U.S.- Mexico Pact Revealed: Billions to Non-Citizens.

NewsMax.Com ^ | Jan.5 '06 | Dave Eberhart

[T.L.Sink]

The U.S.- Mexico Social Security Totalization Agreement ...an agreement signed between the Bush administration and the Mexican government in 2004 that would funnel billions of U.S. Social Security funds to Mexican citizens. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) has already warned that as a result of this agreement, the number of unauthorized Mexican workers and family members eligible for social benefits will likely increase. The Social Security Administration itself warns that Social Security is within decades of bankruptcy - yet they seem to have no problem making agreements that hasten its demise...

[T.L.Sink]

Those who think S.S. is simply a pension program should realize that it includes such things as disability - a common occupational hazard of illegal workers; and, it also includes (in the event of a worker's death) guaranteed monthly survivor benefits to all children until majority age. It's typical that it took a lawsuit under the Freedom of Information Act to extract this shameful truth from the administration. Another bonanza for illegals at the expense of American citizens and tax payers!

[billybudd]

Just one more way El Jefe Bush is selling out our country.

[Last Laugh]

Just one more way El Jefe Bush is selling out our country.,

Yep. But he's got another thing coming.

Many of us grow tired of this selling out of the USA

[Alter Kaker]

Holy hysteria, batman!

I'll wager a pretty penny that you haven't actually read the totalization agreement and neither (clearly) has the author of this idiotic polemic.

[Tzimisce]

Since illegals tend to have brown skin and funny accents, libs will be all in favor of this.

So pay those taxes they're raising and smile while you're doing it.

[isthisnickcool]

George W. Bush is not the guy I thought he was.

[bobby.223]

agreed.

[tsmith130]

I'll wager a pretty penny that you haven't actually read the totalization agreement and neither (clearly) has the author of this idiotic polemic.

You'd be correct...so can you give us the highlights and tell us why this isn't upsetting?

[keepitreal]

"For example, say TREA officials, a worker who turns 62 after 1990 generally needs 40 calendar quarters of coverage to receive retirement benefits. Under Totalization Agreements, workers are allowed to combine earnings from both countries in order to qualify for benefits.


The agreement with Mexico, like other Totalization Agreements, would allow workers to qualify with just six quarters, or 18 months, of U.S. coverage. "

----

And the Mexican government dummies up the other 34 quarters, thus not having to support its citizens in their old age. Brilliant plan.

[buccaneer81]

I'll wager a pretty penny that you haven't actually read the totalization agreement and neither (clearly) has the author of this idiotic polemic.

I called Senator Voinovich's office about this today. His aide told me this was all part of the amnesty deal. We are getting lied to and screwed.

Rough times are ahead. Both for us and the elites.

[Mr. Mojo]

....if he signs this travesty

According to the article the agreement was signed in '04.

[BW2221]

As a matter of fact I have. We have a similar agreement with other countries, but with Ireland and Italy we have nationals working there and they have nationals working here. None has 12 - 20 million illegal aliens (undocumented workers to you) in the U.S.

What's the preferred flavor Kool-Aid this month for Bushbots?

[Alter Kaker]

Totalization

• Since the late 1970’s, the U.S. has established international social security agreements that coordinate the U.S. Social Security program with the comparable programs of other countries.

• These international social security agreements are called “totalization agreements” and have two main purposes:

  • Eliminate dual social security taxation that occurs when a worker from one country works in another country and is required to pay social security taxes to both countries on the same earnings. As a result of existing totalization agreements, U.S. workers and employers currently are saving about $800 million annually in foreign taxes they do not have to pay.

  • Help fill gaps in benefit protection for workers who have divided their careers between the U.S. and another country, but who have not worked long enough in one or both countries to qualify for social security benefits. With totalization, workers are allowed to combine work credits from both countries to become eligible for benefits. The benefit amount paid is proportional to the amount of credits earned in the paying country.

An agreement with Mexico

• An agreement with Mexico would save U.S. workers and their employers about $140 million in Mexican social security and health insurance taxes over the first 5 years of the agreement.

• An agreement would also fill the gaps in benefit protection for U.S. workers who have worked in both countries, but not long enough in one or both countries to qualify for benefits.

• Mexico is the second largest trading partner with the U.S. Agreements are already in effect with Canada, the largest trading partner with the U.S., and 19 other countries.

• With Mexico, the U.S. now has signed agreements with eight of its top ten trading partners. Many of these agreements have been in effect for nearly two decades. The two exceptions are China and Taiwan. By law, the U.S. could not enter into agreements with these two countries because they do not have generally applicable social security systems that pay periodic benefits or the actuarial equivalent.

Costs of an agreement with Mexico

• Social Security actuaries estimate that a totalization agreement with Mexico would have a negligible long-range effect on the Trust Funds.

• Costs to the U.S. Social Security system are estimated to average about $105 million per year over the first five years. These costs are for additional benefits to eligible U.S. and Mexican workers and reduced Social Security tax contributions under the dual taxation exemption.

• To put this in perspective, in 2002, costs to the U.S. system for the existing agreement with Canada were about $197 million.

Effective date of an agreement with Mexico

• In the United States, once the agreement is signed, the President will submit the agreement to Congress where it must sit in review for 60 session days. If Congress takes no action during this time, the agreement can move forward.

• In Mexico, once the agreement is signed, the Mexican Senate must approve it.

Countries already having totalization agreements with the U.S.

• The United States currently has Social Security agreements with Canada, Chile, South Korea, Australia and most of Western Europe.

  Country	Effective Date	Country	Effective Date
  Italy	November 1, 1978	Portugal	August 1, 1989
  Germany	December 1, 1979	Netherlands	November 1, 1990
  Switzerland	November 1, 1980	Austria	November 1, 1991
  Belgium	July 1, 1984	Finland	November 1, 1992
  Norway	July 1, 1984	Ireland	September 1, 1993
  Canada	August 1, 1984	Luxembourg	November 1, 1993
  United Kingdom	January 1, 1985	Greece	September 1, 1994
  Sweden	January 1, 1987	South Korea	April 1, 2001
  Spain	April 1, 1988	Chile	December 1, 2001
  France	July 1, 1988	Australia	October 1, 2002

• More detailed information about these totalization agreements can be found at http://www.socialsecurity.gov/international/.

[rottndog]

Yes, and I would also like to know if you Bush apologists have any problem with the way this came about--there was no legislation passed by congress, or an international treaty approved by 2/3 of the senate, that provided the legal authority for it (or at least contemplated this would happen)--Just Bush deciding it should be thus.

[CindyDawg]

Why? How doees this help our country?

[upchuck]

This is completely outrageous!

More info:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1760916/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1761668/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1762217/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1762391/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1762624/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1762842/posts

Hot topic, huh?

[samm1148]

"Or is the stench of this batch of koolaid so noxious that even bushbots can't swallow?


I'm still waiting for an answer."

You won't get it. The moderates; fresh from the defeat that they spear-headed for the republican party are busy accusing "far-right extremists" and prattling about how conservatives elected Nancy Pelosi. Never mind that moderate republicans took a beating in that election. Bushbots never let facts get in the way of a good limp-wristed crying fit.

Poll after poll shows that Americans oppose illegal immigration. The democrats ran on the broken promise of "fixing immigration". Yet the bushbots don't get it. They are out in force with that tired old "vote for our northeastern liberals or else". You have to ask yourself: If these people don't believe that conservative values can win; then what are they doing in the republican party? How far left will they compromise until they are indistinguishable from democrats?

[rottndog]

I believe there is an executive order putting this plan into effect, sitting on his desk awaiting his signature. What he signed before was a general agreement to get the process started.

[upchuck]

Pinging ALL BushBots to come over here and justify this action by your guy...

{{ crickets }}

Uh huh.

[BW2221]

The agreement was signed in 2004, but apparently has not yet been presented to Congress.

The telling fact is how this agreement was kept in such secrecy that the Freedom of Information Act had to be used to gain knowledge of it.

[tsmith130]

Bookmark for later read when my eyes are fully opened. Thank you.

[Cobra64]

Me too.

[rottndog]

I'm starting to think that many bushbots are part of a 5th column within the GOP.

[Mr. Mojo]

Since illegals tend to have brown skin and funny accents, libs will be all in favor of this.

And most importantly, they're in favor of it because the aliens in question vote Donkey after (and often before) they're granted amnesty.

Either the GOP establishment is in complete denial about this or they just don't give a damn that the vast majority of these tens of millions of new voters (many of whom are now accustomed to gov't handouts) will be voting 'Rat.

[BW2221]

As stated earlier, how many of these countries have 12 - 20 million illegal aliens in the USA?

[Alter Kaker]

Congress gave the Social Security Administration the authority to conclude agreements with foreign social security providers. These agreements save taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars a year by preventing dual taxation. Similar agreements have been concluded with 20 foreign nations. And yet nobody raises a peep until an agreement is signed with Mexico -- even though the result is less taxation and lower costs for American workers, and even though the costs with similar totalization agreements with other countries were much higher than the costs with Mexico are likely to be.

This is dime store slack-jawed demagoguery of the most demented order. There are a few people on this site whose brains shut off the moment they hear the word "Mexico." Are you one of them?

[bobby.223]

not to many 'bots out yet tonight are there? there won't be, even they can't justify this crap.

[gitmogrunt]

Those charged with enforcing laws from the Federal Level to the State, County and City Levels, have fooled/ failed/and screwed the American people.

Clouds of some sort of a tax or other from of rebellion loom in the horizon, at least in my mind, anyway.

[Alter Kaker]

As stated earlier, how many of these countries have 12 - 20 million illegal aliens in the USA?

Not one illegal alien will receive social security from the United States government, certainly not because of this totalization agreement. Find a new strawman.

[Last Laugh]

We need a Tax Revolt.

The Boston Tea Party was not easy for those that took part in it. But it sure was effective.

[cripplecreek]

Politicians remain in power even when they're out of power. If the get voted out of office they simply get cushy CEO positions with all the stock options and a nice golden parachute upon retirement. If they're really lucky a president can simply appoint them to a position of power.

[gitmogrunt]

correction post # 32...."from" should be "form".

[keepitreal]

How many workers US workers are in Mexico? How many Mexican workers are in the US? How does this even out?

[rottndog]

Why did it require a lawsuit to pry this info out of the Social Security Admin?

When people hide things they are being deceitful.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

George W. Bush is not the guy I thought he was.

But he sure is the guy that his establishment handlers want him to be.

[Last Laugh]

I'll wager a pretty penny that you haven't actually read the totalization agreement and neither (clearly) has the author of this idiotic polemic.

LOL! There is reading and then there is UNDERSTANDING implications.

Polemic? LOL! Back at ya!

[Iwo Jima]

If,, as it appears, the Democrats are hell bent for leather to initiate impeachment proceedings against President Bush, just who is it that will come to his defense? You know, the way that Clinton had his minions defending his every move on the TV, in the press, and before Congress?

Class? Anyone? Anyone?

It appears to me that in this respect Bush is on his own. Unlike Bush, Clinton never alienated his base.

[pandoraou812]

I am sorry to say I feel the same and I never thought I would say it. It seems like he just doesn't hear the voice of the people. No border wall, this new BS with SS. I don't understand it. Its like the American people's rights don't matter as much as these illegal Mexicans or the BS with the Muslims. Nothing would surprise me anymore...I think.....I hope... ~~Pandora~~

[Cobra64]

You can't reason with a Bushbot any more than you can reason with a liberal. They live on another planet, are devoid of common sense, reason, and logic. If they got hit by a bus, they wouldn't know why.

[eleni121]

A perfect opportunity to do away with anachronistic obsolete govt. imposed larceny!

[ECM]

You don't get it, do you? This is part and parcel of an overall amnesty plan--they *will* get this when Bush and co. force through their amnesty plan (if you'd been paying attention you'd have noticed that it hasn't gone into effect yet...wonder why that is, eh?)

[BW2221]

"Not one illegal alien will receive social security from the United States government, certainly not because of this totalization agreement." If you believe this, you're even more delusional than I first thought.

There have been numerous stories recently about how illegal aliens not only will receive Social Security after amnesty, but even will be able to claim any payments maid by using fraudulent Social Security numbers.

I just love Open Borders Lobbyists like you; you get cheap labor and our children clean up the mess.

[Cobra64]

If there weren't employer payroll withholding, it would be easy.

[rottndog]

Not one illegal alien will receive social security from the United States government, certainly not because of this totalization agreement. Find a new strawman.

Really?

Social Security fraud is a felony. Identity theft (which occurs when an illegal alien uses a stolen social security number) is also a felony. Both are FEDERAL FELONIES. The feds know of millions of stolen SS#s being used in workplaces around the country and are doing virtually nothing to stop it. Why should they be believed when they say they won't pay illegals benefits?