Rudy’s Dark Side (barf alert)

msnbc ^ | 2 6 07 | Jonathan Alter

[flixxx]

Feb. 6, 2007 - Over the last decade, I’ve seen both good Rudy and bad Rudy up close. The question for voters as he enters the presidential campaign is: which Rudy Giuliani will show up on the trail—and which Rudy would go to work in the White House? And if even a little of the bad Rudy is still around, does that make him temperamentally unsuited to the presidency?

[flixxx]

OK, now the Left can start bashing Giuliani. Maybe they are getting worried now that he has 'officially' declared that he is going to declare?

I like Rudy and think he will do well. Based on some of the rabid dislike of Rudy voiced on Free Republic, and the fact that the Left is now also coming out against him...I am reminded by the quotes from Animal House---"They can't treat our pledges like that...only WE can treat our pledges like that!!!

[narses]

I’m pro-choice. I’m pro-gay rights, Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. “No, I have not supported that, and I don’t see my position on that changing,” he responded. Source: CNN.com, “Inside Politics” Dec 2, 1999 http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Rudy_Giuliani_Abortion.htm

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES (November 14, 2006)

RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: I'm pro- choice. I'm pro-gay rights.

KING: Giuliani supports a woman's right to an abortion, and back in 1999, he opposed a federal ban on late-term abortions.

GIULIANI: No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing.

KING: Immigration could be another presidential landmine. Back in 1996, Mayor Giuliani went to federal court to challenge new federal laws requiring the city to inform the federal government about illegal immigrants.

JEFFREY: He took the side of illegal immigrants in New York City against the Republican Congress.

KING: Giuliani opposes same-sex marriage but as mayor, he supported civil unions and extending health and other benefits to gay couples. He also supported the assault weapons ban and other gun control measures opposed by the National Rifle Association.

GIULIANI: I'm in favor of gun control. I'm pro-choice.

Republican Big-Wigs Support Pro-Abortion Event in NY

Pro-abortion Governor George Pataki and New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who also supports unrestricted abortion, are co-chairs of the 2000 Choice Award Presentation to be held on May 30 at the St. Regis Hotel in New York City. The event is sponsored by the Republican Pro-Choice Coalition, a group that is campaigning for the removal of the pro-life plank from the Republican National Platform.


http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock200503010743.asp

[Alberta's Child]

I'm as strong an opponent of Rudy Giuliani as anyone else, but this moron Alter has less credibility than a bag of rocks.

[Hildy]

This is great...THE FAR LEFT AND THE FAR RIGHT ATTACKING Guiliani! He will get EVERYONE in between now!

[SmithL]

ALTERed reality alert!

[word_warrior_bob]

I know people who are and have been very close to Rudy for a long time, he's basically a good guy, there's nothing wrong with him except for the policy positions that we don't agree on.

[RedRover]

LOL! EXACTLY!

[narses]

Giuliani/Clinton/Dem vs. GOP Platform Comparison
Issue	Giuliani	Clinton	Dem Platform	GOP Platform
Abortion on Demand	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Partial Birth Abortion	Supports Opposed NY ban	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Roe v. Wade	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Taxpayer Funded Abortions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Embryonic Stem Cell Research	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Federal Marriage Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Defined at state level	Supports
Gay Domestic Partnership/ Civil Unions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Openly Gay Military	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Defense of Marriage Act	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Amnesty for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Special Path to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Tough Penalties for Employers of Illegal Aliens	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Sanctuary Cities/ Ignoring Immigration Law	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Protecting 2nd Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Supports bans	Supports
Confiscating Guns	Supports Confiscated as mayor. Even bragged.	Supports	Supports Supports bans	Opposes
'Assault' Weapons Ban	Supports	Supports	Supports
Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers	Supports Filed One Himself	Supports		Opposes
Gun Registration/Licenses	Supports	Supports		Opposes
War in Afghanistan	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports	Supports
War in Iraq	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports Weak support	Supports
Patriot Act	Supports	Supports Voted for it 2001 & 2006	Opposes	Supports

"Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine." - Rudy Giuliani

Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it.
Rudy Giuliani

[RedRover]

Any resident of NYC during the Guiliani years will tell you that Rudy was Hitler in the eyes of the Left before President Bush was Hitler. This guy Alter was undoubtedly one of the Guiliani- is-a-fascist crowd.

[A Longer Name]

Some people here call him Giussolini. I wonder if these are DU trolls.

[Admin Moderator]

Knock off the spamming.
Thanks.

[DouglasKC]

Giuliani said he opposes a ban on partial birth abortion unless there's an exception for the life of the mother. Is he lying or should partial birth abortion be banned even if the mother's life is in danger?

[MikeA]

Oh what a surprise, the Democratic sock puppet Jonathan Alter is already spewing against the GOP frontrunner. What a good little Democratic wind up toy he is. This zombie is more predictable than the sunrise.

Hey Jonathan, did Rudy ever throw a lamp at his spouse or call a campaign worker and "f-ing Jew bastard" like Hillary did? Did he ever say a campaign worker was greedy because he was Jewish? Did he ever terrorize the entire staff at Gracey Mansion? Did he run operations to trash anyone's reputation who accused his spouse of cheating on him and other wrongdoing No? Oh, well then sounds like your piece and its title might be more appropriately applied to Hillary Clinton who did do those things as First Lady of Arkansas AND of the White House?

[trumandogz]

When I read "Rudy’s Dark Side" I thought they found more pictures of the former mayor in Drag.

[RedRover]

I expect so! (And at the moment, I'd guess we have 'em coming out of the woodwork!)

[Howlin]

LOL!

[narses]

MD's will tell you that there is never A MEDICAL NEED for a PBA. NEVER.

[Antoninus]

Rudy sux. He's a 35% of the vote candidate in a national election because the Democrats will never vote for him and will slander him night and day. Meanwhile, the conservaties know he's a liberal and will never support him.

All that will be left to him are the "politics over principles" Republican party animals--and there aren't that many of those.

He'd be an absolute catastrophe as the GOP nominee and we all need to work hard to make sure that doesn't happen.

[billbears]

this moron Alter has less credibility than a bag of rocks.

Well that is the prerequisite for political office these days it seems. Maybe he should run instead of Giuliani.

I don't care for Giuliani and I think the author is reaching. But I don't care for any of the rest really. The only one that has expressed interest and apparently knows what the Constitution says is Ron Paul. And since he's an outside shot at best, does it really matter which one of these hacks actually is elected? Looks like I may go fishing Election Day again.

[Antoninus]

He will get EVERYONE in between now!

Yeah, all 35% of you. Good luck winning an election with that.

[TheMole]

I recall going over to Gracie Mansion in this period to interview the mayor. I asked him why he had not even spoken to C. Virginia Fields, the Manhattan borough president, for more than two years. (Fields’s experience was hardly unique among elected officials in New York.). “What’s there to talk about?” Giuliani said petulantly.

Ooooh that is so very very bad.

[Antoninus]

I know people who are and have been very close to Rudy for a long time, he's basically a good guy, there's nothing wrong with him except for the policy positions that we don't agree on.

There's nothing wrong with him ... except the fact that he's a liberal. The only difference between him and Ed Rendell is the little "R" after his name.

[Clemenza]

I got news for you: it was LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC VOTERS who voted for Rudy in the first place!

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

The Left is trowing out the racist "J-accuse" pretty early.

Looks like Socialist Borg Central Command needs to send an implant recalibration pulse to its legions, lest idiots like Alter run amok too early in the 2008 campaign.

[somemoreequalthanothers]

Knock off the spamming. Thanks.

Thank you. It's getting old.

[Minutemen]

Nothing personal but it is not the left that is going bash Rudy. It will be the real conservatives that he has to answer to.

[Hildy]

I'll make you the same offer I've made for the last 24 hours...put your money where your mouth is...make a bet with me, right now... It's so funny...you all are so sure Rudy won't win...but you won't even five bucks on it! It's a hoot!

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

Given the choice between McCain and Giuliani, I would vote for (choke) McCain.

[derllak]

I like Rudy personality wise. As for being presidential material, that remains to be seen.

[Antoninus]

I'll make you the same offer I've made for the last 24 hours...put your money where your mouth is...make a bet with me, right now... It's so funny...you all are so sure Rudy won't win...but you won't even five bucks on it! It's a hoot!

Yawn. What are we in 3rd grade?

I'll put my money where my mouth is by sending more of it to Duncan Hunter. If you want to send more of your cash down the Rudy rat-hole, be my guest.

[Hildy]

COWARD...and a humorless coward to boot.

[nopardons]

That's very true, but something which has obviously completely escaped the SPAM crowd.

[nopardons]

Alter is a jerk and always has been. His Clinton kneepads extend from ankle to armpit...or higher.

[nopardons]

In a marvelous way; IF one actually KNOWS who Fileds is!

[zarf]

RUdy will split both parties. What a hoot.

[familyop]

It's difficult to remember the spelling of the names of some liberal/leftist politicians pushed into our discussions by closet Democrats. Is it Caligulani or Giussolini?

[Hildy]

Rudy is going to win. And you are going to end up voting for him. Because when it comes down to it, you love this country and you'll do the best thing for it which is to make sure Hillary/Obama does not get into the White House. And yes, you'll rationalize it. You'll say, who would I rather have appointing Supreme Court Judges? And you'll know there's only one answer.

[Redbob]

"Temperametnally unsuited?"

How about "morally unsuited?"

Bill Clinton would still not have been a swell guy if he'd been a Pubbie, and Rudy certainly seems cut from the same cloth, libido-wise.

Would he behave any differently in the White House?
Not a chance!

[Peach]

Does anybody really listen to Jonathan Alter?

Rudy has a strong 84% conservative approval rating. (Battle ground poll as of Jan.11, '07)



The rebirth of New York City, the most visible urban achievement in the 20th century is the work of the person now dubbed America’s mayor. For the millions of Americans who live in New York and the millions more who work or whose livelihood has been affected by its revival the contrast between the pre and post Giuliani years could not be more striking.

His defense of Israel and intolerance for Arab and U.N. sponsored anti-Semitism is legendary.

He figuratively walked into the lion's den of a crime ridden, high tax, and decaying city and carried out a conservative agenda of tax cuts, crime reduction and, in the case of the Brooklyn Museum, defense of religion in the public square. On this count Giuliani seems to be the winner in the public character category for his extraordinary vision and leadership.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1780064/posts



Indeed, in one recent poll, majorities of Republicans who were informed of Giuliani’s views on social issues said that they were either minor issues or no issues at all; only 16% said that they wouldn't vote for him after being informed of these views.

In the online GOP Bloggers poll, Giuliani is consistently one of the few candidates to end up with a net positive acceptability rating. These internet denizens are well-informed, and overwhelmingly self-describe as conservative (78% self-describe as 7 or higher on a 10-scale of conservatism). If these people can support Rudy, anyone can.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/



In fact, an exit poll question from Pew in 2004 revealed that only 3% of voters named abortion as their top voting issue, 2% named religiosity, and 2% named gay marriage.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1780060/posts



Even Reagan couldn't live up to Reagan in today's climate.

He was a great president, but he wasn't perfect.

He was divorced, married a pregnant Nancy, and signed the most liberal abortion legislation at the time when he was Governor of California. As president he gave us two lousy Supreme Court judges, signed amnesty legislation, raised taxes 4 times and after the presidency he actively pushed for federal gun legislation (the Brady Bill).





Rudy also kicked Arafat out of a concert hall. This was back when it wasn't fashionable and Clinton was hosting the terrorist in the White House as his most frequent guest.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19980




Ultra social conservative Pat Robertson thinks Rudy would make a good president.

Asked if Giuliani would be an acceptable 2008 presidential candidate to Christian conservatives, Pat Robertson told ABC's "This Week:" "He did a super job running the city of New York and I think he'd make a good president."

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/5/1/102522.shtml



The SayNoToRudy web site changed their minds about him and now supports him.
http://saynotorudy.org/



Ronald Reagan on compromise:
When I began entering into the give and take of legislative bargaining in Sacramento, a lot of the most radical conservatives who had supported me during the election didn't like it. "Compromise" was a dirty word to them and they wouldn't face the fact that we couldn't get all of what we wanted today. They wanted all or nothing and they wanted it all at once. If you don't get it all, some said, don't take anything.

I'd learned while negotiating union contracts that you seldom got everything you asked for. And I agreed with FDR, who said in 1933: 'I have no expectations of making a hit every time I come to bat. What I seek is the highest possible batting average.'

If you got seventy-five or eighty percent of what you were asking for, I say, you take it and fight for the rest later, and that's what I told these radical conservatives who never got used to it.

~~ Ronald Reagan, in his autobiography, An American Life .



The Hoover Institute, at which Reagan is an Honorary Fellow, thinks Rudy has been good for the GOP.

Working on a book about the Republican Party, last year Hoover fellow Peter Robinson spent some time with Rudolph Giuliani. Although Giuliani is no longer running for the Senate, Robinson argues that Giuliani’s accomplishments as mayor of New York City set an example for Republican candidates just the same. A portrait of a brilliant politician—and a great public servant.
http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3491481.html



At the Reagan Library Gift Shop, all but 3 of the books sold under the "Ronald Reagan Book" section are about Reagan himself or presidential modes of transportation.

Rudy Giuliani's book Leadership is one of those 3 books.

The other 2 are written by Reagan's son and McCaslin.



Rudy's excellent speech at the 2004 GOP Convention:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/mmedia/politics/083004-15v.htm



As George Will said on “This Week,” “His eight years as mayor of New York were the most successful episode of conservative governance in this country in the last 50 years, on welfare and crime particularly." Giuliani, more than any other candidate (Romney comes the closest) has the record of taking on major institutions and reforming them. Think about tourist magnet that is New York now. When Rudy Giuliani took office, 59% of New Yorkers said they would leave the city the next day if they could. Under Rudy Giuliani’s leadership as Mayor of the nation’s largest city, murders were cut from 1,946 in 1993 to 649 in 2001, while overall crime – including rapes, assaults, burglary and auto-thefts – fell by an average of 57%. Not only did he fight crime in Gotham like Batman, despite being constantly vilified by the New York Times, he took head on the multiculturalism and victimization perpetuated by Al Sharpton and his cohort of race baiters. He ended New York’s set-aside program for minority contractors and rejected the idea of lowering standards for minorities. As far as the economy goes, Rudy reduced or eliminated 23 city taxes. He faced a $2.3 billion budget deficit but cut spending instead hiking taxes.

http://www.redstate.com/blogs/dmeaton/2007/feb/04/achieving_socially_conservative_ideals_through_liberal_means_making_the_case_for_rudy




I believe that life is sacred and should not be treated as a commodity. I believe that the institution of marriage needs to be preserved. For now at least, good judges are best way to protect the institution of marriage and move America closer to the day when a debate on the local level can begin again about the value of human life. In order for us to have this debate in state legislatures we must win the next fight over the next Supreme Court vacancy, and if we lose the next presidential election than we will have taken a major step backwards in our quest to replace the current liberal ideology on the highest bench. More than any potential Republican president, Rudy Giuliani will have the easiest time getting strict constructionists confirmed to the Supreme Court and the lower courts.

Think of four scenarios: 1) A Hillary appointment 2) A court battle in which a thinly elected Republican administration that is led by someone who is avidly pro-life faces down a probably Democratic controlled Senate 3) A court battle in which the overwhelmingly elected Republican administration is led by the Bull Moose lover himself, Mr. McCain 4) A court battle in which pro-choice Giuliani, elected and respected by a huge majority of Americans, makes the argument that strict constructionist jurisprudence is needed in the 21st century. He did after all strongly support Justice Roberts, Justice Alito, and he said that he would have made Justice Scalia Chief Justice. As important, Giuliani can actually make a personal case for a specific legal doctrine. The mayor is a former high ranking Justice department attorney who has argued before the Supreme Court.

To reclaim the Senate and Congress, to hold onto the White House, to build a sustainable Republican majority, and to advance conservative principles, we Republicans must unite together and support a candidate who can win the hearts of the vast majority of Americans.

Only when we win hearts can we then win minds.

http://www.redstate.com/blogs/dmeaton/2007/feb/04/achieving_socially_conservative_ideals_through_liberal_means_making_the_case_for_rudy

[backtothestreets]

Among the human characteristics I value most is loyalty. I greatly appreciated the way Rudy Giuliani took to the streets on 9-11 to organize rescue efforts. Still, I can never overlook the betrayal of loyalty he showed his wife and children while having an extramarital affair. Anyone that can be disloyal to his family and his own vows, can be disloyal to an elected office.

[Redbob]

"...he's basically a good guy..."

I'd be willing to bet he's got an ex-wife or two who'd debate that point with you...

Not that he's any better in this regard than a certain salamander-named Southerner...

The way a man behaves in private is a sure sign of his character.

[ElPatriota]

The KEY WORD in Guliani's campaign is SEMANTICALLY = BS!... otherwise known as "bait & Swith" (or the reverse, whatever! :) you get my point). It means they can move the little "ball" around and confuse you... So KEEP YOUR EYES ON BALL... Or should I say on the "BULL S...?" lol.

THOSE EXPENSIVE CONSULTANTS ARE DOING THEIR WORK RIGHT NOW. Let's see if the succeed... After all we Red Staters(?) are supposed to be stupid remember? :)

... What about a climate where same-sex couples are given the same legal status as married couples, whether the resulting arrangements are candidly called “same-sex marriages,” or are **semantically** papered-over with terms such as “civil unions” or “domestic partnerships”?.

---

National Review Article By Terence P. Jeffrey

[Redbob]

"He'd be an absolute catastrophe as the GOP nominee and we all need to work hard to make sure that doesn't happen."

Amen!

[Redbob]

"Rudy is going to win. And you are going to end up voting for him."

Like Hell I will!

Some of us vote for the 'Pubbie, some of us vote on principle.

When Rudy has crawled back into his hole, we'll still have our principles, and you'll have... nothing.

[tkathy]

Rudy's a leader, something the left is terrified of. Also, Rudy's tougher and smarter than all the dim candidates put together.

[freedomdefender]

Among the human characteristics I value most is loyalty.

Yeah, ain't it great the way Rudy supported Cuomo for governor of New York over the Republican candidate. That's loyalty to the party - the Democrat party!

[TheBattman]

Rudy has made some pretty conflicting statements on his positions that I think will haunt him from all sides. Here are just a couple that I have heard about in no particular order:

1. Pro-Gay rights/ Against Gay Marriage/Civil Unions. He has made both statements - so what is his REAL stand (if any)?

2. Against Partial-Birth abortion infanticide/ yet he is Pro-choice murder. Again - which is it?

3. Not a supporter of Gays, and his reason for being in the Gay celebration parade - he says he never turned down any parade he was invited to be in...

4. Says he is a "supporter of the 2nd Amendment" and also that he believes citizens should be able to own and carry handguns - yet he presided over a city with some of the most restrictive anti-gun and anti-2nd amendment restrictions in the country. His excuse - he had to do something about the murder rate...and he has claimed responsibility for dropping the murder rate in NYC from over 2K murders to just over 600 murders per year (lowest since 1963).

What he failed to point out - the reduction in murders/crime might have had more to do with the fact that they simply made a better effort at locking up criminals...duh.

One area that Rudy at least appears to be strong on is the WOT - but as he was the mayor of NYC on 9-11, I would expect nothing less - he experienced what we are trying to prevent.

But what about immigration - he says he agrees with the administration's immigration policy, including some sort of amnesty.

So - if this clear-as-mud candidate is what we want...have at it...

[Hildy]

we'll still have our principles, and you'll have... nothing.

Actually, we'll have the White House.

[narses]

Good summation. Stand ready to be attacked.

[narses]

That's loyalty to the party - the Democrat party!

Rino Rudy Rides again!