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The Biggest Story Of Our Time: Self Extinction (Mark Steyn: Its The Demography, Stupid Alert)
Chicago Sun Times ^ | 12/24/2006 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 12/24/2006 4:11:13 AM PST by goldstategop

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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian

Fascinating; thank you for an interesting post. But, well... in my experience there's much prophecy of relevance to recent history and, indeed, future history in the Bible.

For example, tell me what you flash on with these two verses:

Revelation 15:2: And I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and his image and over the number of his name.

Revelation 20:4: I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.


61 posted on 12/24/2006 8:53:27 AM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast ([Hunter/Rumsfeld 2008!])
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To: goldstategop
but Universal seems to have got cold feet and all but killed the picture (Children of Men).

I was afraid that would happen. I saw previews for it a couple of months ago, but when I went to check on it for its supposed Christmas release date, I found that the number of places in which I would be released had been dropped to, basically, NYC and LA, with a couple of other major regional cities getting a ONE-DAY release the next day. I bet a lot of pressure was put on Universal.

62 posted on 12/24/2006 8:57:21 AM PST by livius
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To: Gunny Gene
It's about balance. Too many people is just as bad as too few.

True, but actually, it's about socialism and hedonism. That's what is unsustainable without more and more people.

Most solid and caring families have the ability and desire to take care of their elderly members. It just might not be convenient or much fun. And there's the rub and why socialism is a requirement for the selfish.

For an example, look no further than two years ago when the French went to the beach in a terrible heat wave and left their grandparents to swelter and die by the tens of thousands in state institutions while they frolicked on vacation - figuring it was not their responsibility.

63 posted on 12/24/2006 9:04:22 AM PST by Gritty (A future with upside-down family trees (4 grandparents, 1 grandchild) is unsustainable-Mark Steyn)
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To: BW2221

I couldn't do that, because nothing you allege is true, except more company prosecutions. Suggest you research the state of INS on 9/11 and the changes that have been made. It is true that illegal workers have had a lower priority than terrorists until now.


64 posted on 12/24/2006 9:28:41 AM PST by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: theBuckwheat

I seriously question that statistic. If they are including Aspergers, maybe so. People diagnosed with Aspergers are generally pretty normally functioning and do marry and have children.


65 posted on 12/24/2006 9:29:49 AM PST by SuzyQue (Remember to think.)
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To: Gritty
I'm using "balance" in the larger sense, in case anyone is confused by my ramblings.

Too often we humans tend to think of ourselves in isolation from the rest of the natural world. Big mistake. Huge. The interaction among ourselves and the planet is infinitely complex, and regardless of our level of technology, social development, or species arrogance, we remain an integral part of it. The planet could literally extinquish us tomorrow and not even notice we had been here. I try to remind myself of that daily.

66 posted on 12/24/2006 9:30:31 AM PST by Gunny Gene
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To: goldstategop

"Suppose for a moment that the birth in Bethlehem that Christians celebrate this week never happened --that it is, as the secularists would have it, mere mumbo jumbo, superstition, a myth."

Mark's straw man is stunning. Secularists don't necessarily dispute the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth. It's shocking to see him base a column on such a blatant error.

It's the aspects of divinity that are seen as myth. Stay with politics and theater, Mark, if this is what happens when you leave the reservation.


67 posted on 12/24/2006 9:33:38 AM PST by gcruse (http://garycruse.blogspot.com/)
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
Fascinating; thank you for an interesting post. But, well... in my experience there's much prophecy of relevance to recent history and, indeed, future history in the Bible. For example, tell me what you flash on with these two verses: Revelation 15:2: And I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and his image and over the number of his name.

In Revelation 15, John sees a scene in Heaven; ergo, I take John 15:2 as referring to Saints of the Church standing in Heaven before the Sea of Glass (cf. Revelation 4:6), singing triumphally of the Days of Vengeance which the Lord is visiting upon the Great Whore of Babylon, Anti-Christian Old Jerusalem.

Revelation 20:4: I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.

Revelation 20:1-6 refers to the Church Age following the Incarnation, Resurrection, and the Judgment upon the Great Whore of Babylon, Anti-Christian Old Jerusalem, the "thousand years" or long period of time during which the Church despoils the "strong man's house" and converts many Gentiles to salvation in preparation for Christ's second coming.

68 posted on 12/24/2006 9:38:54 AM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty -- Luke 17:10)
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To: goldstategop

btt


69 posted on 12/24/2006 9:39:56 AM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: RKBA Democrat
There are some very dedicated Christians who at more of an emotional and religious level have already gotten the message loud and clear. They're already having children like mad and home educating them to boot. And they're teaching their children the importance of doing the same thing.

Agreed. They're also adopting children that others reject. They are the west's demographic lock box. (With apologies to Al Gore)

70 posted on 12/24/2006 9:57:10 AM PST by Maynerd (Virtual Fence - only the tax dollars are real)
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To: SuzyQue
The rate that is important to demographics is the percent of live births who, for whatever mental, emotional, or physical condition will not be able to form their own families and raise their own children in later life. Demographers quote the birth rate. If the percent of births of dysfunctional humans increases, obviously this will have grave demographic implications.
71 posted on 12/24/2006 10:17:11 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: finnigan2

The notion that even the wealthy ought not have more than two children is generally accepted. Down here in the metroplex, houses with 6,000 square feet or more typically have only a few bedrooms. I met a man at a church function who has twelve kids. His biggest problem was finding a house with enough bedrooms so that the older kids could have at least some privacy.
"Speaking of" Do you remember the old movie with Clifton Webb: "Cheaper by the Dozen?" I like it better than the Steve Martin one.


72 posted on 12/24/2006 10:22:08 AM PST by RobbyS ( CHI)
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To: theBuckwheat

No - not disagreeing with you. I was just pointing out that the skyrocketing rate of "austism" may due more to diagnosing bias. People with Aspergers ARE functional (think engineer-types). Including those diagnoses into "autism" can make it seem a much more serious problem than it is.


73 posted on 12/24/2006 10:41:02 AM PST by SuzyQue (Remember to think.)
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To: Popman
I can see it now: Moveon.bot

Amnestia, no machine is illegal! We only do the jobs humans are too slow to do. Halliburton taken over by office PCs! Reporting for du-u-u-u...reporting for du-u...{We're sorry, but your government has encountered a problem and needs to close.}

74 posted on 12/24/2006 11:06:54 AM PST by Sender ("How do you know what the fish think? You're not a fish." -Hui Zi)
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To: goldstategop
Japanese and European societies are trying to secure the future on upside-down family trees in which four grandparents have one grandchild. No matter how frantically you "adjust," that's unsustainable.

Steyn cuts to the chase...

75 posted on 12/24/2006 12:09:01 PM PST by GOPJ
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To: RKBA Democrat

Is that quote from you? Sure has a ring of truth to it.


76 posted on 12/24/2006 12:17:16 PM PST by Hardastarboard (Hey! What happened to my tagline?)
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To: goldstategop

Later reading.


77 posted on 12/24/2006 1:53:09 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (The people walking in darkness have seen a great light...Merry Christmas!)
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To: goldstategop
They exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshipped and served the creation rather than the Creator.... Therefore, God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature.

Romans 1:25-26

78 posted on 12/24/2006 4:58:11 PM PST by Rummyfan (Iraq: Give therapeutic violence a chance!)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Thank you for your explanation of Revelation. I have been re-studying it lately for our small group will study this book this coming year.

Your explanation fits with the "Preterist" school of interpretation--that the book was fulfilled in the first century, by the fall of Jerusalem.

Certainly, from Jesus explanation in Matthew 24, some things were to come to pass in the lives of those hearing His words.

However, John almost certainly wrote the book of Revelation in the 90's AD. This is attested to by Justin Martyr, who was a student of Polycarp, who was a student of John, who wrote the book.

John himself was the bishop of Ephesus until he was seized and exiled to Patmos, where he received and wrote the book of Revelation.

I think a more reasonable explanation is that the book encompasses the first century of the Church through the present day and into the future. This is a more historic interpretation of the book.

Given time, we both will know the truth of the matter.
79 posted on 12/24/2006 5:08:19 PM PST by Forgiven_Sinner (Here's an experiment for God's existence: Ask Him to contact you.)
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To: gcruse

Secularists are the ones who are narrow minded.

Steyn brilliantly makes the point that birth is part of the divinity. Jesus could have been identified at any point in the chronology of life but he is identified pre birth.

The preservation of baby Jesus against genocidal slaughter is also indicative of life''s value.

Secularists are a weird lot that think they can read texts and pick out metaphysics and non metaphysics.


80 posted on 12/24/2006 8:56:17 PM PST by lonestar67 (Its time to withdraw from the War on Bush-- your side is hopelessly lost in a quagmire.)
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