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UN braced for clash with Russia on Kosovo (Russia defending Christians, US defending...UN?)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2560496,00.html ^

Posted on 01/29/2007 4:19:30 PM PST by kronos77

“The independence of Kosovo is a reality, so we demand recognition of Kosovo’s international subjectivity without any delays,” said Agim Ceku, its Prime Minister.

The main parties in the elections are opposed to independence for Kosovo, regarded as the cradle of Serb history and culture. Russia, Serbia’s traditional Orthodox Christian ally, has made it clear that it would not support any plan for Kosovo that went against Belgrade’s wishes.

“Russia believes it is unacceptable that a decision on the status of Kosovo be imposed from the outside,” said President Putin on Sunday.

As a permanent member of the UN Security Council, Russia could block recognition of Kosovo’s independence.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: allybetrayed; antichristian; balkans; clintonlegacy; geopolitics; hoopielite; ihoppy; kosovo; pancakeboy; russia; serbia; toothlessdhimmi; un; wrongplace; wrongside; wrongtime; wrongwar
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1 posted on 01/29/2007 4:19:34 PM PST by kronos77
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To: joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ma bell; ...

who is who in this one?


2 posted on 01/29/2007 4:20:06 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: kronos77
Go on and run to the Russian's warm, enveloping embrace.

You deserve each other.

3 posted on 01/29/2007 4:21:44 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: kronos77

Carter gave Iran to terrorists, Clinton gave them the Balkans.

The gifts that keep on giving...


4 posted on 01/29/2007 4:21:53 PM PST by BigBobber
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To: Hoplite

Maybe.
But we certanly dont deserve this.


5 posted on 01/29/2007 4:22:39 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: kronos77
But we certanly dont deserve this.

You're right.

And you can consider yourselves truly lucky you're not getting what you deserve.

6 posted on 01/29/2007 4:25:23 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: kronos77

"who is who in this one?"

We're the US. Who are you?


7 posted on 01/29/2007 4:27:18 PM PST by Blackyce (President Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure.")
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To: Blackyce

just a rethoric question...
Im Scorpio. Im Ironic.


8 posted on 01/29/2007 4:32:06 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: BigBobber
"Carter gave Iran to terrorists, Clinton gave them the Balkans.

The gifts that keep on giving..."

Well stated and FDR gave Russia 100 million Eastern European to kill, rob and enslave.
9 posted on 01/29/2007 4:51:49 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ("Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto")
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To: kronos77

US is defending satan and the new world order.


10 posted on 01/29/2007 4:55:17 PM PST by winodog
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To: Hoplite

And you deserve the warm, enveloping embrace the jihadists will be giving you..."...From below, and above!!!"


11 posted on 01/29/2007 5:22:01 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Hoplite

You, however, deserve those kneepads!


12 posted on 01/29/2007 5:23:06 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: BigBobber

Carter should be tried for treason. If we are to blame any president for 9/11, I think it should be Jimmy.


13 posted on 01/29/2007 5:23:58 PM PST by M1thumb
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To: kronos77

BETRAYAL OF THE SERBS
is a blot on America's political landscape




THE ORLANDO SENTINEL,
Thursday, August 6, 1998, METRO
Editorial, Page A14
By Charley Reese of The Sentinel Staff





For fair use only
Published under the provision of
U.S. Code, Title 17, section 107.

DURING THE WAR [WW2] SOME *600* [SIX HUNDRED!] AMERICANS WERE RESCUED BY [Serbian Royalists] THE CHETNIKS AT GREAT PERSONAL RISK. "Our guides told us in all sincerity," said one of the [rescued] fliers, that the GERMANS EXECUTED FIVE OF THEIR PEOPLE FOR FAILURE TO DISCLOSE OUR WHEREABOUTS."

The above quote is from:
Time-Life book, the series on World War II, entitled:
"Partisans and Guerrillas",
published in 1978,
page 189

* * *

QUOTE:

Too many Americans suffer from historical Alzheimer's. Like those with the physical disease, they do not know where they are or how they got there or what they are doing.

As a result, they sin grievously.

No sin blots American politics today more than the betrayal of the Serbs. No one ought to be more ashamed of U.S. treatment of the Serbs than American Jews. Yet most Americans, Jew and Gentile alike, duped by the clever public-relations counsels for the former Nazi Balkan allies, have in their ignorance turned against the Serbs who, when it meant life or death, stood by the Jews.

What follows are excerpts from a letter from a Jewish physician published in the book "The Serbs Choose War" by Ruth Mitchell, sister of the famous Gen. Billy Mitchell. Here is what the doctor told his friend:

"No German measures in Belgrade were able to upset the friendly relations between the Serbs and the Jews. During the forced-labor period, Serbs talked to their Jewish friends in the streets even in front of the German soldiers and police. During the period when over 300,000 Serbs were massacred by the Croat Utashi in Bosnia, Herzegovina and Lika and some 60,000 shot by Germans in Serbia, during the period when Serbian students and peasants were hung in the main square in Belgrade, the Serbs of the capital had sufficient courage to protest publicly their indignation at the treatment of the Jews."

Americans blessed by never having lived under military occupation have no idea what magnificent courage that protest took.

"The example of the Serbian people," the Jewish physician wrote, "with regard to the Jewish people is unique in Europe. ... In spite of intensive German propaganda in writing and through the wireless, the Serbs remained unaffected. ... It is my desire as a Jew and as a Serb that in free democratic countries where Jews are still enjoying full where Jews are still enjoying full freedom and equality they should show gratitude to the Serbian people, pointing out their noble acts, their humane feelings, and their high civic consciousness. ... I cannot conclude this report without mentioning how the Serbian Orthodox Church tried to save Serbian Jews and Gypsies. Serbian Orthodox priests and the Serbian peasantry risked their lives to save Serbian Jews and Gypsies."

In the book, Mitchell tells how outraged the Serbs were when the Yugoslav government (a federation of Serbs, Croats and Muslims) signed a pact with the Nazis. Within two days, the Serbs rose up and overthrew it.

"Then an almost incredible thing happened, a thing so important to the history of the world that freedom-loving men will speak of it with admiration and with gratitude down through the centuries. The Serbs rose. A little race of not more than 8 million souls deliberately, sternly decided to die rather than submit to Axis vassalage. They were the only small race of Europe to come in openly on the side of the Allies before they were themselves attacked and while they still had a promise of complete security of frontiers, of lives, and of property; the first and only small race themselves to declare war - a war they knew to be absolutely hopeless - against the invincible German war machine."

Their reward? They were betrayed after the war into the hands of a Croatian communist, Joseph Tito. And today, America arms and supports the Croatians, who have again massacred Serbs. A Croat diplomat, describing the 1940s massacres, wrote of a boat set adrift, crammed with children's heads, of rape and mutilation of Serb women and children, of a vessel holding 31.5 kilograms of Serbian eyes, of wreaths made of Serbian tongues.

And these Croats are the people we help to kill the Serbs who stood with us against the Nazis.

Shame, shame, shame.

(End of quote).

* * *

Copyright 1998 Sentinel Communications Co.


14 posted on 01/29/2007 5:45:09 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf download. Link on my bio page.)
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To: Hoplite; kronos77
Go on and run to the Russian's warm, enveloping embrace.

You deserve each other.

Better than your Islamo-fascist buddies!

15 posted on 01/29/2007 6:07:52 PM PST by F-117A (Mr. Ahtisaari, give Sápmi it's independence! Free the Sami!!!)
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To: F-117A
Better than your Islamo-fascist buddies!

Considering Serbia's choice is between Moscow and Washington/Brussels, who exactly are you referring to as my "Islamo-fascist buddies"?

16 posted on 01/29/2007 6:17:50 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite; F-117A; Bokababe; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ...
...who exactly are you referring to as my "Islamo-fascist buddies?

That would be the Bosnian-supporters of al Qaeda as well as the Albanian-supporters of al Qaeda currently in possesion of the Serbian province of Kosovo.

And any Jihadist that you can kneel before, Dhimmi!

Oh do please let me know if you need any additional clarification, will you?

17 posted on 01/29/2007 7:13:06 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: kronos77

Russia is right on this one. We're on the wrong side here.


18 posted on 01/29/2007 7:21:34 PM PST by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: FormerLib; Hoplite

If Hoplite is talking about Serbia's choices, and you're talking about Bosnian supporters of Al Quaida, don't you think you need a scorecard?


19 posted on 01/29/2007 7:36:59 PM PST by NicknamedBob (Sign says, "No dogs allowed -- except seeing-eye dogs" Why don't they put that sign down lower?)
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To: F-117A

Better than your Islamo-fascist buddies!

They got bombs strapped to their bodies.


20 posted on 01/29/2007 8:00:21 PM PST by Srbija1389
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
>>>>>Well stated and FDR gave Russia 100 million Eastern European to kill, rob and enslave.<<<<<<

It was not FDR. The scourge of Communism was brought to Russia by Wall Street bankers. For a paltry $20M investment, over 10 000 Christian churches were destroyed, hundreds of thousands of Priests murdered. Criminal agents of Paul Warburg and Loeb, Kuhn &Co managed to murder tens of millions of Russians, Ukrainians and others and to ransack Russia.

Go to The National Galery in Washington, D.C. The artistic loot from Russia is still there.

In a sense, you are right about almost 100 000 000 million murdered Eestern Europeans being linked to an American

You only did not give the credit where credit is long due.

21 posted on 01/29/2007 8:20:25 PM PST by DTA (Mr. President, Condy is asleep at the wheel !!!)
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To: DTA

100.000.000? This figure is democRATS myth.

Regards, Semargl.


22 posted on 01/29/2007 8:33:22 PM PST by Semargl
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To: DTA

Yalta agreement signed by FDR, Churchill and Stalin!


23 posted on 01/29/2007 8:49:26 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ("Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto")
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To: FormerLib
I see that the old guy Hoplite is making friends again. Well with those cum-fee kneepads he'll be really popular with the line up.....
24 posted on 01/29/2007 8:55:05 PM PST by Wraith (To have peace prepare for War.)
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To: kronos77

I think Serbs can not to figure on Russia today.

Certainly Russians on former sympathize to Serbs. But Russia is too weak to oppose the West now.

Russia can not go through one war more.

All that we can make it's to give Serbs the moral support and to block the decision of annexation in the UN.

But opinion of the UN means nothing in the unipolar world.


25 posted on 01/29/2007 9:50:14 PM PST by Semargl
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To: kronos77
i have to disagree on this as the US is not serving anyone but the US. Kosovo will be Kosovo as N.Ire will be N.Ire and Gaza will be Gaza etc... Nothing will ever change it to be a hotspot. History has made it to be what it is, always a flashpoint that also brings the people of their own factions and religions together.

Russis will only sellout the Serb nation and strike a deal in its own interest.

That is just history and it won't change. People say it can be changed now, but not at the political/govt institutional level, that will remain the same til a complete overhaul/regime change happens. Again, a few generations need to pass for changes to begin, which I doubt will ever happen.

26 posted on 01/29/2007 10:14:47 PM PST by ma bell ("Take me to Pristine. I want to see the "real terrorists", Former Marine)
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To: winodog

How do we explain this obvious and blinding "bill board", that few is any see taking shape right now. The blinding light, may end up being a very large "cloud"....

Its a comfort to some degree to know there are others that see the same thing..

"Men often stumble on the Truth, but usually dust themselves off & hurry away..." - Winston Churchill


27 posted on 01/30/2007 12:50:38 AM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: DTA

thought that I would bust in and offer a "little" assistance, as if you needed it....:)

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/bolshevik_revolution/index.html


28 posted on 01/30/2007 12:53:45 AM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Hoplite
["And you can consider yourselves truly lucky you're not getting what you deserve."]

And, what it is Hoplite, that we truly deserve (from a psychoanalytic perspective)?

You might want to look at yourself before you respond.
29 posted on 01/30/2007 10:44:30 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
You might want to look at yourself before you respond.

I might instead choose to ignore you as an overeducated chucklehead.

Yeah. I think I'll do that.

30 posted on 01/30/2007 10:48:51 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

Kosovo "independence" just means yet another European war in which NATO shouts at Russia and Russia shouts back at NATO while lots of people in the Balkans get shot.

Historically, this is fairly typical behavior for the Europeans, but this particular juncture would see France attempt to sabotage NATO in favor of the EU Defense Forces, as that would increase France's global standing while getting the U.S. out of many European matters...

...which is precisely why France is calling for the EU arms embargo against China to be lifted next month, as France wants China to serve as an anti-U.S. counter-weight should NATO fracture as Chirac desires.


31 posted on 01/30/2007 10:53:00 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
Kosovo "independence" just means yet another European war in which NATO shouts at Russia and Russia shouts back at NATO while lots of people in the Balkans get shot.

1. The war's already been fought. The Serbs lost.
2. The Russians don't care enough to do anything about it other than posture before selling their erstwhile allies down the river.
3. The French overestimate their influence and capabilities. I see no reason to do the same.

At least that's the way I see things.

32 posted on 01/30/2007 11:12:14 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

The Serbs will fight again for Kosovo.

As for Russia/France and the rest...always a crapshoot with such personalities. Could go any direction.

The better way to look at it is what's in it for the U.S. if Kosovo *does* become independent.

Now compare to our position if Kosovo remains quiet. Judge. Balance. Decide. Act.

Frankly, I see no reason to provoke bloodshed there. What's our gain in such a deal?


33 posted on 01/30/2007 11:26:53 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
The Serbs will fight again for Kosovo.

With what? A bunch of yahoos with AK-47s?

What's our gain in such a deal?

If we're Serbs, nothing.

If we're Americans, on the other hand, putting the present instability in Southern Europe down will allow us to concentrate those diplomatic and military resources presently devoted to that region elsewhere - something we've been looking forward to doing for some time. Hence our referring to the current Kosovo negotiations as the "Final Status".

34 posted on 01/31/2007 12:01:19 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
["overeducated"?]

Well, not really Hoplite...you just don't have the brains (or IQ) to compete with someone like me.

As you might know, we mathematicians (e.g. Gauss, Newton, Pascal, Leibniz, Archimedes) view ourselves as intellectually superior to others. And, deep down, I suspect that you (as well as others) think that what I say is true.

That's enough said.
35 posted on 01/31/2007 3:28:59 AM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: Hoplite
If we're Americans, on the other hand, putting the present instability in Southern Europe down will allow us to concentrate those diplomatic and military resources presently devoted to that region elsewhere

I'm not really sure how the creation of a new Islamic state with unemployment of 70% will improve stability.

36 posted on 01/31/2007 9:47:58 AM PST by Decombobulator
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To: Decombobulator
I'm not really sure how the creation of a new Islamic state with unemployment of 70% will improve stability.

With reasoning like that, thankfully, you don't have to be.

37 posted on 01/31/2007 9:53:56 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: kronos77

Misleading headline. Russia doesn't really care about the Christians. They just want to keep their mitts on Kosovo.


38 posted on 01/31/2007 9:59:56 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Decombobulator

Of course that creation of islamic state will bring stability... Muslim Turks ruled Balkans for 500 years...

1. Create Islamic state
2. Islamic state kills Christians
3. Only Muslims are remained on the face of the Earth.
4. No one left to make troubles for Islam...
5. Islam rules the Earth.
6. therefore, you got stability


39 posted on 01/31/2007 12:18:54 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: Hoplite

I'm confused... Did I say something to offend you?


40 posted on 01/31/2007 2:22:47 PM PST by Decombobulator
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To: Decombobulator
I'm confused... Did I say something to offend you?

No.

But I'd point out that your confusion precedes my response - we're no more going to hand Kosovo back to the Serbs than we are Iraq back to the Ba'athists.

Given that, drawing out the inevitable conclusion serves no useful purpose.

Furthermore, Albania is already a purportedly "Islamist" State with an economy still on the gray side, and how much trouble have we had with them?

Your premises are flawed, and your conclusions suffer as a result.

41 posted on 01/31/2007 2:40:11 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
"If we're Americans, on the other hand, putting the present instability in Southern Europe down will allow us to concentrate those diplomatic and military resources presently devoted to that region elsewhere - something we've been looking forward to doing for some time. Hence our referring to the current Kosovo negotiations as the "Final Status"."

The current instability in Southern Europe is due to the push for Kosovo Independence. Should the push move from words to deed, then a shooting war will erupt.

That would be less stable, not more.

Serbs are as capable of building IEDs as are Iraqis, by the way, a considerable problem for the current "borderless" EU.

If you haven't been to Europe lately, there are no longer border stops between the EU nations, just as there are no border stops driving from California into Nevada.

This situation includes the active ETA Basque separatists in Spain and France...a group that has contracted out their talents in the past. Ditto for November 19 in Greece and the IRA in Ireland.

Greece in particular is sensitive to the Serb cause anyway, much less if France starts bombing Serbia (which is what France wants, as Chirac's plans include breaking up NATO).

42 posted on 01/31/2007 3:03:18 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
The current instability in Southern Europe is due to the push for Kosovo Independence.

If you're worried about the Serbs and their friends, well all I can say at this point is have fun with that. The war over Kosovo has already been fought and decisively lost by Serbia, and regardless of whatever noises come out of Belgrade, they know it.

It'll remain a talking point for the Serbian Radicals until they find something else with which to try and whip their supporters into a frenzy over - my money's on the Vojvodina Hungarians.

43 posted on 01/31/2007 3:27:45 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
"If you're worried about the Serbs and their friends, well all I can say at this point is have fun with that. The war over Kosovo has already been fought and decisively lost by Serbia, and regardless of whatever noises come out of Belgrade, they know it."

Iraq lost a war in 1991 and still manages to make trouble for us today. Germany lost a war in 1918 and managed to make quite a bit of trouble by 1939.

So your logic seems thin when you opine that by losing one war that the Serbs are suddenly harmless playthings who can have cities taken from them at our whim.

Moreover, your reason ("stability") for wanting to further break up Serbia makes little sense.

And none of your arguments offer anything for the U.S.

All that you would accomplish is Chirac's plan to break up NATO by causing grave divisions (e.g. between Greece and France, or between NATO and Russia) over a city that no one wants to so much as vacation in (Kosovo).

That's not good enough.

Right now Chirac is calling for the EU arms embargo against China to be lifted in the next 28 days. The timing is not accidental.

France is manuevering for a global realignment of the major powers. A fractious war over a useless city in the Balkans would only serve to further this Talyrand-itous by straining NATO.

Yet you are cheerleading for this very thing.

44 posted on 01/31/2007 7:20:52 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
You are entitled to your views.

I'm entitled to not bother entertaining them past a certain point, which we've already passed.

45 posted on 01/31/2007 7:28:41 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

Why the attitude?


46 posted on 01/31/2007 8:19:40 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Hoplite

I think our answers are in following the money.

saudi arabia is paying for a wahabi state.

Essentially it boils down to this

Independent Kossovo equals kill all christians.


47 posted on 01/31/2007 8:23:11 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Southack
'Cause you're just readdressing the same issue.

You're worried about the Serb's response - I'm not.

Relevant.

48 posted on 01/31/2007 8:45:27 PM PST by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

Yes, but ignoring one entire side of a war has seldom been considered clever.


49 posted on 01/31/2007 8:50:51 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: longtermmemmory
Independent Kossovo equals kill all christians.

Of course - just like post-communist Albania equalled kill all christians.

Yer a smart one, aren't ya?

50 posted on 01/31/2007 8:58:12 PM PST by Hoplite
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