who says HE paid it??? SlickWillie prolly had it paid off...
Posted on 01/29/2007 12:52:10 PM PST by freedomdefender
Former White House spokesman Ari Fleischer says Lewis Libby told him over lunch that the wife of a prominent war critic worked at the CIA.
The date of their lunch, July 7, 2003, is at the heart of the obstruction and perjury case against Libby.
That's because it is several days before Libby says he learned from a reporter that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA.
Fleischer also testified that Libby told him it was "hush-hush."
He testified under an immunity deal he reached with prosecutors.
Fleischer sought the deal because he discussed Plame with reporters.
Libby's attorneys plan to argue that makes Fleischer's testimony less credible.
Prosecutors sought to deflect that criticism.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1775616/posts
Meanwhile, Sandy Berger get's a free pass.
Meanwhile, Sandy Berger get's a free pass.
Two White House operatives discuss the fact that CIA operatives are pulling a fast one.
If CIA is pulling a fast one, someone at the White House had better be discussing it.
The CIA operative in question ought to have been fired. The fact that she wasn't is an indication of how high up the chain of command the rot goes.
This is an interesting case from a tactical point of view. Libby needs a better lawyer I think. Somebody like Brendan Sullivan who makes sure there are at least a dozen appellate issues set up before he even walks into court.
Why is that, do you suppose? I don't understand the Bush Administration on that one. I personally think that if Libby lied under oath, he should get what's coming to him. Ditto for Berger if he broke the law by taking docs out of the archives. If they're going easy on Berger, can somebody explain why?
Gotta admire Libby though...He has been much more loyal to the White House than the White House was to him.
I sense he is gonna pay the price for it though..
Berger plead guilty, was fined and his security clearancee was lifted for four years wasn't he?
How so?
Libby's probalem is not perjury.
he should have used the Hillary clinton method of answering. I dont recall, I dont remember.
You see Hillary committed perjury several times. She kept saying she didnt remember or didnt recall. That was a damned lie and we all knew it. A lie is perjury. But as long as you dont commit yourself you can get away with it.
So now we have Hillary running for President when we all know she is a liar
We used to hang those who stole state secrets.
I dunno...57,000 bucks is a pretty stiff fine. He should have done some jail time but 50K is a pretty rugged fine.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/08/berger.sentenced/
Berger wasn't charged with espionage. He was charged with destruction and mishandling classified documents.
Of course, he is going to pay a price. The White House didnt make him lie. In fact, Bush told all to cooperate with the Special Prosecutor and the FBI. Libby lied. No one with his position has that bad a memory. The whole episode with Plame and her husband were top of mind with Libby. He was trying to defend the White House from the charges. He requested information from both the CIA and State Department on why on Plame's husband was sent to Niger. Both reported back. He discussed with Cheney. Then he discussed with Fleischer and others and then a couple days later he hears about it for the first time from someone who didnt even know it (Russert). Give me a break.
The perjury Fitizgerald alledges was about when and where this information on Plame emerged. Libby comments shifted the focus to the press and away from the White House. It was a defensive strategy to protect the WH. Unfortunately, it appears while Libby was engage in a defensive strategy to protect the WH initially people in the WH ( eg Fleischer et al) were actively shifting the blame onto Libby while they were cutting immunity deals with Fitzgerald.
It's quite likely that Rove and Cheney had no idea that Libby was off chatting with reporters. And it's likely that when the White House was doing it's own investigation, they came to Libby and asked him who he told- and not wanting to admit that he was cozy with reporters, he probably lied, saying that he never told anybody. So, my hunch is that his grand jury testimony matches what he first told Rove and Cheney. He lied to them first, and then to Fitzgerald.
This doesn't excuse the with hunt, of course, but it just shows that Libby hasn't been hung out to dry. He hung himself out by not being upfront about being too friendly with reporters.
Umm, Fleischer wasn't in the WH. He was out of the WH. Libby should have cooperated like he was told to.
He could have been charged with espionage, and that's the point. Why was he slapped on the wrist for a very serious offense? Stealing State Secrets, and yes that is the level of documents he was handling, is devastating to National Security.
He was charged with a much less serious crime and then given a slap on the wrist.
"Ditto for Berger if he broke the law"
IF??? There is no IF. He has admitted it. And yet my son gets harsher punishment for not cleaning his room.
Why can't these guys take a page from Ollie North instead of turning on each other and the Administration?
And that means her information was released? Yeah right.
He could have been charged with espionage? How?..Espionage is the act of transferring classified information to a foreign power. The indictment doesn't alledge he did that.
To my knowledge there isn't a " stealing state secrets " charge in US law.
Because Ollie North had a stunningly brilliant lawyer in Brendan Sullivan. He made sure he got Ollie and immunity deal from Congress.
-And yet my son gets harsher punishment for not cleaning his room.-
Your son gets fined 57,000 dollars for not cleaning his room?...Wow...THAT is tough love.
Doen't being charged with espionage mean that you have to be selling secrets to a country that we are against? I think he was charged correctly and was punished appropriately. Although a jail sentence could have been added for a certain amount of time.
Wilson decided that the evidence he provided contradicted the Administration's justification. He went public with his beliefs.
Given the situation and the stakes does anyone seriously believe that any of this - including Plame's identity - could have been kept private? I don't.
So the blame falls on those who allowed the situation to develop, who didn't foresee the dangers. Or - worse - who refused to recognize the constraints imposed by Plame's employment.
I must say that gcochran (on this forum) foresaw - in the run-up to the war - that the Administration's credibility and competence were unlikely to survive close examination.
(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense,
(1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or
(2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
Berger broke the above law, among others. He could have received up to 10 years in prison for this offense, but he got a slap on the wrist.
Wow! I never saw such a battle of words oover a crime that was never commited. Sheeesh
Because Ari and Libby talked prior to the day Russert and Libby talked does not mean that Libby lied to the Grand jury when he said he learned of Plame's position from Russert because he had to know that was incorrect when he said it. It is completely plausible and within Libby's defense strategy to say he got that mixed up when testifying some time later. The hush hush aspect can be seen as Libby telling Ari not to leak this. When Russert asked Libby about Plame, Libby would have remembered that as an ought oh, it has been leaked. A more memorable event than a lunch with a departing WH co worker whom he had little contact with.
I only wrote "if" because I couldn't remember whether he'd been tried yet, or whether he'd copped a plea, or what. I'm not trying to excuse what he did. I just didn't have the details at hand. They shouldn't go easy on him -- let me be on record about that, ok?
I have to say that Libby's lawyer's cross left me bemused. If there was a point, the jury members are going to have to be hellaciously smarter than me -- or the blogger on www.firedoglake.com was simply not tracking.
One of the threads discusses Ari's testimony during cross-examination. There's lots to suggest that he was mixed up too...like his mispronouncing Plame's name, as he says he tends to do only when having read the name first.
No...You don't have to sell infornation to a foreign power to be charged with espionage. Giving it is sufficient. Even stealing it with intent to provide it to a foreign power is sufficient.
Berger was appropriately charged, pled guilty and was given a harsh fine but got off lucky with no jail time. I think the judge erred by not bagging him for a year. Pour encourager les autres,so to speak.
who says HE paid it??? SlickWillie prolly had it paid off...
I think this is exactly right. Yet, wasn't it wholly unnecessary? Protecting the WH from what? No lying or cover up was necessary. The WH should have handled the Wilson lies upfront and directly with the American people. This hush hush approach merely allowed the MSM to falsely paint this as a secret plot to discredit Wilson/Plame when in reality it was merely the WH's attempt at correcting the record on who sent Wilson to Niger and what was the actual outcome of his trip. They should have done it in the bright sunlight. Sadly, so much of the PR out of the WH has been mishandled.
Fair enough.
Easy one ... because Berger is a Clintonista. Further, even if more is revealed
where Berger is concerned ... his case is over.
"I dunno...57,000 bucks is a pretty stiff fine. He should have done some jail time but 50K is a pretty rugged fine."
The amount is relative. It is not such a big fine if one has the ability to earn over $1 million annually, as Berger surely does.
"Then he discussed with Fleischer and others and then a couple days later he hears about it for the first time from someone who didnt even know it (Russert). Give me a break."
And you believe Russert didn't know because he said he didn't know? Since when does anyone, except other media bigs, think media personalities are unimpeachable? Can you say Dan Rather?
Your post makes great sense in hindsight. However this White House, and Whites Houses in general, have never been fond of unadorned candor as a strategy. Transparent cooperation feels too much like capitulation and runs counter to the instinct of the separation of powers doctrine.
"He could have been charged with espionage? How?..Espionage is the act of transferring classified information to a foreign power. The indictment doesn't alledge he did that. "
I'll agree with that. The heart of the matter, why did he remove the documents? I'm not sure that was answered. WE all know it was to protect Clinton, but we are a minority.
As to what can be done politically. NOTHING.
There are more usefull battles to fight.
Its totally irrelevant if Russert knew. Libby had been told in writing and verbally by people at the state department and the CIA that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA and that was instrumental in getting him sent to Africa. Libby told Cheney who then later told Libby (?). Libby held meetings on the topic where according his own notes the topic of Wilson and his wife at the CIA came up. He held other meetings where the topic was to determine how to deal with Wilson and Plame. He told several reporters and then he told Fleischer when he tried to get him to leak the information to other reporters. After all this, he says he FIRST learned that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA and that she was instrumental in sending him to Africa. Sure. To believe that you have to believe that Libby is dumber than shit but is still a smart enough lawyer to be the top aid to the Vice PResident and have a top secret security clearance.
The problem of all this is who cares? Not a single law was broken, and all they have is three years of sniggering and who said what when it wasn't illegal to say it in the first place!!!!
Them's the breaks. The only reason Libby is being prosecuted is to get him to flip and implicate others.
"Meanwhile, Sandy Berger get's a free pass."
Sandy Berger was a lawyer-lobbyist for China before he became National Security Advisor.
YOU'RE JOKING, RIGHT?
Lying to FBI agents, a grand jury and obstruction of justice is a crime.
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