There used to be a place for these people...
Posted on 04/19/2007 2:59:04 AM PDT by Fighting Irish
What does the word “Ismail Ax” on an arm of the Virginia Tech shooter Cho Seung-hui mean? The Chicago Tribune on Wednesday suggested a reference to the Koran, where Ismail is a son of Abraham (or Ibrahim in Arabic). In Islam, Ismail destroyed idols using an ax with his father after converting to monotheism. In that case, “Ismail Ax” can be interpreted as the punishment of God for unjust acts.
In Christianity and Judaism, Ismail is an outcast. Abraham had Ismail by a slave because his wife Sarah was infertile. But later he expelled the slave and Ismail to the wilderness after Sarah gave birth to Isaac. Some say that Cho might have likened himself to Ismail, given that he was an outsider among fellow students. But since Cho majored in English, other theories speculate that Ismail is a protagonist from literature. Other suggestions include that Ismail is the name of a man who dated Cho’s ex-girlfriend, or is a cryptogram that needs to be deciphered.
Meanwhile, “Ismail Ax” became a top search item on the Web and the third hottest topic on Technorati.com, a U.S. web site that tracks the blogosphere. A man in Texas has come under fire for registering the domain www.ismailax.com as a domain after learning about the news.
(englishnews@chosun.com )
So, unless there is more evidence other than this Ismail thing, if you're going to argue that he was an islamofascist, then you should also argue that he was a "Christian extremist."
P.S. The point is that he probably was neither.
*He also apparently criticized Christianity, though.
It’s better to just say he was evil, and get on with it.
MSNBC is reporting it was “ISMAEL Ax” on his arm - the Chicago Tribune stuff is ancient info.
Page 2 of the manifesto per MSNBC contains:
“Now that you have gone 9/11 on my life like (profanity blacked out by MSNBC) Osama”
Also denigrates Kim Jong-il and Bush in the same paragraph.
Did he reference Christ, or Jesus? Muslims make a lot of nonsense about Jesus, you know. Also, did you read his play, “McBeef”? He seems to lapse into Muslim idioms that make no sense in regards to his character. And did you know that Ismail was a name of a convicted terrorist just a few miles from where he lived who had recruited young South Korean men for jihad?
Yes - FOX News said yesterday there were profanity laced torrents against Christianity, but NBC said they were so vile and profane they edited them out and the excerpts were not shown on the clips released.
The possessed Cho also tried to say he was going to be crucified like Jesus Christ.
“”So, unless there is more evidence other than this Ismail thing, if you’re going to argue that he was an islamofascist, then you should also argue that he was a “Christian extremist.””
What does a Christian Extremist exactly look like? Well, there is that one family that is anti-American and protests against homosexuals at American Heroe’s funerals... but they are not radical, just evil and very, very stupid (the result of having a baby with one’s sister I suppose).
BTW, I know exactly what a radical islamic is and what they do. I also know that satan resides within the cult of islam... therefore islam has as it’s bedrock... evil.
LLS
This is a remarkable coincidence. Source?
What's remarkable is people are incapable of reading and noting that the it now seems that the ENTIRE "Ismail" thing was wholly bogus.
To be brutally honest, anyone that sees anything remotely islamic about "Richard McBeef" is either on crack or almost as nutty as Cho himself.
Gee, I’m on crack or nutty enough to slaughter a few dozen college kids? Not that you’d engage in over-heated rhetoric, though...
Tell me this: you ever hear a non-Muslim use the expression, “fat piece of pork”? (Not “fat pig,” mind you, but “fat pig of pork”?) Or did you ever bang your shoes off as a sign of disrespect?
You just said that that “one family” are evil.
And then you said radical Islam is evil.
The devil can work with whatever foothold he is given.
>> What does a Christian Extremist exactly look like? Well, there is that one family that is anti-American and protests against homosexuals at American Heroe’s funerals... but they are not radical, just evil and very, very stupid (the result of having a baby with one’s sister I suppose). <<
Not only that, but they aren’t Christian extremists. Fred Phelps is an old friend of Al Gore who is working to help Democrats by making the religious right look scary and un-American.
Excuse me, the previous artice title should have ended with a question mark.
Though no memberships in any "white supremacist" groups could be found the MSM nevertheless began to report on "lone wolves."
It was the new tactic of the "Christian white supremacist" groups reported the MSM. Watch out, they are everywhere.
Don't even think about radical Muslim lone wolves -- some would have us say nothing even if Al Qaeda said it was one of their tactics. Go figure.
thanks...
Yep
There used to be a place for these people...
I think that “Ismail Ax” was his gaming handle. According to his roommates, he liked playing Battlefield 2 on his X-Box.
That’s right. He was one of those secret jihadists who keep their Islamic fundamentalism to themselves (/sarc). Give it a break. It is so obvious at this point that he was a total nutcase and yet you still want to try to blame it on Islam. It actually makes people like you look at bit off in the head.
There is a guy who killed abortion dr’s. He was a Christian extremist. Eric Rudolph was a Christian extremist too. Not trying to say that Christianity has equivlalents to Islamic nuts these days, because they certainly don’t!
Anagram: “ismael ax” -> Samael XI. Samael is the angel of death. The “eleven” refers to Samael being the “Adam” of the negative qiballa, which has eleven nodes.
"They" are everywhere. You have no idea how far up this thing goes!
The spelling we’re sure of is the “A. Ishmael” on the package. Ruins your little anagram.
Info on this please?????? I have NEVER heard that!!
I remember him... his own people gave up info that led to his capture at a 7/11 (I think). radical islamics do not turn in their operatives. He was a “loner”, was he not?
LLS
Then it becomes "Hi, Samael!", which is the name of a 1987 sitcom starring Dick Van Patten as the Angel of Death.
What is THAT??
What’s the convicted terrorists name and do you have any info regarding his recruiting efforts?
Amazing that the information is in the ‘public domain’ sent to a news org, and they elected not to release it un-edited on the internet.
Having read both plays, and listened to rap that the same corporate owners sell...
I find it laughable that NBC has HIJACKED the material and wants to dispense it a bit at a time so it can be edited and then summarized so you know what to think of it instead of reading the material and drawing a conclusion.
Of all the corporate commentary on events, NBC is in the cellar of ratings and the manifesto and hijacking of it by NBC shows that the gunman had some empathy for other losers... LOL
To confuse NBC with the rest of the internet is laughable as if smokinggun or another website puts a disclaimer and then redacts... LOL
We regurgitate the facts so you don’t have to chew, editorializing instead of content, and then the observation ‘that hey these teens are savy with info’ assures the fact that NBC’s irrelevance is assured.
Of all the events so far... NBC’s piecemeal promies to release more tomorrow, the hijacking of the manifesto, sets a new news milestonne.
The analysis is he was crazy and evil, and it is just a shame he or others didnt blow his head off BEFORE innocent people wre harmed.
End of analysis.
Both spellings are being reported, evidently he may have used variants.
LOL
At the time, personally considered that that could have been a factor.
However, from this BBC article (at the end of this post) it seems that that wasn't the case. At least one of the victims was of Korean descent.
Virginia shootings: The victims
| Thirty-two people were shot dead at two locations on the Virginia Tech university campus, at least 30 of them killed by 23-year-old Cho Seung-hui. Police say the same gun was used at both locations, but have not yet proved that Cho was present when the first two were killed. Below are the names of the victims who have been identified.
Emily Hilscher, 19, from Woodville, Virginia, was studying animal and poultry sciences, and was known in her hometown as an animal lover. Some reports have suggested Emily was Cho's girlfriend, but police have denied this. Family friend John W McCarthy said: "She worked at a veterinarian's office and cared about them her whole life." She lived on the same floor of West Ambler Johnston Hall as fellow victim Ryan Clark, where she was killed. One friend said of her on Facebook: "She was so filled with life and always had something wonderful to say or was always making me smile."
Student counsellor Ryan Clark, 22, from Martinez, Georgia, was in his final year studying for a triple major in biology, English and psychology. Known as "Stack" by his friends, Ryan was a member of the Marching Virginians campus band. He was the second victim in West Ambler Johnston Hall. His friend, Gregory Walton, said: "He was just one of the greatest people you could possibly know."
Professor Kevin Granata, from the Engineering Science and Mechanics department, carried out orthopaedic research in hospitals before joining the university. He was regarded as one of the top five biomechanics researchers in the US for his work on cerebral palsy. Fellow professor Demetri P Telionis said: "With so many research projects and graduate students, he still found time to spend with his family, and he coached his children in many sports and extracurricular activities."
Professor GV Loganathan, 51, lectured in civil and environmental engineering and had won several awards for his teaching. He had served on the faculty senate and was an adviser to about 75 undergraduate students.
Professor Loganathan moved to the US from the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu in 1977 to teach. He had worked at Virginia Tech since 1982. His brother, GV Palanivel, said: "For us it was like an electric shock."
Professor Liviu Librescu, 76, was a Romanian-born Israeli academic in the Engineering Science & Mechanics Department. He was also a Holocaust survivor and moved to Virginia in 1985. Internationally renowned for his research work, he has been hailed a hero for blocking a doorway to protect his students. His son Joe said he had received e-mails from several students who said he had saved their lives.
Jamie Bishop, 35, was an instructor in foreign languages and literatures teaching German and he helped organise the Virginia Tech exchange programme with a German university. He was formerly a Fulbright scholar at Christian-Albrechts University in Kiel and colleagues there said they were "deeply, deeply shocked by his death". On his own website, Jamie said he had lived in Germany for four years and "spent most of his time learning the language, teaching English, drinking large quantities of wheat beer, and wooing a certain Fraulein". That "Fraulein" was his wife Stephanie Hofer, who also teaches at Virginia Tech.
Canadian Jocelyne Couture-Nowak was a French instructor. Her husband, Jerzy Nowak, is the head of the horticulture department at Virginia Tech. She was the mother of two girls. Jocelyne, who had previously lectured in child development, was described by one Virginia Tech student as "an excellent teacher" who was "extremely nice and understanding". In the 1990s, she lived in Truro, Nova Scotia, and was instrumental in creating the town's first French-speaking school.
She had a degree in architecture from Rizvi College in Mumbai, and was passionate about it because her father was himself an architect.
Daniel Perez Cueva, 21, was from Peru. He was studying international relations and was killed in a French class.
Reema Samaha, 18, from Centreville, Virginia, was a freshman (first year) and a talented dancer. Her brother, Omar, watched her perform at a street fair the day before she died, but said: "I never got to say goodbye." Her sister, Randa, said Reema's family had tried repeatedly to contact her but without success: "So we drove down here praying for the best and just preparing ourselves for the worst and that's what we got, we got the worst."
Reema was a pupil at Westfield High School, where the gunman, Cho, also studied.
Matthew La Porte, 20, from Dumont, New Jersey, was a freshman in university studies. He graduated from Carson Long Military Institute in New Bloomfield, Pennsylvania, in 2005.
Jarrett Lane, from Narrows, Virginia, was a senior (final year) in civil engineering and a valedictorian of Narrows High School. There he played the trombone, competed in athletics and played football and basketball. The school has erected a memorial in his honour bearing photographs, musical instruments and his athletic jerseys. Jarrett's brother-in-law, Daniel Farrell, said he was "full of spirit" and added: "He had a caring heart and was a friend to everyone he met."
Ross Alameddine, 20, from Saugus, Massachusetts, was a sophomore (second year) English major. He was shot during a French class. Friends described him as "an intelligent, funny, easy-going guy" in a memorial posted on internet networking website Facebook. His mother, Lynnette, was angry at how long it took to inform parents about the shootings: "It happened in the morning and I did not hear until a quarter to 11 at night."
Caitlin Hammaren, 19, from Westtown, New York, was a sophomore reading international studies and French. John P Latini, principal of Minisink Valley High School, where she graduated in 2005, said: "She was just one of the most outstanding young individuals that I've had the privilege of working with in my 31 years as an educator."
Her uncle, Ted Kuppinger, said: "She was a beautiful girl, very caring and loving."
Her aunt, Karen, said she had struggled to adjust to Virginia Tech's sprawling 2,600-acre campus, but said she had recently begun making friends and was looking into joining a sorority. She was killed in French class. She had yet to declare her main subject of study.
Juan Ramon Ortiz, 26, was a graduate student in civil engineering. He was married to Liselle Vega Cortes and came from Bayamon, Puerto Rico. His father, also called Juan Ramon, said: "He was an extraordinary son, what any father would have wanted."
Daniel O'Neil, 22, of Rhode Island, was a graduate student in engineering who also played guitar and wrote his own songs, which he posted on a website, www.residenthippy.com. Friend Steve Craveiro said: "He would come home from school over the summer and talk about projects, about building bridges and stuff like that. "He was pretty much destined to be extremely successful." Daniel also worked as a teaching assistant at Virginia Tech.
Maxine Turner, from Vienna, Virginia, was a senior studying chemical engineering. She was described in a web tribute as "an absolutely amazing, intelligent woman".
Henry Lee was from Roanoke, Virginia. He was a freshman, studying computer engineering.
Leslie Sherman was a sophomore at Virginia Tech. She was doing history and international studies.
Her father Grafton said: "My baby didn't make it."
Jeremy Herbstritt, 27, was from Bellefonte, Pennsylvania. He was a graduate student in civil engineering.
JULIA PRYDE Julia Pryde was a graduate student from Middletown, New Jersey.
MICHAEL POHLE
He was from Flemington, New Jersey.
PARTAHI LUMBANTORUAN
Partahi Lumbantoruan, 34, from Indonesia, was a civil engineering doctoral student and had been studying at Virginia Tech for three years, said his father, Tohom Lumbantoruan, a retired army officer. "We tried everything to completely finance his studies in the United States," he said. "We only wanted him to succeed in his studies, but... he met a tragic fate."
LAUREN MCCAIN
Lauren McCain, was 20, from Hampton, Virginia. She was doing international studies.
BRIAN BLUHM Brian Bluhm, 25, formerly of Detroit, was a graduate student in civil engineering and was doing a masters in water resources.
AUSTIN CLOYD Austin Cloyd, from Blacksburg, Virginia, was a first year in international studies and French, and wanted to be a US ambassador. Her former pastor, Rev Terry Harter, said Austin was a "very delightful, intelligent, warm young lady" and an athlete who played basketball and volleyball in high school. Her family had moved from Illinois to Blacksburg, when her father took a job in the accounting department at Virginia Tech.
RACHAEL HILL Rachael Hill, 18, was from Glen Allen, Virginia. |
<< So, unless there is more evidence other than this Ismail thing, if you’re going to argue that he was an islamofascist, then you should also argue that he was a “Christian extremist.” >>
I wish people would stop making this “straw man” argument to try to squelch speculation that he may have been influenced in one or more ways by islamists.
I see very few on here arguing that Cho was a full-fledged “islamofascist.”
And just because he may not have been a card-carrying al qaeda member does NOT mean he therefore could not have picked up and adopted in his own thinking certain threads from islamist thinking.
In particular, his apparent disgust at the hedonism and debauchery of his fellow students is clearly not from modern neo-marxism, and is not at all dissimilar to the ravings of islamists. The MSM has reported that in his note he makes statements that are anti-Christian, and in his NBC rantings he blasphemously presumes to claim that he himself is a Christ-like figure who will inspire future generations thus devilishly mocking Christ, so it clearly seems his criticism of hedonism and debauchery is not because he is a believer in Christ.
And we have little clue as to why he used the persona “Ishmael/Ismail,” but since that is an important name in islam it would be nonsense to dismiss out of hand any tentative speculation along those lines.
And I agree with Krauthammer that, even if it turns out he was not motivated in any respect by islamist thinking, that the manner in which he made the videos echoes the methods and symbols of the suicide jihadis in their videos over the past half-decade, as well of course as the Columbine losers.
So give it a rest with trying to purge any speculation that he may have been influenced somehow by islamists, at least until more facts are in.
At what is your red arrow pointing?
The videos remind of Robert Deniro in Taxi Diver, looking into mirror with gun, “Are you talking to ME?!”
He was apparently “influenced” by a hogepoge of things, including movies portraying slaughtering murderers.
P.T. Barnum.
Exactly. All the available evidence points to 75% Dylan Klebold, 25% Travis Bickle.
Surprisingly, when Dr Savage discussed this Tuesday night, he could not come up with a specific credible reason or link.
But only Islam uses the term.
"They" are everywhere. You have no idea how far up this thing goes!
OK, you owe me a new keyboard. Morning tea all over the place! Fnord!
My take: 55% leftist class warfare, anti-God b.s., 35% Columbine social outcast loser rejected by girls, 10% islamist "western society is decadent and degenerate" crap. And 100% sicko. Subject to adjustment as facts come in.
I don’t think it’s fair to call Rudolph & the abortion-Dr. killers “Christian extremists.” There is nothing in the New Testament which encourages their kind of behavior, and no churches with sermons preaching it, whereas there are plenty of mosques and madrassas inciting violence on a regular basis. An example of a real “Christian extremist” would be someone like Mother Teresa.
A lot of Christians, conservatives, and others are appalled by the "hedonism and debauchery" of many colleges students. Novelist Tom Wolfe recently published a book on that theme. We can't rule out any Islamist influence on Cho at this time, but what is mainly clear is that he was a demented nihilistic person. Unlike most of his victims, he seems to have no positive purpose for his life.
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago -- never mind how long precisely -- having little or no money ..."
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
