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Ethanol's Growing List of Enemies
Business Week ^
| March 19, 2007
| Moira Herbst
Posted on 03/18/2007 10:46:42 PM PDT by thackney
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1
posted on
03/18/2007 10:46:43 PM PDT
by
thackney
To: thackney
A large proportion of the corn from which ethanol is being extracted is left over to feed to cattle. They thrive on it.
2
posted on
03/18/2007 10:49:57 PM PDT
by
EternalVigilance
(Rudy wants to move the GOP to Guyana and create Utopia - Drink up everyone!)
To: thackney
I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's wrong to set up a system in which the production of fuel directly competes with the production of bourbon.
3
posted on
03/18/2007 10:57:02 PM PDT
by
Jeff Chandler
(] Tagline Under Construction [)
To: EternalVigilance
***A large proportion of the corn from which ethanol is being extracted is left over to feed to cattle.***
About 28 years ago during the first ethanol binge a local producer poisoned a large number of cattle when he sold his leftovers to the feed yards. The corn he used was surplus planting corn that had been treated and dyed with an mercury anti-fungiside.
To: Jeff Chandler
Ditto in regards to
sugar cane.
Somebody needs to set those Brazilians straight before this gets out of hand.
5
posted on
03/18/2007 11:05:31 PM PDT
by
Hoplite
To: EternalVigilance
A large proportion of the corn from which ethanol is being extracted is left over to feed to cattle. They thrive on it.,p>
EXACTLY, and because there are so many ethanol plants going on line there is a glut of it and the cost in many areas has dropped to $60 ton. The whole thing balances out. Corn way up ... DGs way down. DGs are so concentrated with proteins, vitamins an minerals it must be mixed with normal rations and increases the productivity of beef cattle as much as ten percent. All this BS about cost of food going up because of ethanol production is just that... so much BS.
6
posted on
03/18/2007 11:08:12 PM PDT
by
suijuris
To: thackney
The problem here is we won't buy ethanol from anyone but corn producers. Brazil wants to export to us, but we won't lower the import tax. Why won't we get ethanol from sugar cane, sugar beets, rice, potatoes, from other countries? Iowa has this sewed up in congress. We cannot plan enough corn to do this. It will take other crops and other countries to make a difference in oil imports. Africa, Haiti, Dominican Rep, etc, all have sugar plantations rotting in the sun. We can't sell rice to China, Japan, or Viet Nam because they protect their farmers. There are plenty of carbs around to make ethanol if we just get off the corn only bandwagon.
7
posted on
03/18/2007 11:12:58 PM PDT
by
chuckles
To: Hoplite
Hey, weren't you one of the 300?
8
posted on
03/18/2007 11:13:47 PM PDT
by
Jeff Chandler
(] Tagline Under Construction [)
To: Jeff Chandler
I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's wrong to set up a system in which the production of fuel directly competes with the production of bourbon. Well, there's fuel, and then there's FUEL...
9
posted on
03/18/2007 11:14:26 PM PDT
by
EternalVigilance
(Rudy wants to move the GOP to Guyana and create Utopia - Drink up everyone!)
To: chuckles
Good idea, but it was a matter of first things first. Let's face it. We had mountains of corn...literally. We've been shipping it out of the country in the billions of bushels for decades to feed other country's hogs. Selling it for a pittance, and having to heavily subidize farmers because of it.
Better to add value to it at home, which is what we're doing.
10
posted on
03/18/2007 11:18:05 PM PDT
by
EternalVigilance
(Rudy wants to move the GOP to Guyana and create Utopia - Drink up everyone!)
To: Jeff Chandler
I'm happy to report that I am neither on my shield nor a thespian.
11
posted on
03/18/2007 11:31:29 PM PDT
by
Hoplite
To: thackney
every gallon of ethanol produced,
is 2/3 of a gallon of petroleum
that no longer needs to come from the middle east.
if the US does not turn corn into ethanol,
and exports the corn,
someone else will turn the corn into ethanol.
To: Jeff Chandler
[I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's wrong to set up a system in which the production of fuel directly competes with the production of bourbon.]
Bloody well right.
13
posted on
03/18/2007 11:42:13 PM PDT
by
jim35
("...when the lion and the lamb lie down together, ...we'd better damn sure be the lion")
To: Hoplite
"I'm happy to report that I am neither on my shield nor a thespian."Glad to hear it. "Come home with victory or come home on your shield." Spartan mother's admonition to their sons before battle. :-)
14
posted on
03/18/2007 11:44:12 PM PDT
by
Desron13
(If you constantly vote between the lesser of two evils then evil is your ultimate destination.)
To: EternalVigilance
Agreed, but look at the size of the problem and corn won't do it by itself. The farmers will get rich anyway you work this. We need the ethanol yesterday however. It will take decades to work ethanol all across the US at this pace. Remember in '75 the gubmint required a no lead pump at every station? We need the same commitment now or the ethanol will dry up because nobody but the mid west can get it. If I knew I could get E85 all across the country, I would convert my own engine to burn it right now. I would raise the compression ratio and do other things to increase the efficiency of the engine. I could get greater fuel mileage than I get on gas by doing so with more power.
Having a duel fuel arrangement just gets you less economy per gallon of ethanol because the engine is just a gas engine that will burn ethanol.
15
posted on
03/18/2007 11:44:30 PM PDT
by
chuckles
To: thackney
Use barley and other grains instead.
To: chuckles
In Manitoba Canada, thier ethanol plant uses mostly grain, since corn does grow as well at that latitude. They can also use sugar beets and other crops depending on supplies. I can't figure out why corn is the only crop those ethanol plants use, when corn isn't even the best crop TO use for maximum ethanol production.
It must be a sweetheart deal with Ohio and it's mainly corn producers, ie someones getting they pockets lined.
Just as I can't see why a hog producer is squealing about corn prices for feed stocks. Most hog producers don't even use corn, at least not at any of the super barns around here.
Corn isn't the best for nutritional value, produces more stinky waste, and is always more expensive than other feed stocks, which are barley based blends, which include crops such as peas, lentils, soy beans, flax tailings, and waste from the human food markets, such as day old bread/ bakery waste, eggs, milk, vegetable and other products with expiry dates, all of which is gathered up by feedstock companies and mixed into cheap pigslop.
Plus, it isn't such a bad thing that commodity prices are going up, perhaps farmersw will make enough money actually growing crops and we can get rid of all those subsidies.
To: Nathan Zachary
Ethanol is corporate welfare for Archer Daniels Midland and farmers.
If the stuff is worth it a market will appear for it.
And all the subsidies now. Every single one of them.
L
18
posted on
03/19/2007 12:45:07 AM PDT
by
Lurker
(Calling islam a religion is like calling a car a submarine.)
To: Nathan Zachary
"someones getting they pockets lined" When it comes to the ethanol scam, ADM comes to mind.
19
posted on
03/19/2007 12:45:12 AM PDT
by
endthematrix
(Both poverty and riches are the offspring of thought.)
To: chuckles
"If I knew I could get E85 all across the country, I would convert my own engine to burn it right now. I would raise the compression ratio and do other things to increase the efficiency of the engine. I could get greater fuel mileage than I get on gas by doing so with more power." Building a better, high performace engine is certainly one of the nice things about ethanol, But I don't think you understand the reasons why.
You are dead wrong in thinking that you will get better fuel economy, as you need to burn more ethanol than you would gasoline.
The reason you can develop more power is because ethanol has a higher detonation point , allowing you to raise compression ratio's back to what they were when they used to build good motors.
You need to open up/ replace fuel jets in carberators with bigger ones however, as it takes more ethanol to produce the same amount of power at temperatures that don't melt your valves and pistons.
So, although you will have a very clean running engine, not only will you be paying much more for a gallon of ethanol E85, you won't get as far down the road with it either. (But it would be a little more fun)
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