Posted on 12/24/2006 5:47:01 PM PST by mfnorman
WASHINGTON Dec 24, 2006 (AP)— The FBI failed to fully investigate information suggesting other suspects may have helped Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols with the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, allowing questions to linger more than a decade after the deadly attack, a congressional inquiry concludes.
The House International Relations investigative subcommittee will release the findings of its two-year review as early as Wednesday, declaring there is no conclusive evidence of a foreign connection to the attack but far too many unanswered questions remain.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
Dana Rorabacher is an honest guy, who really tries. But the FBI is in this up to its eyebrows, and they are determined to deep six the truth. And, naturally, ABC is eager to help.
The anonymous German at at unnamed site (Elohim City) was named Andreas Strassmeier. He claimed to have worked for German intelligence (GSG-9) and he seems to have been brought to Elohim City covertly by clinton's CIA.
Although he was in the country illegally, the FBI never bothered to interview him. His father, Gunther Strassmeier, was head of the CDU, and had a high ranking position under Helmut Kohl. You might think that ABC could at least be bothered to name him.
BTTT!
"The FBI failed to fully investigate information.."
I doubt that the FBI failed to fully investigate the OK city bombing. They are too professional to overlook details. It is more likely that they found out things the public should not know about.
I truly believe that only about 1/3 of people living in this country really care about the future of America.(Yeah, there is only 1 America) Once the jihadis start exploding in malls, then we'll see some outrage.
Gotta figure, the moonbats got their evil right wing bomber so that's all they care about. Personally McVeigh's writings about the Gulf War sound like a moonbat to me.
I agree the Jayna Davies book is quite good. However, I have a buddy who is an Air Force intel officer and he was less than convinced.
Stop it with the good threads tonight!!
My wife has laid down the law and said that I cannot be here, so no more posting of anything I would want to read.
Post articles about toenail fungus or bellybutton lint or something.
Although toenail fungus could be intriguing.
It's more like they found things that could embarrass the sitting POTUS... as if he had an ounce of shame. They did NOT investigate past the bounds that were set for them... and of COURSE we are not supposed to know that. It was a HOMEGROWN terrorist, a RIGHT-WING plot. It was NOT Jihadists; it was NOT Saddam and his people. It was a RIGHT-WING MILITIA, do you hear me???
The FBI/US Attny office both fitted Curt Weldon with some cement political shoes for pushing hard into Able Danger.
My gut tells me that OKC just isn't solved, that Nichols and McVeigh were helped from the outside.
Angeles and his wifes deathbed confessions for instance,
She had signed affidavits and people willing to testify under oath. I think it was worth a look instead of outright dismissal. Far more convincing than the government story, the Flight 800 cartoon and the Waco circus.
The federal government was very, very fast at destroying the remains of the Mura federal building - and any additional evidence - in the case ... very suspicious ....
Ambrose Evans Pritchard got a lot of it right very early in the game. Ever since then, they have been burying it deeper and deeper.
Clinton appears to have known about it ahead of time. He was all set to go with his big speech right after it happened. As you say, he blamed it all on "right wing Christian militias," he demonized the conservative talk show hosts such as Rush Limbaugh, and he turned his campaign around with that one speech.
Either the FBI was actually involved in the business, or they were closely monitoring it and screwed up, I'm not sure which.
The other curious point is that the building could not have been brought down, according to the report by an ordnance expert that the court refused to consider, unless plastic explosives had been taped to the main supporting columns in the basement. No way on earth that fertilizer in a van that far away could have brought down the reinforced columns like that.
As I recall, the ATF had informants inside Elohim city, and they didn't want to compromise them, the German citizen was also a FBI informant.
The Air force Colonel did say that ANFO didn't have enough brisilance to shatter the concrete and bring down the bilding in the manner that it came down.
I don't buy the 9/11 conspiracy theories, but the OKC cover up rings true to me.
you are correct, Clintonistas were prepared beforehand, and Clinton's later apology/clarification was hollow indeed.
the Angeles dying brings everything to a literal "dead end".
Moonbat.
It would appear that EVERYONE in Elohim City, including the religious nut who ran it, was an informant. Some worked for the FBI, some worked for the ATF, and apparently the CIA was somehow involved as well.
The job of informants is to go along with a bombing plot and keep the authorities informed about it, so they can intervene at the last minute and arrest everyone.
But what do you call it when every single person involved, including apparently some former members of the Iraqi Republican Guard, were all government informants?
Playboy cartoon, circa 1965: bunch of bearded guys in fatigues sitting around a table with pistols pointed at each other. One of them says: "Well, if we're all with the CIA, this meeting is adjourned."
OKC terrorism alert!
Twenty-one eye witness none of which knew each other
claiming to have seen McVey with the Iraqi Hussein Al
Husseini. Now with all the people on the planet and all
possible places they could be it is beyond the realm
of reason to believe that those two just accidentally crossed paths that often.
Lots of strange "coincidences" happen in OKC. It's where Zachariahs Moussoui used Nick Berg's computer just by coincidence.
Ping.
Moonbat.
Not in this case, Clinton went to visit OKC, the delivered a scathing speech about "Right Wing Hate radio" directed at Rush and G. Gordon Liddy.
New anti terror laws were proposed, The Dole Clinton anti terrorism act, that was the Patriot Act before there was a "patriot act".
Try looking into this sort of stuff before the "moonbat" takes flight.
Clausewitz's famous reference to the "Fog of War" refers to the military leader's need to make decisions when faced with out-of-focus and incomplete information. Political leaders have the same challenge before them, and so do investigators.
You never have all the data.
Unfortunately, the poorly-educated public, blind to these facts but accustomed to seeing everything solved in the 17 plot minutes of a half-hour TV show, goes ape when there are loose ends. This ignorance and impatience fans the flames of conspiracy theories, devotees of which will flock by the scores to this thread.
QED
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
Here's two dots for ya:
1) Oklahoma City bombing...domestic terrorism from the extremist right.
2) TWA Flight 800...accidental center fuel tank explosion.
Even money that the traitorous Clintonoids tried to figure out a way to make the Cole look like an accident.
Outrage, I don't think so, I think once the bombing starts the cry to talk will be even louder than it is now. We have become a nation of less than brave men.
Actually explosives can do a lot of unexpected things, so I would never say "no way". The "explainers" say that the ANFO lifted the Murrah building and that stressed the columns. That would be plausible EXCEPT it doesn't explain the seismograms or the many eyewitness accounts of two explosions, the first one small and sharp and the second large and long.
McVeigh and Strassmeir were at the Lady Godiva strip club eleven days before the bombing. Strassmeir told the late-Shawn Tea Farrens, "I'm a very smart man. . . .Yes I am, and on April 19, 1995, you'll remember me for the rest of your life." [Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, THE SECRET LIFE OF BILL CLINTON: the unreported stories, Regnery, 1997, page 87.]
Farrens' death was ruled a "suicide" after a copy of a security video confirming her conversation re Strassmeir was found.
Strassmeir was allowed to leave the country.
The meetings between Nichols and Youssef's people in the Philippines are indicative.
The multiple sightings of McVeigh with a Middle-Eastern man are reminiscent of the many, many witnesses who saw a missile arcing up to TWA Flight 800.
The CIA's "animation" [cartoon] is as pathetic an explanation of the latter as the obdurate denials are of the former.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. . .who gained eleven points in the polls with OKCBomb as well as assured re-election the following year.
Reichstag Fire Redux replete mit eine NSDAPuke.
Thanks for the ping and a bump..........
I see that Brigadier General Benton K. Partin's report is still available on the internet, here:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/PARTIN/okm.htm
Partin was a highly qualified expert, with no apparent axe to grind.
It's curious how swiftly all the rubble was carried away and buried. A replay of the way all the rubble from the Waco complex was taken away and buried--including the infamous front door with its bullet holes.
What evidence we have suggests that the Murrah Building's concrete pillars were pulverized--not something that could have happened from a distance.
It is normal for a weirdo (McVeigh) to have associates who are also weirdos. It's most unlikely that someone who subscribed to the racism and apocalyptic vision of this crowd to have been accepted into German intelligence or GSG-9, which are (apparently unbeknownst to you) quite different things. (Intelligence studies enemies and potential enemies to determine their capabilities and intentions. GSG-9 is a counterterrorist operational unit of the Federal German Border Guards, and has responsibility for hostage situations. It was formed after the Munich Olympics of 1972 demonstrated that existing police couldn't do the job).
and he seems to have been brought to Elohim City covertly by clinton's CIA.
That's a pretty bold statement. If "Clinton's CIA" did this "covertly," how did you find out? Maybe the same way you found out this?
His father, Gunther Strassmeier, was head of the CDU...
Er, no he wasn't.
...and had a high ranking position under Helmut Kohl
Who was actually the head of the CDU and the head of the CDU's caucus in the Bundestag. Günter Strassmeir was a minor politician and was never head of the CDU... you're saying something like referring to President Bob Haldeman.
Here's an FR thread that excerpts Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's book on Watergate. The book is loopy in places (and unsourced nearly everywhere) but he describes the Strassmeir family accurately.
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b275f5c16b8.htm
Evans-Pritchard takes [Andreas] Strassmeir's weird claims of espionage work seriously, but then I don't believe that he [E-P] is a soldier. Strassmeir's foggy tales of intelligence activity sound like the same old dreary wannabees we meet over... and over... and over. Just a Kraut one this time.
Now, intelligence agencies do occasionally screw up and employ flakes. but they are to flakes who pretend to be spooks as one is to ten thousand.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
P.S. I now see after posting that this site is managed by William Rivero, who has something of a history with FR and is not necessarily to be trusted. But the Partin report appears to read as I remember it from earlier postings.
ABC will do whatever they are told to do, and when not told, ABC's default position is whatever is in the best interests of their Democrat party. Period. It really is as simple as that.
I suggest you read the accounts published at the time.
Good one. Except that perhaps Playboy made a mistake when they assumed that the CIA was predominantly on our side. Not sure how true that has been in recent years.
Thanks for the 'pings'!!
Jayna Davis' book is an excellent read on this...it would be good to see a 'part 2' to it with all of the unanswered questions resolved some day.
how many bombs have been set up by white christians in the last 20 years?
Besdies the abortion people, i can't think of any, the odds are it was a masterminded by a muslim like the rest of the bombs. To me this is powerful evidence.
That's Michael Rivero, isn't it?
The Denver Post named two people who tried to speak to McVeigh and the men with him near the location of the federal building, why no interest in their testimony?
Why were eyewitnesses who saw McVeigh at the scene "not needed" to testify at McVeigh's trial?
For years citizens seeking truth about Ruby Ridge and Waco were subject to contempt and contumely until the Congress finally held real hearings. (Yes, I searched for the right word, contumely. Never heard of it but it's near perfect.)
Just as the f.b.i. knows the truth behind the shooting downing of the n.y. jet and doesn't think we are sophisticated enough to know or understand the truth.
Carolyn
We've always known Jayna Davis had the true story.
I have witnessed the continual attempt to destroy the present President with lies, distortion, and joining hands with enemies of this nation.
President Bush has made reference to and John Ashcroft identified the government the Clintons put into place. Those walls built from the foundations of government agencies were not about national security, they were for self serving purposes.
Joe Wilson getting himself sent under the cover of the US government to pretend to seek intel is MOONBAT and look what that supposed CIA venture produced.
Not only were the upper portions of four of the five main (3' X 20" X 26') columns on the north portico pulverized, they were pulverized at distances far exceeding the brisant (pulverizing) range of the low VOD explosive charge in the Ryder truck.
"The other curious point is that the building could not have been brought down, according to the report by an ordnance expert that the court refused to consider, unless plastic explosives had been taped to the main supporting columns in the basement. No way on earth that fertilizer in a van that far away could have brought down the reinforced columns like that."
Technically, there was no sub-grade "basement" under the Murrah office tower. On the north side, where the truck was parked, the lowest floor exited at street grade beneath a 26' (two-storey) high portico or porch. The top 5' of the columns mentioned above were integrally-cast into the massive (200' long X 5' tall X 3' thick) "spandrel" or "main header beam" -- across the outer top of the portico -- that supported the upper floors of the building along its full length.
Not only were the upper portions of the columns pulverized, the 5' X 3' X 20" volumes of the header beam where it was conjoined with the columns were pulverized as well. Those regions were selectively and sharply pulverized. The header beam was completely unscathed between its junctions with the columns.
IF there were "plastic explosives" "taped to the main supporting columns", the location was neither at the base of the columns, nor in a (non-existent) "basement". Any such charges (if present) were affixed to the junctions of the columns and the header beam at the top of the porch some 21 - 26 feet above ground floor level.
I'm trying to locate my CG graphics and annotated photos (from my failure analysis section of the OKBIC Final Report) somewhere on backup media or on an old hard drive...
I intended to to copy y'all on #45...
Actually ANFO by itself very usually would not pulverize concrete even at zero distance. It does not shatter things it pushes them.
In the wake of OKC one of networks showed some BATF guys trying to shatter a standing cinderblock wall with ANFO. They finally "succeded" only when they used a huge amount of primer touching the wall. So transparent.
I think that I can answer that. It's rather mundane but still a filthy trick.. and an old trick.
After the JFK assassination the left tried for months to associated Oswald with the emerging modern conservative movement.
I personally do not remember Walter Cronkite's innuendo suggesting that Barry Goldwater was involved but others do remember.
The lie back then was the same as Clinton's lie; to wit, conservative criticism of JFK caused Oswald to do it.
Lot's of Conservatives suffered including very popular conservative talk show host and W.W.II Marine vet Joe Pyne -- I'd say Mr. Pyne was the closest thing we had to modern talk radio back then. (The father of modern conservative talk radio?)
But perhaps it could have been another Hispanic or Filipino.
I read the extensive FR posts on OKC, but never came across that name.
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