Posted on 12/20/2006 5:53:15 PM PST by the anti-liberal
After receiving initial reports from a Civilian Police Advisory Training Team (CPATT) source two days ago and investigating further, here's what I can tell you:
According to two CPATT officials--one in the U.S, one in Iraq--there is no one named "Jamil Hussein" working now or ever at either at the Yarmouk or al Khadra police stations. That is what they have said all along and nothing has changed.
The Baghdad-based CPATT officer says there is no "Sgt. Jamil Hussein" at Yarmouk, which contradicts what Marc Danziger's contacts found. I have another military source on the ground who works with the Iraqi Army (separate and apart from the CPATT sources) and is checking into whether anyone named "Jamil Hussein" has ever worked at Yarmouk.
There is only one police officer whose first name is "Jamil" currently working at the Khadra station, according to my CPATT sources.
His name is Jamil Ghdaab Gulaim (alternate spelling per CPATT is "Ghulaim.") Previously, Jamil Ghdaab Gulaim worked at a precinct in Yarmouk, according to the CPATT sources. Curt at Flopping Aces has received the same info.
Now, go back and look at the full name and location information the Associated Press cited in its statement on the matter:
[T]hat captain has long been know to the AP reporters and has had a record of reliability and truthfulness. He has been based at the police station at Yarmouk, and more recently at al-Khadra, another Baghdad district, and has been interviewed by the AP several times at his office and by telephone. His full name is Jamil Gholaiem Hussein.
Let's review: AP's source, supposedly named "Jamil Gholaiem Hussein," used to work at Yarmouk but now works at al Khadra. CPATT says the one person named "Jamil" now at al Khadra -- Jamil Ghdaab Gulaim -- also used to work at Yarmouk. His rank is the same as that of AP's alleged source. His last name is almost identical to the middle name of AP's alleged source. (FYI: In Arabic, the middle name is one's father's name; the last name is one's grandfather's.)
According to the CPATT officers, Captain Jamil Ghdaab Gulaim "denies ever speaking to the AP or any other media." I retracted information to the contrary two days ago based on a single CPATT source who said he had erroneously stated that Gulaim had admitted being the source.
To repeat: Both CPATT sources in the U.S. and Iraq have confirmed that Jamil Ghdaab Gulaim denies speaking to the AP.
That leaves a couple of unanswered questions:
1. Is Jamil Ghdaab Gulaim the real name of AP's oft-cited source?
2. If not, where is "Captain Jamil Hussein" currently working?If he is a Baghdad police officer, as AP asserts, why hasn't anyone--not CPATT, not MOI, not Marc Danzinger's sources--been able to locate him?
I'll be sending these questions to AP executive editor Kathleen Carroll.
She might also want to take a look at Bob Owens' thorough post exploring the ethics of using undisclosed pseudonyms for sources. He surveyed journalists and media mavens from all parts of the ideological spectrum with these three questions:
If it is determined that a reporter has been using named source in an on-going series of stories, and that name turns out to be a pseudonym, under what circumstances would this be considered unethical behavior, and how serious a breach of ethics would this be?
Would it be compounded if the reporter insisted upon the veracity of the pseudonym?
What responsibility does the reporter bear in verifying the identity of his source?
Ms. Carroll might want to think about her answers.
See-Dubya saves her the trouble and cites AP policy:
Nothing in our news report – words, photos, graphics, sound or video – may be fabricated. We don't use pseudonyms, composite characters or fictional names, ages, places or dates.
AP's defenders are flummoxed about why this "one story" matters so much in the larger context of violence in Iraq.
See-Dubya at Junkyard Blog has compiled a very valuable map of the wide variety of Baghdad locations from which "Captain Jamil Hussein" had reported incidents of violence to the AP. I asked him to add a few other significant markers and he sent a revised map along:
This is not just one story. It is at least 61. And all of these. And this big one. It is not about conservative bloggers ignoring the bona fide, grim realities on the ground. It is about the credibility, veracity, trustworthiness, and accountability of the world's "essential global news network"--more important than ever in a time of war.
***
Eason Jordan is still looking, but has nothing new to report:
Several IraqSlogger colleagues in Baghdad are tracking leads in an effort to locate Jamil Hussein.
IraqSlogger's two biggest concerns: determining the ground truth and not losing lives in the process.
The Baghdad neighborhood where the disputed episode occurred, Hurriya, is a dangerous Shia area, while the neighborhoods where Captain Jamil Hussein is supposedly based (Yarmouk and/or Khadraa) are volatile Sunni-dominated Sunni-Shia mixed areas.
Iraqi police are themselves the frequent target of terrorist and insurgent attacks -- thousands have been killed -- and police stations are difficult-to-approach fortresses. Iraqi police have understandable anxieties and suspicions when outsiders start poking around in an effort to track down a certain police officer. Also worrisome: Some Iraqi police are alleged to be members of sectarian death squads. Bottom line: This effort to find Jamil Hussein is dangerous for all involved on the ground.
Nevertheless, since "Jamil Hussein" has been quoted in dozens of AP stories, he'd seemingly not be impossible to track down in person.
We'll get back to you with ground truth when we determine it.
How about you, Tom Zeller? Brian Montopoli? Anything new to report?
***
Blog-bashers on both sides will snidely look down their noses at these questions as "second-order distractions" by a "mob" of "imbeciles". Their thin-skinned defensiveness speaks for itself. And for those of you surprised by the vehemence of the anti-blog attitude of the Wall Street Journal, don't be. With the exception of Peggy Noonan, blog hatred seems to be a company virus (see here and here).
Brought to you by:
Michelle Malkin
A bogus source for 61 stories? AP is a disgrace.
Hey, let's cut them some slack. Anyone can make 61 honest mistakes.
Bob Owens looks at the magnitude of the AP's Jamilgate:
This developing Associated Press implosion may go back as far as two years, affecting as many as 60 stories from just this one allegedly fake policeman alone. And Jamil Hussein is just one of more than a dozen potentially fake Iraqi policemen used in news reports the AP disseminates around the world. This does not begin to attempt to account for non-offical sources which the AP will have an even harder time substantiating. Quite literally, almost all AP reporting from Iraq not verified from reporters of other news organizations is now suspect, and with good reason.Instead of affecting one show on one network watched by 14 million viewers as Rathergate did, "Jamilgate" means the Associated Press may have been delivering news of questionable accuracy to one billion people a day for two years or more. In this evolving instance of faux journalism, "60 Minutes" is now potentially 60 billion false impressions, or more.
A principled, professional news organization owes its consumers the truth. To date, the Associated Press, as voiced by comments from officers international editor John Daniszewski and executive editor Kathleen Carroll, has refused to address the rampant inconsistencies in the "burning men" story, produce physical evidence proving their allegations, or produce star source Iraqi Police Captain Jamil Hussein. Arrogantly, they attack the messenger (both U.S military and Iraqi government sources and bloggers), and insist we must believe them, even though they give us no compelling reason to do so, and many reasons to doubt them.
I have been tracking this Pulitzer Prize (in a fair world) investigative research by the Magnificent Michelle. She has incredible guts and persistence, as evidenced by endless vile racial slurs and threats of physical violence against her and her family by some moonbat thugs.
We absolutely LOVE YOU Michelle!!!
Yes, and above and beyond the faked named sources think of all the cock and bull stories their unnamed sources tell.
    |
Jamil Hussein Ping!
It must be a slow news day for MM!
Whoever the Iraqi police/or Iraqi police imposter, Mahdi army shill, interior ministery spy is/was, it will still be my belief that what was reported (the 6 burned alive Iraqi individuals) was not a false story.
It has been reported by the media and elsewhere since that day and even before that day there have been some horrific happenings in that town of Hurriya being carried out by men dressed in military and police uniforms. Do a google search on Hurriya. What a violent place. Most of the remainder of the Sunnis just fled a week or so ago.
But you know what really puzzles me is how Michelle Malkin and whoever else could get such a quick (almost spontaneous)response from members of the US Military to what had transpired in one town in all of Iraq. I do not think I have ever saw such a quick response from them.
What are your thoughts on that? Does Michelle and some in the media and on blogs have a red phone into the insurgency battlefield in Iraq?
Perhaps those that have all this time on their hands to communicate with bloggers and such can be put to use on the front lines or perhaps assist in training of the Iraqi military or police force, so they can get the hell up out of that hell hole and come home.
Good night, talk at you tomorrow about this. I just ran across other articles regarding this matter.
Friday, December 15th, 2006
EX-CNN CHIEF TO FLY PRO-WAR BLOGGERS TO IRAQ
Former CNN news chief Eason Jordan has invited conservative bloggers Michelle Malkin and Curt (who does not disclose his surname) of FloppingAces.com, to fly to Iraq at Jordan's expense to investigate a controversial Associated Press report claiming that Shiite militiamen burned alive six Sunnis as they left worship services last month. U.S. military officials denied the story as well as the existence of the A.P.'s primary source for it, identified in the report as Police Capt. Jamil Hussein. Malkin and Curt are among numerous conservative bloggers who have accused the A.P. in particular and the news media in general of disseminating enemy propaganda about the war. On Wednesday Jordan, who himself was forced to quit CNN after he publicly accused the military of targeting journalists covering the conflict (he later said that his remarks were misinterpreted), announced that he was creating a website, IraqSlogger.com that would attempt to present non-partisan information about the conflict, primarily from the viewpoint of ordinary Iraqis. Malkin and Curt have accepted the invitation. On Thursday, First Lady Laura Bush joined the criticism of media coverage of the war when she said during an interview on MSNBC that "the drum beat in the country from the media [about the war] ... is discouraging." She added, "I understand why the polls are what they are because of the coverage we see every day in Iraq."
http://www.movieweb.com/tv/news/58/16458.php
Okay Goodnight for real!
If AP doesn't have a mascot, well, I think you've given them one!
61* stories...
AP, a trusted source for news*
The plot thickens.
Question, has AP or any other news agency used Jamil Hussein as a source since this story broke?
Thanks for the update.
On the money Phil -
So the report of the 6 men burned at prayer time was really just "fake but accurate" reporting? Is that what you are saying?
Why do I suspect that if I click on the link, it's going to hurt? :-)
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
Bump
Re-Bump!
Oh wow, Bagdad Bob is back!! Good post Phil
Thanks FR for the ping.
What I am saying is that it has not been proving that this did not happen.
And according to reports of other horrific actions in the town of Hurriyah, the burning of 6 individuals would not be far off the mark.
By following the various reports it sounds more to me that it is the Iraqi interior ministry, the Iraqi interior ministry spokesman, the fake and bad Iraqi policemen and the bad and fake Iraqi defense personnel who are the less than truthful.
Actions in the town of Hurriyah
December 10, 2006
Once quiet, working class neighborhood becomes focus of sectarian cleansing
December 14, 2006
Gunmen Abduct Dozens Of People In Iraq
December 17 2006
Leave it all behind and you'll live
Fleeing Iraqis trade homes for their lives
December on track to be one of the deadliest for troops in Iraq; another helicopter down
A recent outbreak of attacks against Sunnis in Hurriyah, a mixed neighborhood of northwestern Baghdad, has sparked apparent retaliatory violence from the minority sect and raised new fears of an organized campaign by Shiite militants to drive Sunnis from the area and strengthen militia control of the capital's north.
Witnesses say scores of Sunni families have been fleeing Hurriyah in recent weeks, and Sunni organizations claim that the Shiite-dominated Iraqi army and police have done little to stop the violence.
Al-Askari said five Iraqi army companies -- which would be about 600 soldiers -- are stationed in Hurriyah to protect all its residents.
"Some people are using places such as Hurriyah to support their false claim that the government and its security forces are incapable or unwilling to stop such violence," he said.
The neighborhood was calm Monday, with shopkeepers reopening and students returning to school, according to a police officer, Rahman Abdel-Hussein.
"We can't deny the presence of the outlaws in Hurriyah who have managed to intimidate residents and force some of them out of their houses. But Hurriyah isn't the only area where this is happening in Baghdad. It's going on in other neighborhoods, too, and all Iraqis are being targeted, not only one sect," al-Askari said.
http://aimpoints.hq.af.mil/display.cfm?id=15529
Once again, has it been proven that this did not happen Robert A. Cook, PE?
Oh I forgot to ping the rest. Ping!
Sunnis and Shiites traded gunfire from behind sandbags piled in front of mosques and from rooftop posts until U.S. troops entered the fray and tamped down the violence.
Fighting also has been fierce in the Hurriyah district, a one-time mixed district where the Mahdi Army's efforts at complete segregation have been stopped only by the stubbornness of some families who would rather face death than abandon their homes.
For months, the sects have traded kidnappings, gunfire and intimidation on families to flee. Last Thursday, a series of car bombings in the vast Shiite district of Sadr City killed about 200 people and injured at least that many more.
An old Iraqi love song celebrates a woman's eyes as so beautiful that "you won't find the likes of them in Karkh or Risafa." These days, both sides of the river are battlefields for sectarian supremacy.
Karkh
The most violent reprisal attacks for the Sadr City blasts came in Hurriyah, the blue-collar neighborhood where Saddam's bureaucrats stored tea and other government rations in large warehouses. Until recently, Hurriyah remained a mixed-sect neighborhood, celebrated by Iraqis as the home district of the country's best-loved singer, Kadhim al-Saher, who is said to have a parent from each sect.
For the first two years after the U.S. invasion, Hurriyah was known as a hotbed for the Sunni insurgency. In 2006, however, Mahdi Army militiamen began inching into the area from Shiite districts to the northeast and northwest.
Local Sunnis, along with extremist groups, are fighting back to prevent the militia's capture of Hurriyah. Losing it would mean near-total Shiite control of the northwest side of the Tigris. So far, at least three of about a dozen Sunni mosques have been taken over by the Mahdi Army and converted into Shiite places of worship. Two others were flattened in bombings and burnings, including one in the past week.
Residents estimate that two-thirds of Hurriyah is now under Mahdi Army control.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:GwZrun0VCGAJ:www.sacbee.com/341/story/83445.html+hurriyah&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=84
So, with this credible background that shows that the source of these 60+ stories is NOT "easily" the truth, and with a KNOWN background that establishes the opposition lies - frequently and deliberately, it is SOLELY the AP's responsibility to establish this story is true.
TexKat:
Has the negative been proven, you ask?
Well, there has been no evidence to support the original story since it came into question, and a great deal of reporting indicating that nothing of the kind happened. There were no funerals, no burned bodies, no photos, nada.
And, of course, Capt. Jamil Hussein, if he does exist, seems to be in a secure, undisclosed location at this time.
"More than half the battle is in the media." Ayman al Zawahiri.
You need to pick a different hill to die on.
Buckhead I have not choosen any hill to die on yet!
What?
The burden of proof is on AP to prove the story did happen. They can't even produce their witness to the 61 stories.
Common sense says you don't ask somebody to prove a negative.
Yes, one would think so.
None of the people at Friday prayer at that mosque reported any such incident. There is no evidence of a fire happening at that mosque. Only one person in that neighborhood reported that it happened and he has recanted. No other media source in Iraq reported this event (and they riot over cartoons, how do you think they would react over SIX people being pulled out of a mosque and immolated?). The AP's source cannot be found and the people who work at the police station where the AP claims he worked have never heard of him. No morgue reported the bodies, no funeral took place, no graves can be found, and the men just disappeared and left no relatives.
That's as firm as you can be in proving a negative. What evidence other than the AP do you have that it happened?
Militias Splintering Into Radicalized Cells
New Groups Appear More Ruthless In Use of Bombings and Death Squads
By Sudarsan Raghavan
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, October 19, 2006; Page A01
BAGHDAD -- The young Shiite men, some wearing black masks, glided from house to house in search of Sunni Muslim men. They arrived at the two-story dwelling of Mohammed Hussein clutching a bomb, neighbors said. As his mother stood at the front gate, they detonated it. Shrapnel and glass flew, sending her to the hospital. A wall fell on a neighbor, sending him to his grave.
Hussein, who is Sunni, arrived home an hour later and immediately blamed a man called Aziz Dinar. Residents in this western Baghdad neighborhood of Hurriyah -- in Arabic, it means freedom -- said Dinar heads the local office of Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr and elements of his militia, the Mahdi Army.
"We know he is behind all the incidents taking place in Hurriyah," Hussein, 29, a civil servant, said with confidence. "He is the one who destroyed our house."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/18/AR2006101801865.html?p=hurriyah+hussein&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&x=wrt&u=www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/18/AR2006101801865.html?nav=rss_world&w=hurriyah+hussein&d=I3QRfEVuN71x&icp=1&.intl=us
I believe that to be incorrect.
There is no evidence of a fire happening at that mosque.
Which mosque are you speaking of?
Only one person in that neighborhood reported that it happened and he has recanted.
Why?
No other media source in Iraq reported this even
Do you know that as fact
Do you read Arabic?
how do you think they would react over SIX people being pulled out of a mosque and immolated?).
How have they acted since this insurgency began? It appears they are either carrying out revenge killings or fleeing the town of Hurriyah.
The AP's source cannot be found and the people who work at the police station where the AP claims he worked have never heard of him.
And you know this how? And who are the people at the police station that you claim that has never heard of him?No morgue reported the bodies, no funeral took place, no graves can be found, and the men just disappeared and left no relatives.
And you know this how?
That's as firm as you can be in proving a negative. What evidence other than the AP do you have that it happened?
What evidence do you have than what you believe that it did not happen?
Four mosques and several houses were burned in a small Sunni part of the mainly Shi'ite Hurriya area in northwest Baghdad, Sunni Deputy Prime Minister Salem al-Zobaie told Reuters.
One witness said 14 people were killed in his mosque during Friday prayers: "It was attacked by rocket-propelled grenades," university teacher Imad al-Din al-Hashemi said. "When the gunmen moved on to attack another mosque, we evacuated the wounded.
"http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061124/ts_nm/iraq_dc
>I believe that to be incorrect.
So post any information you have that would refute that.
>>There is no evidence of a fire happening at that mosque.
>Which mosque are you speaking of?
Are you really that ignorant or are you just trolling here? This whole discussion is about six people who were supposedly doused with kerosene and burned after Friday prayer at the Sunni Mustafa mosque in Baghdad. I then said there is no evidence of a fire outside that mosque. You respond with "Which mosque?"! If you can't follow simple arguments linking a-to-b there's no reason to bother with you anymore.
>>Only one person in that neighborhood reported that it happened and he has recanted.
>Why?
I suppose he recanted because he was caught in a lie. That's what liars do.
>>No other media source in Iraq reported this even
> Do you know that as fact Do you read Arabic?
No, but other reporters do and they have not quoted any Iraqi news source other than those that have repeated the AP story. You can be sure that if there were an independent story, it would have come out by now.
>> how do you think they would react over SIX people being pulled out of a mosque and immolated?).
> How have they acted since this insurgency began? It appears they are either carrying out revenge killings or fleeing the town of Hurriyah.
The have reacted by magnifying every incident all out of proportion with street demonstration and demands to the government and the MNC. There has been no reaction from anyone over this incident.
>> The AP's source cannot be found and the people who work at the police station where the AP claims he worked have never heard of him.
> And you know this how? And who are the people at the police station that you claim that has never heard of him?
Read this, this, this, and this.
>>No morgue reported the bodies, no funeral took place, no graves can be found, and the men just disappeared and left no relatives.
> And you know this how?
Go here. Read.
>>That's as firm as you can be in proving a negative. What evidence other than the AP do you have that it happened?
> What evidence do you have than what you believe that it did not happen?
I just told you. Sheesh, what evidence do you have that Hillary Clinton hasn't been secretly replaced with an body double and is actually living in Antarctica? It's not possible to prove a negative, it's up to you to prove that it happened. So far there is ZERO evidence that it happened outside of the AP's (and only the AP's) reporting.
LMAO!
So are you?
Has anyone been on the lookout for Sunni Deputy Prime Minister Salem al-Zobaie or is he also a fictious character?
Did you utilize the link provided in that post or did you just read the excerpt, intelligent?
Yes I read it. Please cut and paste where it says that six men were removed from a mosque and burned. It's not there.
Did he report that six men were removed from the Mustafa mosque, doused with kerosene, and burned?
Iraqis walk amid the rubble at the entrance of a mosque which was bombed by unknown gumen.
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