this mans mind. That he went on a rampage and slaughtered so many, is the logical extension of their words.

[TAdams8591]

I agree. Cho obviously wanted notoriety and we are giving it to him.

I don't know with the number and instaneous nature of news outlets that exist today and the great variety of communication technology such as the internet, if it would be possible to deny a perpetrator his notoriety, however.

[montag813]

Cho was actually institutionalised as a psychotic and suicide risk in 2005. Yet when he returned to campus the administrators didn't even tip off his roommate.

You can thank two things for that: the Americans with Disabilities Act, which was stupidly extended to mental illness; and Tipper Gore, who tirelessly championed anti-discrimination and privacy rules for the "mentally ill" that have been adopted by states and municipalities across the nation.

[ctdonath2]

It’s interesting how those holding that view go instantly redefine the opposing view in absurdism that was never expressed.

5 minute response time? yes, that’s a realistic goal - and I simply demonstrated what that meant. Your response indicates you are very uncomfortable with the reality of what you suggested.

Suddenly you lash out with “_every_ student”, “_every_ future madman”, “unrealistic”, “fantasy”, “train the Amish”. Very revealing.

I didn’t say “every” student ... but I sure want each one to have the option to make that choice.
That “unrealistic...fantasy”, insofar as it was allowed to exist, has cut short about 1/3rd of school shootings, saving many lives; perhaps expanding on what works isn’t an unrealistic fantasy after all.
Yes, sometimes the dragon wins - but taking away the sword from every knight assures defeat.
I didn’t suggest “outdraw and outshoot _every_ future madman” ... but you’ll notice that ALL of such madmen have chosen “victim disarmament zones” where they KNEW _nobody_ could fight back; just the mere possibility of having to face competition deters them.
The Amish have made a choice; VT student’s didn’t have that choice, and you would continue to deny them of it.

[Diamond]

Arming every student who might face a madman?

I'm not even a gun aficionado but even I can see that it would not be necessary to arm every student. That's a straw man argument. Just appropriately arm some of them. Prospective killers, not knowing who was armed and who wasn't, might think twice about attempting it. However, even if the prospective killer didn't think twice there would still be the much greater likelihood of stopping the rampage at a much earlier time.

Unrealistic but it sure makes good fantasy. You maybe could outdraw and outshoot every future madman

Disregarding the straw man argument for the moment, I have the feeling that if, God forbid, it would happen to you, that you might find yourself cowering under your desk while your professor and classmates and perhaps you are shot to death by the madman while you really pray (maybe for the first time in your life) for someone with a gun to come and stop him.

By then, though, it's usually too late.

Cordially,

[brityank]

Campuses need armed security with 5 minute alert response time.

Disagree totally; that is what has placed the whole country into this position of wailing and gnashing teeth at these type of incidents.

And/Or [CCW and] faculty with approved gun carry rights.

Someone with a CCW weapon would have stopped each plane on 9-11; the Long Island Rail massacre (and kept that idiot Mahoney out of Congress!); Colombine; Virginia Tech -- and so many others. We need to get back to taking care of our own security, not relying on some feel-good misconstrued laws -- written and enforced, incidentally, by elites that have paid security around them 24/7.

[montag813]

If VT were in Japan, the President would have already taken his own life. This scumbag has no such sense of honor, but he should at least be forced to resign at once. As if it wasn’t bad enough he totally bungled the two-year response to Cho’s conduct, he also lobbied the Virginia Legislature to disarm the students and faculty of his college, for which blood is on his hands today.

[Dead Dog]

And in the case of the “Prevent Defense” They are probably right.

[montag813]

The logic supporting this claim is deeply flawed. Sorry.

How about: take anti-depressants and you get no guns.

[george76]

Allow teachers, staff, and students who have a carry permit to continue to do so .

[ctdonath2]

The unmentioned lesson in all this:
Don’t expect “the authorities” to notify you of a dangerous situation.

Our society, with its constant deluge of information/news, has presumed that everyone is duly informed of everything they need to know.
This is far from the truth.
There is a great deal going on, of interest to many/all, which only a few know about.
All-knowing all-caring mommy doesn’t run the campus.

[Wormwood]

How about: take anti-depressants and you get no guns.

That would be the author's conclusion, which is poorly supported.

[Cold Heat]

What should be banned from campuses are not weapons but prescriptions for anti-depressants

MY! MY!

How interesting it is, that some people with mental problems just happen to be taking antidepressant drugs, so through a giant leap of logic, we blame the drugs?

Perhaps we should see if they were breathing, and blame the air quality.

Some do!

As to the rest of the finger pointing, it makes no sense to shut down a college, when witnesses claim the perp has left the campus. They were misled by witness statements and the initial confusion, and the likelihood that you could effectively lock down a college of this size and get any benefit from doing so, is nonsense. All the lock downs in much smaller, single building schools have had no effect on the actual damages incurred, and the original idea was to prevent unauthorized people from entering a school complex and hurting the kids.

Cho was a student and fully authorized to enter the classroom buildings and dorms. A lock down did not apply here, even if it could have been done.

[Cold Heat]

he totally bungled the two-year response to Cho’s conduct,

According to the documents, the worst offense was irritating another student. Irritation is not a crime.

The school authorities were not comfortable with what they had against Cho to do anything like banning him from campus. He had not yet threatened anyone.

There is no "there" or smoking gun here. There is no particular action that could have been taken by authorities to prevent a 23 year old man from being in a position to do what he did.

Most of the suggestions for the prevention of future crimes that I have read on this forum appear to involve changing our society from free to one of subjugation to certain behavior patterns.

If that is not a sick idea, I have never seen a sick idea.