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Archaeologists Explain Significance Of The Walker Site (Minnesota)
The Pilot-Independent ^ | 1-24-2007 | Molly MacGregor

Posted on 01/25/2007 3:47:01 PM PST by blam

Archaeologists explain significance of the Walker site

Find does not affect Walker Area Community Center project

by Molly MacGregor, Pilot Contributor
The Pilot-Independent
Last Updated: Wednesday, January 24th, 2007 05:28:25 PM

Photos provided by Heritage Sites Director Thor Olmanson

Archaeologists dug down about two meters. The 20-some tools were found between 20 and 30 centimeters below the surface.

If you are puzzling about news of an archaeological find at the City of Walker's Tower Avenue project, then you should meet Matt Mattson. He's a volunteer who helped a team of archaeologists uncover what might be the oldest intact site of human activity on two continents.

He describes the 15,000-year-old landscape that surround the site as if he is just back from a visit. "This place was an oasis. Not like we think of an oasis, but a place that was relatively dry and habitable, and surrounded by walls of ice," he said. Thor Olmanson is director of the Leech Lake Heritage Sites program and is the project's principal investigator. He is understandably more cautious in describing the site, especially since "we are in the early stages of site material and landform analysis," he said. This fall, he and David Mather, National Register Archaeologist for the state's Historic Preservation Office, invited geologists, soil scientists, fellow archaeologists and other scientists to investigate the site. "As the natural response is skepticism, everyone who came was ready to debunk the site," said Olmanson. "And, so far, they have left convinced that this is something different, something that needs to be looked at more closely" he said.
Visiting scientists included soil scientists Grant Goltz, from Soils Consulting, Mike Lieser from the USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service (accompanied by Richard Schossow, Walker SWCD), Howard Hobbs, with the Minnesota Geological Survey, Kate Pound, from St. Cloud State University, and Stephen and Susan Mulholland, of the Duluth Archaeology Center.
The Mulhollands collected soil samples from the site to search for microscopic evidence of plant materials (phytoliths), which may help to reconstruct the early site environment.

Until around 11,000 years ago, much of Minnesota was covered with glaciers, and had been for nearly two million years.
There were four major glacial advances across the state. During the last glacial period, what is now north central Minnesota was a "collision point" for several glacial lobes, from the northeast, the north, and the northwest.
As the glaciers began to recede, approximately 15,000 years ago, an ice-free "oasis" developed in this part of the state. There was an access from the southeast to this relatively stable environment which was habitable at least part of the year, although surrounded by glaciers.
It was a dynamic environment, with frequent shifts in the landscape as drainage patterns became established.

The ancient people visiting the site near Walker probably consisted of extended family groups, often up to 15 individuals, Olmanson explained.
They selected certain types of stones, flaked off just enough from the pebbles and cobbles to make sharp tools. They used the tools to prepare plants for food as well as the animals that they had killed or scavenged.
Organic materials they used, such as bone, wood, and fibers, have not survived. The glaciers around them washed out rock and soil debris as the surface melted.
These deposits settled out and formed distinct layers — "a dense soil stratum of sand, coarse gravel and stone cobbles," Olmanson wrote in his October summary report of the excavations. This dense lens lies beneath today's land surface and effectively capped or "encapsulated" the debris that the group of hunters left behind.
After the glaciers melted, the area became dry and warm. Winds deposited fine sand atop of the glacial materials. Over the centuries, the debris left at the site was covered, and left intact, until it was discovered by chance.

The layers of windblown materials and then the deeper layer of stone and gravel literally sealed the site, protecting it "from intrusions of most rodents — subject primarily to those intrusions imposed by tree roots, industrious children, ever-curious archaeologists, and urban development," Olmanson wrote in the report.

Because no organic materials, such as bone, appear to have survived in the acidic soils at the site, conventional carbon dating of the site is not possible.
The preliminary dating of the site is based on the location of the stone tools within the glacial deposits.

Future work should include use of other absolute dating methods are possible, recommended Colleen Wells, field director for the Leech Lake Heritage Sites program. Wells proposes using a dating technique known as Optically Stimulated Luminescence (OSL) which measures the last time that buried sand grains were exposed to sunlight.

The site can be preserved if the proposed extension of Tower Avenue south of the site — an area currently being used as a road, Olmanson said.

"I would assume moving the road is possible," confirmed Ben Brovold, vice-president of the Walker Area Community Center. "The community center would have to reconfigure our parking spaces and retention ponds, but it could be done.
This site will not stop or hurt the community center in any way," he added. "It can be a terrific thing for our project, and something I think we can incorporate into the community center. This could be a huge benefit to Walker."

Options for the site are the topic of an 11 a.m. meeting Friday, at the Walker Fire Hall.

Representatives of the Minnesota State Historic Preservation Office, the Leech Lake Heritage Sites Crew will meet with the City of Walker and Walter Area Community Center.

The site might have gone undiscovered. Because the Walker Area Community Center received a federal grant to build, an archaeological survey was required. The first survey was simply a walk over the 10-acre building site, plus some shovel tests.
The team identified a formation that looked like a "pit house" which sat in an unusual location and was similar to temporary houses built during the fur trade period in the 18th and 19th centuries.

In a second, more intensive investigation, archaeologists determined that the "pit house" was really the remains of a child's fort.
They found several "artifacts" from the early 1960s, including a cap gun. However, in "bottoming out" the site, they found some materials suggestive of stone tools and kept digging. "A deeply buried, intact, sealed component site, situated in this geomorphological context, clearly represents a rare property type in a poorly understood context," Olmanson's report summarized.
The site is important because it is in an unusual location, high above the current level of Leech Lake, because it is intact and sealed, and because there is no "context" for the site — that is, there are no other known sites for comparison that have been identified from this early time period in Minnesota.

The working hypothesis has been that the North and South American continents were populated by people crossing the Bering land bridge (which is now the Bering Strait) no earlier than 12,000 years ago.
This site suggests that people were in North America thousands of years earlier, as the glaciers continued to advance and recede. The Walker site may be similar in age to a village site at Monte Verde, near Chile's southern tip.
It was 1976 when archaeologist Tom Dillehay, then at the University of Kentucky, started working at Monte Verde, on Chile's southern coast and claimed that people lived there 12,500 years ago.
After more than 20 years of work, his claims have been accepted by the scientific community, thus complicating the long-held theory of when humans first crossed the Bering Strait.

Olmanson, Wells and Mattson will discuss results of their work at a forum at WHA High School Auditorium at 7 p.m. Feb. 8. They will share a presentation they are preparing about the site for the Council of Minnesota Archaeology.

Just as archaeologists visualize the past, the discovery of the "Walker oasis" might inspire imaginations about how this archaeological discovery can change Walker in the next 25 years: The Walker Area Community Center has just completed its new Cultural Center, including a public library and museum for the Cass County Historical Society, located just across the road from the archaeological site.
Visitors start their tour at the center, where local art students created dioramas of the Walker Oasis as it looked 15,000 years ago. From the center, the visitor can stroll through the site, along a path that winds through the excavation and then descends into the development of houses and shops located on "Glacier Terrace" below the site.

In the excavating pits, a full crew of archaeologists, geologists and field staff are working. This year, a group from Oxford University is visiting.
Twelve lucky people were selected through annual lottery to help the working archaeologists continue the excavation of the site. This year’s winners submitted their bids two or three years earlier and stay at local resorts for their three-weeks on the dig.
The Leech Lake Band of Ojibwe still manages the program, which added a crew of high school students in 2008.

The International Archaeological Society has just concluded its first North American meeting in Walker, where a series of papers on the Walker Oasis — as the site became known — were the heart of the event.
The 500-plus members spent five days in workshops, conferences and touring the event, scheduled to coincide with the town's annual fall celebration, Walker Mammoth Days — changed from "Ethnic Fest" in 2009.

Highlight of the conference were posters prepared by the Leech Lake Magnet School and University, Minnesota’s first high school and college located in the same facility. High school students have the opportunity to work side by side with visiting scientists from archaeology programs around the world. The school was created when ongoing budget shortfalls threatened the existing public school.

Sensing an opportunity, the school board created a school with a rigorous academic curriculum that uses the local geology and archaeology to educate students in the science, math, language, history and social studies.
The school also developed vocational programs in robotics, manufacturing, graphics and mapping that support the ongoing work at the site.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archaeologists; godsgravesglyphs; minnesota; walker

1 posted on 01/25/2007 3:47:03 PM PST by blam
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 01/25/2007 3:47:28 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

"The Leech Lake Band of Ojibwe still manages the program, which added a crew of high school students in 2008.

The International Archaeological Society has just concluded its first North American.....scheduled to coincide with the town's annual fall celebration, Walker Mammoth Days — changed from "Ethnic Fest" in 2009."

Just wondering. Did we go past 2008 and 2009 already. My Calandar says this January of '07.


3 posted on 01/25/2007 3:54:13 PM PST by proudpapa (Forget Rudy McRomney it's Duncan Hunter in '08!)
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To: blam
Interesting that European hunters would have gotten that far into the North American interior 15,000 years ago.

One note, the 2,000,000 year long period of glaciation is interspersed with numerous "interglacials" where ALL the ice around that site would have melted away. These interglacials may be as short as about 10,000 years, or as long as 35,000 years ~ depending on a number of astrophysical orientations.

I have an arrowhead from the same period ~ it was brought up with material from a well on the Eastside of Indianapolis that penetrated to the "surface" prior to the last glaciation in that area.

Wisconsin may not be the only area to provide habitat suitible for life in that era.

4 posted on 01/25/2007 3:57:27 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: MplsSteve

MN ping.


5 posted on 01/25/2007 3:59:23 PM PST by lesser_satan (EKTHELTHIOR!!!)
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To: blam

15,000 year old geocaching?


6 posted on 01/25/2007 4:21:05 PM PST by OrioleFan (Republicans believe every day is July 4th, but DemocRATs believe every day is April 15th. - Reagan)
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To: blam

BTTT


7 posted on 01/25/2007 4:24:44 PM PST by JDoutrider
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To: blam
They selected certain types of stones, flaked off just enough from the pebbles and cobbles to make sharp tools. They used the tools to prepare plants for food as well as the animals that they had killed or scavenged.

Organic materials they used, such as bone, wood, and fibers, have not survived.

This statement always brings my interest in a story to a grinding halt.
No corroborating evidence has survived, yet someone can take a leap of enthusiasm and described how the ancient groups behaved, based on the presence of chipped rocks and pebbles, created naturally.

I have never read a convincing explanation as to how these enthusiasts separate the naturally chipped stone never used as tools from the ones that might have been used as tools, absent other evidence.

8 posted on 01/25/2007 5:46:34 PM PST by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: muawiyah; Coyoteman
"The Leech Lake Band of Ojibwe still manages the program, which added a crew of high school students in 2008."

Remember that it is the Ojibwe who have the highest (25%) percent of the X-haplogroup in all the Americas.

9 posted on 01/25/2007 6:18:32 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

They also have A+ blood too ~


10 posted on 01/25/2007 6:41:31 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Publius6961

I get a kick that they now have to reroute the road. Of course, if no Federal Funds are spent on the road (county?/city?) then they won't need an archaeologist so they won't run into any artifacts.


11 posted on 01/25/2007 6:50:37 PM PST by geopyg (Don't wish for peace, pray for Victory.)
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To: Publius6961
I have never read a convincing explanation as to how these enthusiasts separate the naturally chipped stone never used as tools from the ones that might have been used as tools, absent other evidence.

Some archaeologists spend the bulk of their careers studying stone tools.

One of my professors used to scour dry creek and river bottoms and other places where rocks grind together looking for natural "tools" to use as teaching aids. He had a room full of them.

On the other hand you have clear living or activity sites, and from them you can get bushels of real tools.

Spend a few decades comparing the two, including such things as using hi-tech tools like electron microscopes to check for edge wear, etc., and you can come up with a lot of information on stone tools. That lets the experts look at a new collection such as this and render a pretty informed opinion.

12 posted on 01/25/2007 7:43:44 PM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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related:

Tools Found In Walker, May Be 14,000 Years Old
WCCO-TV | Friday, January 12, 2007 | Associated Press
Posted on 01/12/2007 11:34:52 AM EST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1766543/posts


13 posted on 01/25/2007 10:31:24 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're not." -- John Rummel)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...
Thanks Blam.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

14 posted on 01/25/2007 10:32:08 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're not." -- John Rummel)
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To: SunkenCiv; gearheadmn

Well, FWIW, their "explanation" seems to yield more questions than answers in my mind(such as it is). But I'll leave it be; it just ain't worth the effort...


15 posted on 01/26/2007 12:35:50 AM PST by ForGod'sSake (ABCNNBCBS: An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly.)
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To: Coyoteman
I'll bet your explanation fell on deaf ears again.
16 posted on 01/26/2007 4:46:59 AM PST by ASA Vet (The WOT should have been over on 9/12/01.)
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To: muawiyah
Gee.....just think:

If it hadn't been for that killing GLOBAL WARMING, we would never had discovered this place!

17 posted on 01/26/2007 7:12:41 AM PST by albee (Okay. so he missed aThe best thing you can do for the poor is.....not be one of them. - Eric Hoffer)
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To: albee
This is right at the peak of glaciation ~ there is no Global Warming at the time.

What we have are caribou and seal hunters who chowed down all the way from Spain to America, and then dined from somewhere near Sable Island all the way to Wisconsin.

18 posted on 01/26/2007 7:20:54 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
What we have are caribou and seal hunters who chowed down all the way from Spain to America, and then dined from somewhere near Sable Island all the way to Wisconsin.

Yes...after all that meat, they were ready for some cheese.

19 posted on 01/26/2007 10:13:57 AM PST by Max in Utah (WWBFD? "What Would Ben Franklin Do?")
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To: blam

Cool. Reminds me of an old site in western PA that has been undergoing archaeological excavation for several decades, Meadowcroft Shelter at Avella PA (Washington County).


20 posted on 01/26/2007 10:20:47 AM PST by Ciexyz (In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:)
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To: Ciexyz
Yup. That was/is the work of J.D. Adovasio and his very good book on the subject is titled, The First Americans.
21 posted on 01/26/2007 11:00:09 AM PST by blam
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To: Publius6961; blam; SunkenCiv
"I have never read a convincing explanation as to how these enthusiasts separate the naturally chipped stone never used as tools from the ones that might have been used as tools, absent other evidence."

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Is it that you have never encountered adequate explanations -- or that you are dogmatically opposed to being convinced?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

First of all, archaeologists are not mere "enthusiasts" -- they are professionals who have devoted entire working lifetimes to the study of ancient peoples and how they lived.

Secondly, the evidence provided by (relatavely rare) presence of preserved organic materials is in no way required to determine whether an assemblage of flakes was natural or man-produced -- or if those flakes were used as tools.

  1. Deliberately-produced flakes have consistent and repeatable morphological characteristics that differentiate them from randomly-fractured stone fragments that occur naturally.

  2. Working of organic materials with stone tools produces characteristic, microscopic wear and polish patterns on the edges of stone tools. Wear on a tool used for cutting meat is significantly different from one used for cutting bone, or antler, or various plant products.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

FYI, "flintknapping" --- the art and science of making stone tools -- is far from a "lost art". Quite the contrary; modern students and practitioners of the art have developed knowledge and skills that surpass that of all but the "grand masters" of their prehistoric counterparts. Here is but one page from this year's "flintknapper's calendar":

The entire calendar, which showcases the (spectacular, and beautiful, IMO) works of dozens of modern flintknappers, can be viewed here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

As an archaeologist, lithic technologist -- and accomplished flintknapper (AKA "experimental lithic technologist") -- I would much rather have the "debitage" (waste flakes) from production of a prehistoric stone tool than I would the tool itself.

I can replicate virtually any prehistoric tool -- so, collecting prehistoric (usually less skilled) attempts at making tools (aka "arrowhead collecting") no longer interests me. OTOH, as one who has spent over forty years studying and applying the physics of fracture in brittle materials, I find that the waste materials ("debitage") from stone toolmaking reveal to me unequivocal evidence of the knapping technique used.

Most flakes produced by human flintknappers have characteristics that are very rarely (if ever) duplicated by fractures that occur in nature. In fact, at some prehistoric work sites, huge mounds of nearly-identical flakes remain at stone-tool production locations. Such multiple duplication never occurs in nature.

~~~~~~~~~~

Pardon me if I appear to doubt your willingness to be convinced, but, when you posted your "I have never read a convincing explanation..." you were connected to the Internet -- where such information abounds.

Google searches quickly produced the following:

... an illustration from Lithic Technology: Tools for Life on the website of Maricopa University. The website includes animated movies of the most common stone toolmaking ("knapping") processes.

~~~~~~~~~~

The use of stone tools (including simple "flake tools") produces microscopic wear and polishing on the working edges that not only indicates use as a tool, but is characteristically different based on the material that was worked.

The entire book, INTERPRETING THE FUNCTION OF STONE TOOLS by Roger Grace is available online. It presents the results of thousands of hours of experimentation and microscopic analysis on the wear patterns and "micropolish" produced on stone tools by working various materials.


Your "No corroborating evidence has survived, yet someone can take a leap of enthusiasm and described how the ancient groups behaved, based on the presence of chipped rocks and pebbles, created naturally." is, (to be kind) disingenuous. If the "artifacts" in question were produced and/or used as tools by early man, the evidence will be apparent.

If there is any doubt, we archaeologists will be the loudest and most persistent critics. (In fact, these very "artifacts" are the subject of vigorous discussion on archaeologist-only listservers at this very moment...)

~~~~~~~~~~

I have expended considerable effort here to provide you the opportunity to educate yourself on these matters. I hope that you enjoy the study -- and that you do so with an open mind.

All the best.

TXnMA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Texas Archaeological Steward
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

22 posted on 01/26/2007 1:53:47 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: Coyoteman
Coyoteman, I think you will appreciate my #22 -- since I went to great lengths to agree with you! '-)
23 posted on 01/26/2007 1:58:17 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: muawiyah
"Interesting that European hunters would have gotten that far into the North American interior 15,000 years ago."

European, as opposed to Oriental or Asian?

24 posted on 01/26/2007 2:01:50 PM PST by Sam Cree (absolute reality)
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To: ASA Vet; ForGod'sSake
I'll bet your explanation fell on deaf ears again.

Let's hope not! (See my #22...)

25 posted on 01/26/2007 2:03:04 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: Sam Cree

Sure. East Asians didn't get to North America for many thousands of years later.


26 posted on 01/26/2007 3:01:10 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: blam
The First Americans by J. D. Adovasio

Thanks, I'll have to check it out.

27 posted on 01/26/2007 4:58:47 PM PST by Ciexyz (In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:)
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To: TXnMA

Excellent addition, thanks.


28 posted on 01/26/2007 5:01:23 PM PST by blam
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To: TXnMA
Coyoteman, I think you will appreciate my #22 -- since I went to great lengths to agree with you! '-)

No need to agree with me. Just tell it like it is.

You went into more detail that I did, as I did not think most folks here would look up any detailed references. But, as you point out, the literature is huge! Lithic technology is a very detailed study, not one which relies on off-the-cuff opinions. And, there are the replication studies, conducted by archaeologists and non-archaeologists alike. You can learn a lot by making stone tools and studying the debitage. (I had a class in this in grad school--we called it "elementary finger bleeding.")

Many archaeologists devote their careers to this particular field, and their findings should not be dismissed lightly.

29 posted on 01/26/2007 5:21:52 PM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: blam
Yeah, I was at The Walker Site...

The new one they gave me... Squeaked!
30 posted on 01/26/2007 5:27:01 PM PST by Bender2 (Gad, Millee! 1st Lindsy goes into rehab, then you bust a gut to get my attention...)
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To: TXnMA; Coyoteman; blam
Thank you, TXnTX, Coyoteman, and blam.

Although the doubting poster hasn't returned, I at least listened and learned.

31 posted on 01/26/2007 5:29:57 PM PST by ASA Vet (The WOT should have been over on 9/12/01.)
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To: muawiyah; Sam Cree
"Sure. East Asians didn't get to North America for many thousands of years later."

The oldest Mongoloid skeleton ever found is only 10k years old.(Oppenheimer) Anyone older that that is someone else...Maybe not European.

Vintage Skulls

32 posted on 01/26/2007 5:34:13 PM PST by blam
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To: Coyoteman
(I had a class in this in grad school--we called it "elementary finger bleeding.")

LOL!!! Any good knapper's toolkit includes Band-Aids and SuperGlue. When doing lecture/demos, I have been know to SuperGlue a cut closed (stings like mad -- but stops the bleeding)... I also learned (very early-on) that sandals are not safe knapping wear!

As you might guess, I spent so much time off-line composing #22 (including taking a break to walk a couple of miles through the woods with my wife) that I didn't see your #16 -- until after I posted #22. I prefer to think that we agreed -- because both of us were right! '-)

33 posted on 01/26/2007 6:03:42 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: TXnMA; ASA Vet
I'll bet your explanation fell on deaf ears again.

Let's hope not! (See my #22...)

Well, I wasn't aware ASAVet's shot was in my direction, so let me clear up something. I don't have a problem with the flaking business; I can follow and understand the science behind it, thanks in part to several on this forum. BTW Tx, excellent post your #22!

I didn't really want to get into this much, mainly because few others seem to have a problem with it and I may be picking at nits. BUT, the explanation I have trouble following is how these artifacts came to be under glacial sediment, particularly atop the highest point in Cass(?) county(~150' above the surrounding area according to this or another aritcle I followed). This "oasis" was apparently several miles from the nearest glacier during this period, and notwithstanding the erosion in and around this "hard spot(?)" by glacial melt, that's a considerable height for runoff - from several miles away. More particularly, sediments tend to settle in low spots; not on high points, which tend to erode.

Broken ice dams? SUDDEN increase in temperatures creating hellacious runoff? Maybe an IMPACT?

A confession: My initial assumption from the earlier THREAD was that these sediments settled out and were laid down "in place" as the glacier(s) melted. Wrong assumption apparently but still in all doesn't necessarily clear up my "confusion".

Thanks for your efforts.

34 posted on 01/26/2007 6:50:00 PM PST by ForGod'sSake (ABCNNBCBS: An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly.)
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To: ForGod'sSake

It wasn't a shot at you at all. Sorry if tracking back in the thread lead to you. If it did it was unintentional.


35 posted on 01/26/2007 8:47:36 PM PST by ASA Vet (The WOT should have been over on 9/12/01.)
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To: TXnMA

Oh, sure, CM gets the *short* one. BTW, the "22" link s/b:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1773793/posts?page=22#22


36 posted on 01/26/2007 11:18:24 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're not." -- John Rummel)
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To: ForGod'sSake

Geoarchaeology: The Earth-Science Approach to Archaeological Interpretation Geoarchaeology:
The Earth-Science Approach
to Archaeological Interpretation

by George (Rip) Rapp
and Christopher L. Hill


37 posted on 01/26/2007 11:23:21 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're not." -- John Rummel)
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To: blam; muawiyah

Thanks.


38 posted on 01/27/2007 5:05:29 AM PST by Sam Cree (absolute reality)
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To: SunkenCiv; blam; Coyoteman
"BTW, the "22" link s/b: "

~~~~~~~~~~~

LOL!!! I got it right in my #23 to CM.

BUT... in #25, I guess I overwrote part of the URL in my clipboard when I copied, "I'll bet your explanation fell on deaf ears again." to quote it. :-(

Good catch!

MEMO TO SELF: Next time, check link function in PREVIEW before POSTing... :-(


BTW, I hope you folks enjoyed the "Flintknapping 2007 Calendar". Some of the workmanship (and pretty materials) pictured there are really awesome!

The skill and craftsmanship displayed in the "exotics" shown in the"August" photo excel even that displayed in even the most elaborate Mayan "eccentric" knapped artifacts.

What the heck... might as well post the image here...

There is a lot of awesome "punch" work in that photo. Of course, the modern "lithic artists" use metal punches instead of the deer "cannon" bone or antler punches used prehistorically. And, many (if not most) of the objects in that "exotic" group are made of modern "man-made" materials (AKA "glass"). [All of the colorful or transparent objects in the upper left and lower right corners are made of modern glasses -- but they shore are purty!!!]

OTOH, because I hate to see a grown man (namely, TXnMA) cry, (when you break a piece with days of work invested) I probabably wouldn't even attempt replicating some of those super-delicate "eccentric" forms.

As for the "chain links" -- I've carved such out of a single piece of wood -- but there is no way I'd try to do it in flint!!!


The bottom line is that when we "moderns" talk about stone tools, we know what we are talking about!!!

39 posted on 01/27/2007 7:23:48 AM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: Coyoteman
On the other hand you have clear living or activity sites, and from them you can get bushels of real tools.

Like this?

In a second, more intensive investigation, archaeologists determined that the "pit house" was really the remains of a child's fort. They found several "artifacts" from the early 1960s, including a cap gun. However, in "bottoming out" the site, they found some materials suggestive of stone tools and kept digging.

Kinda reminds me of Calvin reconstructing a dinosaur's skull from a buried coke bottle :-)

. OK, score one for consistency, one doesn't wish to throw out an entire model on the basis of one purported outlier...

But I would've liked to have been a fly on the wall when the grad student who dug up the cap gun took it in to show to the lead investigator :-)

Cheers!

40 posted on 01/27/2007 10:23:52 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers

This posting is actually directed to everyone who has questions about the site...

Why don't you people wait for the official results from the RESEARCHERS who actually did the work? Relying on the media to present acurate data is beyond irresponsible. We all know that sensationalism sells, and that's what the media plays on. They have to sell a story. For everybody's information, I was a researcher involved in the project, and I can tell you all that the last thing we wanted was for the media to release the story before we completed our analysis. Everybody should take this into consideration before they start attacking the work they know nothing about. The three principals involved in this project have combined experience of over 60 years. We are not "enthusiasts" (whatever that means) but rather professionals, and in fact the reason the story was released by the press is because we have the support of numerous well-respected archaeologists, glacial geologists, soils scientists, and geologists in the state. If you want to know what is really going on with this site, wait for the professionals (me and my colleagues) to present our findings in an official report. Until then, be patient.


41 posted on 01/29/2007 7:40:29 AM PST by crkwells
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To: crkwells
Why don't you people wait for the official results from the RESEARCHERS who actually did the work? Relying on the media to present acurate data is beyond irresponsible. We all know that sensationalism sells, and that's what the media plays on. They have to sell a story. For everybody's information, I was a researcher involved in the project, and I can tell you all that the last thing we wanted was for the media to release the story before we completed our analysis. Everybody should take this into consideration before they start attacking the work they know nothing about. The three principals involved in this project have combined experience of over 60 years. We are not "enthusiasts" (whatever that means) but rather professionals, and in fact the reason the story was released by the press is because we have the support of numerous well-respected archaeologists, glacial geologists, soils scientists, and geologists in the state. If you want to know what is really going on with this site, wait for the professionals (me and my colleagues) to present our findings in an official report. Until then, be patient.

Good advice, and welcome to FR.

Coyoteman (also a professional archaeologist)

42 posted on 01/29/2007 3:20:47 PM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: crkwells
Awwww,you spoil everything.

Look for me on the crevo threads. I make most of the puns ;-)

Full Disclosure: I am in exile from Minnesota, so for me, reading the story was like old home week.

Cheers!

43 posted on 01/29/2007 8:56:33 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Coyoteman; TXnMA

Hey, just wanted to thank you both for presenting such professional and knowledgeable information for those who are unfamiliar with the field. I am new to the media spotlight, and this is my first experience blogging. But I couldn't resist responding, because not a single reporter has gotten it right yet! Wish my colleagues and me luck with this...


44 posted on 01/30/2007 11:55:12 AM PST by crkwells
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Retracing the footprints of time
by Steve Sandford
September 9, 1996
web archive version
Direct radiocarbon dating of the Calgary site is not possible because the ancient artifacts were not found in conjunction with organic matter, such as bones or decayed plant matter, which is necessary for such testing. Absent such verification, Prof. Young dismisses the find. For one thing, he says, the artifacts are so simple they could merely be naturally-occurring rocks; he says that most informed scientists are doubtful they are tools. And even if they are tools, he adds that there is no way to be sure that they were originally situated where they were found under the gravel, since the site has served as an exposed gravel pit for the last 100 years. Comments Prof. Young: "Any dude could have put that rock there."
Ancient stone tools chip away date of early humans' arrival
by Margaret Munro
National Post
Jan 16 1999

web archive version
Recently, Dr. Chlachula and his colleagues have discovered three more sites containing what they believe are preglacial stone tools. One set of choppers and scrapers, described in the current edition of The Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences, was found in a gravel pit near the town of Grimshaw in northern Alberta. The other tools were unearthed last summer at two locations west of Lethbridge. All of them, says Dr. Chlachula, indicate that humans roamed through the Prairies between 20,000 and 40,000 years ago... Dr. Richard Morlan, curator of paleo-environmental studies at the Canadian Museum of Civilization in Hull, Que., says he has no reason to doubt Dr. Chlachula. Few people in the world, says Dr. Morlan, can match the 36-year-old researcher's expertise. Professor Nat Rutter, the former head of geology at the University of Alberta in Edmonton, agrees, noting that Dr. Chlachula has three PhDs and extensive field experience in both old world and new world archaeology... Prof. Rutter, at the University of Edmonton, also has much confidence in his research skills. "Jiri's work embarrassed a lot of other people," he says, because it suggests that Canadian archaeologists have been looking in the wrong place for human artifacts and they should be hunting underneath glacial deposits. "They may not admit it," says Prof. Rutter, "but they're all out there looking now."

45 posted on 02/19/2007 10:45:57 AM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Thursday, February 15, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: crkwells

.


46 posted on 03/18/2007 1:30:14 AM PDT by ForGod'sSake (ABCNNBCBS: An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly.)
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To: blam

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_1.htm


47 posted on 03/18/2007 2:30:58 AM PDT by dennisw ("What one man can do, another can do" -- The Edge)
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To: Coyoteman

thanks, I often wondered how the experts could tell difference. Learned something today


48 posted on 03/18/2007 2:57:27 AM PDT by Nailbiter
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