Posted on 04/05/2007 3:18:25 PM PDT by the anti-liberal
That’s heartening to know. May god bless you.
I was active duty Navy when the Iranians did this to our country for 400 plus days under the goober-grubbing, racoon-eatin-fishguts-outta-wirebrush, lame-ass, pathetic excuse for a President JIMMAH — but I don’t recall any of OUR Marines issuing statements in support of the Iranians.
Piss on the Brits. They caved in and rolled over.
No. I reference it
because it was similar
and the US guys
found ways to eff with
their captors rather than just
play the bad guy's games.
This is the “marine” that claims he didn’t desert his post. Yet, funny how when he goes on “Christmas leave” while under investigation, he ups and flees to Canada, and is now most likely in Lebanon, as stated in my last post.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1174618/posts
The Military Code of Conduct; It 's Unrealistic and Deadly
August/September 1996 Issue
By Ted Sampley
U.S. Veteran Dispatch
When asked about the Code of Conduct and how it had applied to him while he was in captivity, the first prisoner of war from the Gulf War, Jeffrey Zaun, told author and West Point Military Academy professor Major Elliott Gruner, "We gave that [the Code] up years ago."
Navy pilot Zaun, who was shot down and captured by Iraqi forces January 18, 1991, became an instant hero after his bruised and battered face was televised by CNN two days later. His injuries and zombie like behavior confirmed what Americans have grown to expect U.S. military men to endure if captured. "Our leaders and our people have wrongly attacked the peaceful people of Iraq," the battered Zaun told an interrogator during the Iraqi produced television special, which was transmitted all over the world by CNN.
<Snip>
The Iraqis did not have to torture the Gulf War POWs because the prisoners had learned from the Vietnam POW experience and played along with their captors, allowing their image to be broadcast so their status as a live prisoner would be confirmed.
They believed their statements damning the United States effort would later be discredited. Zaun said that "90 percent of [his] facial injuries were caused by ejection." He said he had hit himself in the nose and face as hard as he could stand when he learned the Iraqis were taking him to a television station. His self-inflicted disfigurement apparently prevented a second television broadcast.
<Snip>
It has been forty years since the Code of Conduct was first "hammered out." The U.S. military and its technology has changed significantly, thus making the battlefield more fluid and exposing more U.S. service personnel to the chance of being captured.
The majority of our military personnel are still not being realistically trained in what to expect from the enemy if captured. Some do attend specialized survival schools, but most of the resistance and survival training is offered only to pilots and special operations personnel. The new dimension of U.S. women in combat has now added the high possibility of rape to the hazards of military service and the POW experience.
It is obvious that the Code of Conduct, in its current form, is not enough to protect U.S. prisoners of war from an enemy who has become more sophisticated in its abilities to exploit prisoners. After prisoners have resisted "to the utmost" of his or her ability, then what do they do? The Code does not answer that question.
The 'soft bigotry of lowered expectations' comes to mind; increased woman on the front lines comes to mind; 'don't ask, don't tell' comes to mind.
And thanks for the opposing PoV, that's always important.
Thank you for that - I needed a laugh! And very interesting too.
“We gave that [the Code] up years ago.”
I wonder who “we” are?
There is no proof of any orders, just orders (only heard on American tv and radio where they originated).
As for acting honorably, if you’d have made the ultimate sacrifice in that situation, then fair play to you, but most people would have seen a way out of it, and that was via cooperation.
Making a pointless stand and having 15 (by all accounts very young people) lose their lives to placate some OTT hawks was not a sensible policy.
I don’t deny it was painful to watch, but most decent people would wait to hear their side of the story before they began pontificating.
In all the discussion on the radio there were frequent mentions of the code.
Problem is that the code is USA. I have no idea what the british use.
Here's how one of the crew put it
"They beat the snot out of us. One of our guys, Chuck Law, was beaten so badly he lost his sight in one eye," said Rigby, who stopped and struggled to remain composed before continuing. "
See also www.usspueblo.org
Seems to me soldiers aren’t being made the way they used to make ‘em, so I don’t know..
No, they’re making them better. Retired in “76” after 23 yrs in the Corps, and I must say these Marines today are awesome. Semper Fi
If that is true, then no dishonor accrues to the individual sailors and marines. To their Ministry of Defence, and the rest of their FReeking government, lots of dishonor accrues.
“After prisoners have resisted “to the utmost” of his or her ability, then what do they do?”
I was trained that if you relinquished information, you were to do your best to regain control, and to try to make them start from scratch again.
I agree. And I am hopefully waiting to hear that the sailors were actually forced to smile and feign joy, in addition to apologizing for their government's actions and expressing thanks for the gift of their release.
However, you are correct that nobody knows for certain how they would act in a situation like that.
Forced out of fear for their lives.
Who gives a shit if they smiled and said all the right things to get home?
So long as they come out in the next few days and confirm they didn’t mean it (as is almost certainly going to happen) I would say it will make the iranians look even more foolish.
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