Achieving Socially Conservative Ideals Through Liberal Means: Making The Case for Rudy (2008)

Red State ^ | February 4, 2007 | D.M. Eaton

[Clintonfatigued]

For this reason, contrary to conventional wisdom, a victory by Rudy Giuliani would strengthen even the socially conservative agenda in the long run. As the new Fox Dynamics Poll shows, 65 percent of Americans would be “comfortable” with a Rudy Giuliani administration. Being comfortable is a major step in the right direction. Americans might actually listen to him when gives the State of the Union (without a teleprompter no less, as he usually speaks with note cards or does so extemporaneously). A Giuliani administration that would focus on fighting the Islamic Extremists, reducing the size and scope of government, handling crisis, and putting strict constructionists on the bench who will interpret the law properly will draw more support from more people in the short term. This will translate to more understanding of conservative policies on other matters because individuals will have more patience to read the conservative ramblings of columnists and pundits. In the long run, as a result this will turn into more votes. As Winston Churchill is often quoted, "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain"...

Due to the challenges facing this country, this election cycle we Republicans need to nominate someone with an actual record of accomplishment of tackling seemingly intractable problems. As George Will said on “This Week,” “His eight years as mayor of New York were the most successful episode of conservative governance in this country in the last 50 years, on welfare and crime particularly." Giuliani, more than any other candidate (Romney comes the closest) has the record of taking on major institutions and reforming them.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Bring on the Rudy in drag pics! (Waves fistful of singles)

[Rawlings]

"Though wrong, voters in general see the fight to protect marriage and value the sanctity of life as an “unnecessary government intrusion” into their lives (remember the response to Terri Schiavo). Voters in 2008 will be much more interested in being gay (i.e. happy) than with the problem of gays wanting to enjoy all the rights and privileges that heterosexuals do."

I don't think this is true. The worst and most fallacious assumption the GOP could make is that the American people have moved away from a values-based agenda. The truth, as shown through many, many ballot initiatives in 2006, is that if anything voters have moved RIGHT socially. Faith and family seem to be more germaine than ever for the party. As an evangelical and social conservative I'd vote and support Rudy. But he's certainly not my first choice. I'm a Romney guy.

Traditional values absolutely matter in America. Any assumption to the contrary is beltway delusion.

[Clintonfatigued]

This is an interesting argument, and there is some logic to it. While I'm not advocating voting for Guiliani (I'm undecided), I do think that conservatives who rule out voting for him without much reflection and study of his accomplishments are short-sighted.

[Luke21]

Using the logic of this thing, I should vote Democrat and get lots of conservatism. Good grief. War is peace. Bad is good.

[Clintonfatigued]

LMAO!! Good one.

Guiliani has a goofy sense of humor, and some traditional types dislike zaniness.

[Hydroshock]

Voting for Rino Rudy, a liberal, to advance conservative values is like having sexual intercourse for virginity.

[Clintonfatigued]

LMAO!! Good one.

Guiliani has a goofy sense of humor, and some traditional types dislike over-the-top slapstick. It was a meant to be funny and, in retrospect, a mistake.

[Sun]

Sometimes George Will has it right, and sometimes he has it wrong. THIS TIME he has it wrong.

We can find a CONSERVATIVE candidate who can do anything that Rudy can do, and better.

Rudy is weak on borders; so therefore, would be weak on fighting terrorism.

[BunnySlippers]

((((( PING PING PING )))))


Rudy Ping List
Let me know if you want on or off

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

Sort of risky.....






(though the logic is there).

[Afronaut]

Who made the Trains run on time in Italy?

[Vaquero]

Using the logic of this thing, I should vote Democrat and get lots of conservatism. Good grief. War is peace. Bad is good.

Me vote for liberal...get conservative...me think this through good

[Clintonfatigued]

That was very unfair. Not a valid comparison at all.

[Peach]

As George Will said on “This Week,” “His eight years as mayor of New York were the most successful episode of conservative governance in this country in the last 50 years, on welfare and crime particularly." Giuliani, more than any other candidate (Romney comes the closest) has the record of taking on major institutions and reforming them.

How could George Will say that? The purists are telling us Rudy isn't conservative at all. LOL

Thanks for the ping. Loved the article.

[sageb1]

Eaton argues his case very well.

[ken5050]

Rudy/Newt2008!!!!!

[Blackirish]

Great article.

Unfortunatly it's logic will be wasted on the single issue voters.

[Clintonfatigued]

"Eaton argues his case very well."

I think so. If you look at what Guiliani has accomplished, not only as Mayor, but also as U.S. Attorney for New York and in the U.S. Justice Department, it's hard not to wonder if he could accomplish what seems impossible in D.C.

[Jack Black]

George Will has a typical east coast perspective. To say that fixing New York was the most successful conservative moment in America in the last 50 years is probably true, if you live on 2nd Avenue.

The rest of us might put winning the Cold War, appointing two solid conserative justices, returning America to prosperity and away from 'malise', or even small things like the widespread adoption of right to carry laws (still not happening in NYC) well above helping liberal New Yorkers not suffer too much from the consequences of their own actions.

[BunnySlippers]

I've often thought that would be an awesome ticket!

[Blackirish]

How could George Will say that? The purists are telling us Rudy isn't conservative at all. LOL

---

Many on this forum don't think George Will is a conservative. It' doubtful that Will is a gun enthusiast ...or is a litmus tester...so even though he has been a leading intellectual conservative commentator for decades....here many consider him a RINO

[neverdem]

bfl

[PhiKapMom]

Bump to that -- see my tagline!

How long before we are told we are not Republicans again because we support Rudy?

[Peach]

That's right - I keep forgetting. There are those pure conservatives who don't think that anyone is a REAL conservative unless they agree with ALL their ideas. Silly me.

[Beagle8U]

"A product of a typical liberal Jewish family, I wanted Al Gore to win in 2000, though John McCain intrigued me at the time."

Soooo, This guy wanted Gore in 2000 but could now settle for Rudy.

Why am I not surprised.

[Irish_Thatcherite]

Bring on the Rudy in drag pics! (Waves fistful of singles)

Achieving traditional gender roles by transvestite means! :-P

[Hildy]

You're wrong...wrong...wrong....when was the last time a Republican was nationally elected becaue of his social conservative views? Go look at the Contract with America...those were not social issues they were addressing. Wake up to the fact people care more about the big picture (our nation's security, both militarily and fiscally) than the smaller social issues. You can vote for whomever you please...but at least know you're doing it for yourself, not for the good of the Country.

[freespirited]

I like Mitt too. But I am concerned that his chances of defeating Hillary are not good.

[flashbunny]

Yep, somehow it will all end up conservative in the end!

[tiger-one]

Let's have new face, new idea's and "balls".
Go Duncan Hunter

[sageb1]

I don't read George Will too much anymore. He's become pretty wishy-washy. My comment had more to do with the author of the article, who writes fairly weel and who made valid points. If you lived where I live, a more conservative 2nd Ave. sounds good. We're sick of city people buying land up here and telling the rest of us how to live our lives.

[freedomfiter2]

Unfortunatly it's logic will be wasted on the single issue voters.


Yeah, the WOT crowd is a lost cause.

[KDD]

We need to throw a monkey wrench into the entrenched status quo.

Elect Ron Paul.

[ken5050]

I'm not a "Republican"..I'm an American first, and this country, in this time of peril, simply cannot afford to elect a Democrat in 2008.

[tkathy]

Hits the nail on the tail!!! Er, I mean head....

[ellery]

I like Rudy, and I'm not concerned about his stances on social issues (since I believe social issues shouldn't be dealt with on a federal level, anyway). Here's my concern:

1. Rudy is an extremely effective leader able to get things done and tends toward action rather than mere empty rhetoric.

2. Philosophically, Rudy is a gun-grabber.

Ergo, Rudy is likely to "accomplish" gun-grabbing goals, rather than just talk about them. I am not at all a single-issue voter, but I draw the line at voting for people who support openly anti-Constitutional measures.

[x]

Once immersed among conservatives I started to appreciate their logic on several subjects. I agreed with the Bush Doctrine immediately following September 11 but still clung to liberal social principles. Nevertheless, by listening to Conservatives more and reading more of the literature slowly over time I became a true believer. So I speak with experience when I say that converts to conservative ideology will come around surely (albeit slowly) if they are approached indirectly. If their beliefs structures are attacked head on they will most likely recoil and defend themselves like snakes. As Alexander Hamilton wrote in the Federalist papers, “Men often oppose a thing, merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.”

For this reason, contrary to conventional wisdom, a victory by Rudy Giuliani would strengthen even the socially conservative agenda in the long run.

Perhaps a more likely result would be to take the volume of the discussion down a few decibels. If a New York Republican wins and makes a nod in the direction of social conservatism, a lot of the noise from Northeasterners about Texas or Alabama and from Southerners about New York or Massachusetts dies out.

As to what the long-term effects would be, I can't begin to say. I doubt you'll see a final resolution of these culture wars either way. The drift on some questions is to the right (abortion), and on others (homosexuality, stem cells) to the left.

A bad President or candidate could lose things for his or her side, but there are limits to what a good one can do and how far a President can go even if he's committed to a cause. The question about Rudy is whether he'd been one step back and two steps forward for social conservatives or two steps back and one step forward.

[TitansAFC]

Believe me,

George "the Christians are what's wrong with America" Will and the Rockefeller types who want a second Libertarian Party are drooling over the idea of Rudy winning the Presidency.

This is a Civil War right now between a very, very, very loud and persistent minority of Liberal GOP types who only want fiscal and defense/crime issues to ever be of any concern in any campaign for the rest of eternity, and the SoCon/Gun Conservatives who want candidates who'll represent SoCon/Gun issues as well as fiscal/defense/crime issues.

Make no mistake, these are the folks who want all of America to mirror NY City. They just think that they can get all of the Liberals on board and have a big-tent, one-party system if they dump anyone who cares about anything other than taxes, crime, and defense.

It is a big fight right now between the Rudy backers, who selfishly want ONLY their issues represented in the campaign, and the SoCon/Gun Conservatives who want all of the issues represented.

I will not sell my soul to win one election.

I have been an admirer of Rudy for some time, doing what could be done by a Republican in NY, and I have a lot of respect for the guy. I have always been opposed to his Presidential candidacy, though open to having him as the Veep on the ticket. But the threat his candidacy poses to the issues I care about is huge, and the persistence of the loud few is beginning to make me believe there are greater enemies in our own Party than I ever thought. The Rockefeller/Liberal GOP types like DeRoy Murdoch and George Will are constantly on their Presidential kneepads for Rudy. and they don't care - they just DON'T CARE - if anyone has objections. To hell with them - it's Rudy or nothing!

I am writing some letters to the Family Research Council and a couple of other organizations about the need for them to start following through with their promises to take Rudy down by spreading awareness that he's running under the wrong Party for a PRESIDENTIAL race. I'm going to see if they need any help spreading literature, or working phone banks, or if they need help in any particular state in the coming months. Enough is enough. We have an enemy of many of our causes trying to hijack the party, and he must be defeated with all of our efforts.

I haven't read so much b*llsh*t since the Democrats started trying the same thing in a different form "reasonable gun laws," "safe, legal, and rare," etc. etc. etc. etc. Same damn stuff - Oh, we promise, Rudy won't really be Rudy as President! You have nothing to fear - forget his history, it's all circumstantial! We who want your issues dumped two years before the election - we'll help you promote them after we win! Trust us!

Rudy will sign more gun restriction into law - anyone telling you otherwise is a liar.

Rudy will reverse the Mexico City law, and will greatly liberalize the abortion laws in this country with every executive power available to him - anyone telling you otherwise is a liar. Embryonic Stem Cells, Partial-Birth Abortion, you name it.

Rudy will be a critical impediment for the Pro-Defense-of-Marriage movement, at a time when we desperately need a consistent champion for the cause in the White House. Anyone telling you otherwise is a liar.

Rudy will not appoint a single judge who he fears might overturn law he holds sacrosanct - like Roe v. Wade - anyone telling you otherwise is a liar. He has called it "good law" and has called himself a "Champion of Choice." You are a blithering IDIOT if you think there's any chance Rudy Giuliani would ever, under ANY circumstance, appoint the fifth Justice to overturn Roe V. Wade. This is so elementary I cannot believe ANYONE is so idiotic as to think otherwise.

Rudy is wrong on Hate Crimes Legislation, Immigration, Guns, Abortion, Partial-Birth Abortion, Public Funding of Abortion, Gay Rights, I mean this list goes on and on.

We can have a candidate who has been a self-profeesed champion of the WRONG side of a litany of the issues we hold dear, or we can have one of a series of candidates who will fight for the causes we believe in - not one or two or three of them - but nearly all of them.

It is time to start calling a duck a duck. Rudy Giuliani is a threat to the SocCon/Gun Conservative movement, and has been an activist, avowed enemy of many of the SoCon and Gun Conservative issues many of us hold dear. To expect him to act as ANYTHING other than that is foolishness or deceit of the highest degree.

This is the first time in my lifetime I have ever had a GOP candidate who threatens me more than the Democrat candidate.

Hey. Here's an idea! Let's try to achieve some fiscally Conservative ideas by tripling the government budget and raising taxes. I mean, think about it - we could triple the defense budget, and add three times the police on the streets! What could be more Conservative? George Will is right - we need to elect a Liberal who'll do this!

[PhiKapMom]

Read the link! This is what we are dealing with:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1778852/posts?page=659#659

Next some folks will take after you for that statement.

[LibertarianInExile]

Rudy couldn't keep his promises to his wife, promises he made before God and a woman he presumably knew well and loved at the time he said "I do." But he'll keep his promises to and deliver for social conservatives, I'm sure.

/biting sarcasm

[jageorge72]

Newt YES, Rudy NO. Voting for Rudy is not a whole lot better than voting for a Democrat.

Newt Gingrich, on the other hand, is the complete package. To be honest, I think he's unbeatable. The guy is brilliant. You name the subject.... terrorism, healthcare, borders, taxes, education, etc...... and he has a solution. I've never been excited about a potential candidate like I am about Newt. The thought of him in a debate with Hillary or Edwards, just makes me smile.

For the many Newt-doubters here..... please go to his site and sign up for his "Winning the Future" weekly newsletter, and read what he has to say each week. There is a reason he's polling so high, even though he hasn't announced he's running.

[T.L.Sink]

I don't know if you saw it but I posted an article titled "Yes, Rudy Giuliani Is a Conservative" on 1/30. Although I support Tancredo, this article reveals how Giuliani is conservative on many issues. He's been unfairly stereotyped by many conservatives who aren't familiar with his record in NYC. It also shows how tough and courageous he is in the very worst possible situations - physically and politically.

[freedomfiter2]

Rudy is wrong on Hate Crimes Legislation, Immigration, Guns, Abortion, Partial-Birth Abortion, Public Funding of Abortion, Gay Rights, I mean this list goes on and on.


Here we go again. Another single issue guy. /s

[EternalVigilance]

While he (Giuliani) was the “Republican Mayor” of New York City he appointed more than 60 men and women to the Civil, Criminal, and Family Court benchs. In all of those judicial appointment not one of them was a Republican.

[CobaltBlue]

I'm voting for Rudy, warts and all.

No other Republican has as high a positive rating in election polls.

If the Republican party loses the Presidental election, the Democrats will control Congress and the Presidency.

If you want that to happen, you're an idiot.

[EternalVigilance]

When Congress enacted immigration reform laws that forbade local governments from barring employees from cooperating with the INS, Mayor Rudy Giuliani filed suit against the feds in 1997. He was rebuffed by two lower courts, which ruled that the sanctuary order amounted to special treatment for illegal aliens and were nothing more than an unlawful effort to flaunt federal enforcement efforts against illegal aliens. In January 2000, the Supreme Court rejected his appeal, but Giuliani vowed to ignore the law.

[EternalVigilance]

If the Republican party loses the Presidental election, the Democrats will control Congress and the Presidency.

If the Republican Party has become merely a weak copy of the Democrat Party, what the heck does it matter?

[CobaltBlue]

If the Republican Party has become merely a weak copy of the Democrat Party, what the heck does it matter?

Abortion and homosexuality are not federal issues. The Founders would have an hysterical laughing fit if you told them that in the 21st century, the federal government got involved in bedroom politics.

Then they'd weep at the thought of the loss of the Republic.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

"A product of a typical liberal Jewish family, I wanted Al Gore to win in 2000, though John McCain intrigued me at the time."

Soooo, This guy wanted Gore in 2000 but could now settle for Rudy.

Typical media liar just like George Will...

Open borders George Will gets his paycheck from the Leftist media establishment.