How nurseries 'still breed aggression' (New study points out behavior problems r/t daycare)

The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | March 26, 2007 | Sarah Womack

[Stoat]

How nurseries 'still breed aggression'

By Sarah Womack, Social Affairs Correspondent
 

Last Updated: 1:15am BST 26/03/2007

 

 

Children who spend a lot of time in nursery are more likely to be aggressive and disobedient throughout primary school - no matter how excellent the nursery, according to study published today.

Primary school teachers are more likely to say that such children - even at the age of 11 - are still "getting into fights" or "arguing a lot".

The findings, from a continuing study of nearly 1,400 children, reignite the debate about whether working women damage their children's health by putting them into nurseries too young. They also provide ammunition to those who accuse the Government of pressurising mothers back to work too early to reduce the benefits bill.

However, the findings are controversial. Other experts say that so many factors account for behaviour - genes, parental income and education, family life - that it is wrong to blame nurseries and alarm parents. Even the study's authors have fallen out about the way the findings are being presented.

One of them, who wished to remain anonymous, accused lead author Jay Belsky, the director of the Institute for the Study of Children, Families and Social Issues at Birkbeck College, University of London, of "shouting 'fire' in a crowded theatre by exaggerating the negative.

The study also found, for example, that children in high-quality care were more articulate at the age of 10, with a bigger vocabulary.

The research, published in the Easter edition of the journal Child Development, and carried out by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development in America, began studying 1,364 children at one month of age.

The most comprehensive study of child care to date, it measured the amount, type and quality of care that the children experienced from birth through to the age of four and a half, and their emotional and linguistic development to 11. Prof Belsky said the findings were important because it had been assumed that poor-quality nurseries were bad for children, not high-quality ones.

"Good quality care simply does not protect against these developmental consequences (like aggression), I am truly sorry to say, at least not in the USA," the psychology professor said.

Parents frequently pay £12,000 to £16,000 a year in places such as London and the Home Counties to send children to a local nursery.

For example, Little Unicorn Day Nursery in Canary Wharf, east London, costs £16,200 a year for a child under two, and £13,500 for an older child attending full-time. This compares with the annual fees charged by public schools such as Dulwich College (£11,895) and St Paul's (£14,000).

Unlike schools, however, nurseries operate 51 weeks a year and are often open between 7.30am and 7pm.

But other authors involved in the research stressed that parenting quality was a "much more important predictor of child development than type, quantity, or quality, of child care".

Walter Gilliam, the assistant professor of child psychiatry and psychology at Yale University, who was not involved in the project, said the study had limitations.

"The relationship between the amount of (nursery) care a child receives and behavioural problems may not be due solely to the child care, but to parents working longer and later hours, the stress and home difficulties that may go along with those work conditions, and other factors related to families that need to work difficult hours," he said.

Prof Belsky acknowledged that it was a "developmental mystery" why children exposed to nursery were more aggressive - although lack of trained staff, and lack of time to tackle rows over toys or activities were factors.

Prof Belsky caused controversy in the US in 2001, with researchers questioning whether their controversial work on another study had been misrepresented. Their findings showed that the more time children spent in child care, the more likely their teachers were to report behaviour problems such as aggression in kindergarten.

The professor retorted that they were "running from this data like a nuclear bomb went off" because they were committed to putting an approving stamp on child care.

[Stoat]

Mom's List Ping :-)

[Stoat]

Education Ping

[TonyRo76]

Liberalism breeds aggression...from me, anyway.

;)

[Stoat]

Liberalism breeds aggression...from me, anyway.

;)

Yes, there's that too  :-)

Liberalism breeds aggression...from me, anyway.

;)

[brytlea]

Hmmm, whoda thought that raising small children in herds might not be ideal?
Truthfully, I don't think there is much of a mystery here. Children in groups of like aged children HAVE to be more aggressive, louder, more insistent, etc, if they hope to get any attention or anything else.
When my boys were young, I noticed that I could very quickly tell which of their friends were day care babies simply by their behavior. It was almost fool proof. The loud/aggressive ones invariabley spent alot of time in day care.
I'm also not surprised that no one wants to hear this, as it's terribly inconvenient.
susie

[Stoat]

There's no substitute for Mom and Dad :-)

[~OregonSandy~]

It is inconvient for a lot of people. I know there are some that have no choice in the matter of working but I know a lot of moms who frankly can't stand to be around their kids all day. I wonder then...why have them at all? I've been a SAHM for almost 8 years now and have another year before my youngest is in Kindergarten. At that point, I will return to teaching as a sub and still be home when they are home. We've not had a lot of material possessions these last 8 years but what we do have can never be bought with money.

[brytlea]

Good for you. I did the same thing, and my now grown boys were the better for it. Even more telling, they want their wives to stay home with their kids (when they have them).
It wasn't always easy, we had old junker cars and didn't take vacations other than to family very often. I bought most of their clothes at the cheap stores, and we almost never ate out. But, I would not trade the wonderful memories for any thing.
susie

[metmom]

ANOTHER REASON TO HOMESCHOOL

This ping list is for the "other" articles of interest to homeschoolers about education and public school. If you want on/off this list, please freepmail me. The main Homeschool Ping List by DaveLoneRanger handles the homeschool-specific articles.

[pepperdog]

"Children who spend a lot of time in nursery are more likely to be aggressive....The study also found, for example, that children in high-quality care were more articulate at the age of 10, with a bigger vocabulary."

I don't know why, but this caused me to laugh hysterically. Maybe they can cuss each other out using bigger words? Natural born killer with large vocabulary? Talk you to death? Arrrgh!

[metmom]

Same story here, exactly. There are some things money can't buy.

[Stoat]

Thank you very much for pinging your list   :-)

 

[redheadtoo]

I recall something I read years ago, I'm sorry but I have no recollection of the source.

An American couple, working in China, decided to put their toddler in a government preschool. Soon the teachers reported that their child was being disruptive.

The horrified mother went to the preschool to see just what terrible things her child was doing. She found her son quietly playing, interacting normally with toys and people, while the "good" children sat in rows like automatons not moving or speaking, just staring into space.

She quickly removed her son from that environment and the couple left their jobs and returned home to the states.

[metmom]

Unlike schools, however, nurseries operate 51 weeks a year and are often open between 7.30am and 7pm.

How pathetic.

[brytlea]

You got that right. BTW my Mom worked while I was growing up, and altho I loved my Mom, I gotta say, I resented going to a nursery and not having a Mom home when I got home from school.
susie

[ApplegateRanch]

Children who spend a lot of time in nursery are more likely to be aggressive

So, if we took Muslim children out of their daycare madrassas...

[ApplegateRanch]

The loud/aggressive ones invariabley spent alot of time in day care.

On the bright side, they make fantastic Amway dealers when they grow up!

Thinking that over, let's ditch the day care.

[Bosco]

I had a discussion in the early 90's with a Christian psychologist about this very thing. It was in the context of kids/schools/crime. He essentially said that if we thought things were bad then (90's), wait until the daycare generation grew up. Terms used: psychopathic/anti-social behavior. Violence was assumed.

[Verginius Rufus]

From the headline, I thought the article was going to be about attack rhododendrons.

[Stoat]

Unlike schools, however, nurseries operate 51 weeks a year and are often open between 7.30am and 7pm.

How pathetic.

Well, we can't be having Junior and his / her needs interfering with Mom and Dad's work or happy hour now can we?

How rude of them to close at 7...don't they care that after-work parties oftentimes run long past that time?

A 24 hour daycare facility is obviously the way to go, so that Mom or Dad can just pop in and say 'coochie-coo' to the little one when it's convenient.

In the 1980's, when this 'daycare lifestyle' became fashionable, I could see all of this without any fancy studies...a 'psychopath factory' would be a polite way to put it.

Unlike schools, however, nurseries operate 51 weeks a year and are often open between 7.30am and 7pm.

How pathetic.

[Stoat]

From the headline, I thought the article was going to be about attack rhododendrons.

Entirely understandable, given the wildly popular nature of such flora.

Monstrous fun at the florist's Theatre Stage Arts Telegraph

 

Gem of a comic performance: Sheridan Smith with Paul Keating

[edsheppa]

Well, nothing a good thrashing won't fix.

[television is just wrong]

I stayed home and raised my children. Why do people have children? to hand them off to someonelse to raise?

[Jason_b]

"I resented going to a nursery and not having a Mom home when I got home from school."

I have some direct experience. After mom divorced dad in 1970, I got to be a latch-key child. After school, I waited for dad to get home. Mom remarried a single dad with three older boys and gave everything to them. I was withdrawn and depressed but not aggressive. My guts were in knots for 25 years. I don't have one tat or piercing, have done ok education and career-wise and I have a very good foreign-born wife of ten years.

I was reading a book by Samuel Pufendorf which had a chapter on how men naturally have a sense of honor and self-worth and should treat each other respectfully.

It got me to thinking, I couldn't have expressed it back then, but small children have a sense of honor too which they cannot assert. Small children dumped in day care, nurseries, palmed off on others, will feel dishonored, disrespected, by their own parents, to the point of excruciating, but will be unable to react as an adult would by challenging the dishonor and insisting the other party make it right.

Perhaps as an adult, the child will figure it out and put the right words to the feelings, or not, but either way, we will likely find these same kids don't want to take care of mom and dad when they get old. Mom and/or dad, may find themselves in nursing homes to a larger degree, and not the nice ones either.

Maybe the children, grown, will show up to say coochie coo from time to time. Or not, if it isn't convenient. Perhaps we will be reading some years hence, how "Nursing homes still breed aggression' (New study points out behavior problems r/t nursing homes)

What goes around comes around.

[Stoat]

I stayed home and raised my children. Why do people have children? to hand them off to someonelse to raise?

Oh, but you are missing the point, don't you see.  A Modern (feminist) Woman should be able to have it all...big career, big income, big family, and all without being chained to the kitchen like we all know she was for all of human history, particularly under the Domination of the Evil White Male.

Any woman who doesn't follow that path is letting down The Sisterhood, and is actually a Traitor To The Cause.

This notion of women needing to expend time and effort to raise a child properly is a lie and a fiction that has been laid at the feet of women strictly in order to facilitate their DOMINATION BY EVIL WHITE MEN.

(hopefully I don't need a 'sarcasm' tag  :-))

[FlyVet]

In the past I have heard (psychobabble or not) that the first three years are the most important of a child's formative years. That the first three years will play a large part in determining the child's personality.

If that is true, it seems putting a bunch of infant strangers together, all fighting for desperately-needed attention, would cause them to become aggressive in a dog-eat-dog kinda way.

Nothing wrong with aggressive pursuit of life on your own merit, but not if you have to stab others in the back to achieve things.

[Scotswife]

"The study also found, for example, that children in high-quality care were more articulate at the age of 10, with a bigger vocabulary."

yes. They have more than one way to tell you to go %**@ yourself.

7-7:30?

51 wks a yr?

And this is a "mystery?"


like I suspected - having a psych degree does not make a person very intelligent.

[asburygrad]

I know of some day cares in our city that are open 24 hours a day for parents who work third shift.

[SquirrelKing]

Please pardon the choppiness of this post - some of the idiocy I see expressed here has me very upset.

For starters, I was homeschooled and raised by a stay-at-home mom. Likewise, my wife's mom opted out of college to stay home and raise her children. I know the value of "mom and dad". I also know that daycare isn't a godless drop-a-tot hellhole that some here seem to think.

My wife and I both work and no, we do not live extravagantly, and no she isn't a career-focused fem-Nazi.

He gets the best care, and we are both active and involved in all daycare events. Furthermore, he is loved. Truly loved and knows it. Not with overcompensation and guilt but with feeling, structure and Christian parenting.

What I am trying to say is that yes, you can stay home and raise your kids all you want, that's fine, but there are other good people just like you who don't have that option at the moment.

Oh, and our "stay at home moms"? Both divorced and now fighting hard in a world after having had to take entry-level jobs in thier forties and struggling with health issues. Neither of their husbands thought it wise for them to get an education or build skills that would allow them to survive better in the autumn of their lives.

I would have traded all my growing up underfoot if it would have allowed mom to be better situated now.

[ansel12]

I lived the feminist version of the idyllic childhood.

I was in daycare in 1955 until I could transfer to kindergarten, when that let out about noon, I would walk almost 2 miles to a parent-less house.

I was shocked when daycare started being pushed as a wonderful thing during the 70s.

[little jeremiah]

I'll ping the MA list tomorrow with this.

[Lil'freeper]

Prof Belsky acknowledged that it was a "developmental mystery" why children exposed to nursery were more aggressive

Prof Belsky obviously hasn't read Lord of the Flies.

[LearnsFromMistakes]

There's no substitute for Mom and Dad :-)

uh, yeah. a village... ;)

[metmom]

Interesting thoughts. Probably what the kids are interpreting being left in daycare is that their parents don't want them and if your own parents don't want you, who does? Every kid knows that parents are supposed to love and want their own children, at least, even if they can't stand anyone else's.

[metmom]

The *freedom* promised women by the feminists is just a form of bondage or slavery that's more oppressive than what they're allegedly being rescued from. Technically, the women are supposed to be equal with men, but I'll bet the woman does the lion's share of running the household in addition to being out earning money. The pressure on her has to be far greater.

I worked at a job before I got married, not a career, a job; and I'll tell you, I couldn't have been happier to quit, get married, finish college, have a family, and STAY HOME.

[RavenATB]

"Hmmm, whoda thought that raising small children in herds might not be ideal? "


Exactly! There are only two significant differences between "Day Care" and a dog kennel:

1. Dog kennels are much more strict about keeping sick pets out then day cares are about keeping sick kids out.

2. Dog kennels do much more to separate animals for their protection than day care centers do for kids.

Aside from these two factors, day care centers and dog kennels are essentially the same thing.

[VanDeKoik]

You forgot the </moronic comment> tag at the end of that.

[LiberationIT]

FYI - there is an article on this study in today's Wall Street Journal. Page B1.

[TalonDJ]

I would have traded all my growing up underfoot if it would have allowed mom to be better situated now.

Have you told you mom that? I would expect she would cry that you think so little of her spending some of her best years with you. Ask HER if SHE regrets it now. I think you will be surprised to find out she counts her present problems as nothing compared to the chance to have raised you in the way she thought was best.

Incidentally I am also a homeschool grad. So is my wife. I would rather live in a trailer and work the night shift so she could teach them than to send them off to day care of school or anything. No we don't have any kids yet but we will soon and it will be a huge pay cut when she comes home.

[television is just wrong]

I know. I have been really put down and insulted for staying at home too.

[SquirrelKing]

Thank you for your reply - I appreciate your tone. I was more reacting to some who were responding as if all daycare is bad and parents who choose that path are simply career whores.

Have you told you mom that? I would expect she would cry that you think so little of her spending some of her best years with you. Ask HER if SHE regrets it now. I think you will be surprised to find out she counts her present problems as nothing compared to the chance to have raised you in the way she thought was best.

Yes, we have discussed it many times. We wish she had at least pursued something part-time or gained more education alongside my brother and I. True, she understands the choices she made and "regrets" no time spent with us - but wishes she had at least prepared to be on her own in her fifties with no education, no experience and failing health while competing with other entry-level workers.

Incidentally I am also a homeschool grad. So is my wife. I would rather live in a trailer and work the night shift so she could teach them than to send them off to day care of school or anything. No we don't have any kids yet but we will soon and it will be a huge pay cut when she comes home.

Good luck with this. Seriously. Your children will give you such indescribable joy. I never thought I would ever know such happiness as I do when I look into his bright eyes and my day cannot start until I see his little smile.

[RavenATB]

"You forgot the </moronic comment> tag "

Make your case.

[Kaylee Frye]

So it is all-or-nothing? You make it sound like either the wife doesn't get an education and she stays home with the kids OR she goes to work... Amazingly enough the world is not black and white. Plenty of SAHMs started out by going to college, having a career, then staying home.

In fact, that is just what my husband I plan to do. I've already got 4 years into the working world post-college and hopefully sometime in the next 5 years we will start our family and I will be a SAHM for the next 20ish years while I homeschool the kids.... Sure I will have to retrain a little when I go back to work, but a lot of that can be done while I'm working at home (I happen to be a programmer, so can take courses in the evenings/spare time online) and I can be ready to go back to a career immediately when the kids go off to college.

[SquirrelKing]

So it is all-or-nothing? You make it sound like either the wife doesn't get an education and she stays home with the kids OR she goes to work... Amazingly enough the world is not black and white. Plenty of SAHMs started out by going to college, having a career, then staying home.

No, that's not what I said. My actual comment was:

"What I am trying to say is that yes, you can stay home and raise your kids all you want, that's fine, but there are other good people just like you who don't have that option at the moment."

There is nothing "black and white" in that statement - only a desire to understand that circumstances vary.

As for either staying at home or working: the experience of both our stay-at-home moms have taught us that at least an education or part-time working experience would have been preferable to their current, less-marketable situations. This seems to be exactly in keeping with your own choice.

[Jason_b]

"The *freedom* promised women by the feminists is just..."

read somewhere today describing the freedom promised women by feminists was actually freedom for love-em-n-leave-em type men to get exactly what they want. I remember. It was a Thomas Sowell article, random thoughts on a passing scene.

[maica]

Children in groups of like aged children HAVE to be more aggressive, louder, more insistent, etc, if they hope to get any attention or anything else.

I'm amazed that this is coming as a shock to many people.

[metmom]

And while you're at it, save, save, save. Money goes fast with kids.

Either that or use all you can to pay off your mortgage if you have one. You'll save THOUSANDS later and if you have a home with no mortgage, you don't ever have to worry about some cut throat mortgage company repossessing because of a few missed payments because of medical problems (like happened to a family I know. The justice was, the house sat for sale by the mortgage company for TWO years before it sold.)

[Kaylee Frye]

Yes, but you went on to say that it was such a mistake for your mom because she didn't get any education because she was a SAHM. I just wanted to make it really clear that the two are not mutually exclusive.

[Jason_b]

"Probably what the kids are interpreting being left in daycare is that their parents don't want them and if your own parents don't want you, who does? Every kid knows that parents are supposed to love and want their own children..."

Mostly true except it is important to remember children do no interpret things like adults do. Adults interpret according to a frame of reference, a context, and can deal with rejection by saying, hey, I don't care, you reject me, so I reject you. So there. This is healthy.

When the only frame of reference, the only context a child has IS the rejection, the child is unable to escape. It is not a thing that happened, to be coped with. It becomes a status like slave, low class, ugly, stupid, dork, but in our case, rejected by parent. It becomes who we are and affects our lives and choices. Yes as you said we accept our judgement as not good enough and will opt out of opportunities for social growth because we don't feel we meet the prerequisite. That is for other "acceptable" people. Risk aversion is another sign, for kids who don't make friends easily, it might be because the kids already don't feel worthy, dread future rejection and find it easier just not to get involved in the first place.

Something else I find, kids don't analyze how much power they have, it just is what it is. But kids whose parents are neglectful, have a feeling I can remember back as powerlessness, but those who experience it in real time won't be able to name it. Kids see "acceptable" peers as more powerful, therefore threatening, and will keep an emotional if not spacial distance to stay safe.

Parents are in an unique position of power and can get away with things that are awful and the younger kids won't complain because they are dependent and don't want to make it worse on themselves. If it is bad enough it is a type of stockholm syndrome with your own parents.

But speaking of power, if I had any sense of power when I was 8, the day my mother sat me down to tell me she was divorcing my dad, I put on a falsely brave face and accepted it. I wish instead I told her, you leave dad, and you lose me forever. You better hope things go damn well with that other bunch because if they don't you aren't going to have me to fall back on. Talking back to a parent like that can be intimidating.

I recall the military has a thing now that recruits can hand the drill instructor a red card indicating too much stress as a sign the DI should go easy. I'm thinking of something like that for kids.

I have had the idea to have a free online kit, of cards, for kids that age that I wish I had myself, to hand to mom, and dad, when they announce the divorce, to let them know where they'll stand for doing that. No, I won't take care of you and make sure you are comfortable in your old age. You forfeit that. No, I won't love, like, nor even tolerate step sisters, step brothers, step anything. I accept only my natural brothers and sisters, my natural mother and father, married, living under one roof, our home. No exceptions. Anything to give these kids a little power. Since the state has written them off anyway.