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Panama delivers a lesson to isolationists
The Oppenheimer Report on Latin America ^ | 10.29.2006 | Andres Oppenheimer

Posted on 12/17/2006 12:20:18 PM PST by j_accuse

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Miami Herald and El Nuevo Herald columnist Andres Oppenheimer, author of five best-sellers on Latin American affairs and whose syndicated column appears in 55 major U.S. and Latin American newspapers, comments on the latest events in Latin America and U.S.- Latin American affairs. He is a member of The Miami Herald team that won the 1987 Pulitzer Prize. He also won the 1999 Maria Moors Cabot Award, the 2001 King of Spain prize, and the 2005 Emmy Suncoast award.

1 posted on 12/17/2006 12:20:19 PM PST by j_accuse
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To: j_accuse
Nice attempt at trying to tie two entirely unrelated issues together. Turning over the canal to Panama after we spent the blood and sweat to built it was foolish. Allowing the Chinese to get involved, even moreso.

Selective colonialism isn't necessarily a bad thing, even if you support immigration controls.
2 posted on 12/17/2006 12:24:43 PM PST by Old_Mil (http://www.constitutionparty.com/)
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To: j_accuse; BlackElk

I am pro-Hispanic, but I remember the debates. It had nothing to do with dislike or fear of Panama. It had more to do with "We bought it, we built it, it's ours."

Was TR doing some strong-arming? Yes. But there would not be an independent Panama without it. They got plenty of dough, and we didn't have the Red Chinese managing things.


3 posted on 12/17/2006 12:25:36 PM PST by sittnick (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: j_accuse
Oh, another legitimization of the theft, er, giveaway of American property by the Carter administration?

My but the Chinese and the Conquistadors do spend a lot of time trying to convince everyone how wonderful they are.

4 posted on 12/17/2006 12:28:00 PM PST by Regulator
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To: j_accuse

Recomendados Recomendados

REFERENDUM 2006

El Pictures of Panamanians voting on the future of the Panama Canal


5 posted on 12/17/2006 12:30:54 PM PST by j_accuse (I told ya there were no Chinese soldiers in Panama ...)
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To: sittnick

The company partially owned by the Chinese is managing the ports and not the Canal.

The article has one little dig at the Americans that I think needs some light shed on it. The accident rate went down when the ACP changed what was deemed an accident. Under the old Canal Authority, any ship touching anything was written up and reviewed. The ACP however does not follow this practice.

Also, there are still plenty of Americans working at the ACP. Mostly in management and there you are. The Canal is working just as well under the ACP as the Americans :-)


6 posted on 12/17/2006 12:37:27 PM PST by allen08gop (America -- The Arsenal For Humanity)
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To: allen08gop

Thanks for the corrections regarding the ChiComs. In any event, the main original argument in '76 (which carried Reagan to the conventin, saving his bacon in Texas and beyond) was largely a matter of justice, not whether the Panamianians could run the operation well.

I don't particularly want the ChiComs being part owners of the management company running the ports either. The secondary argument had to do with the United States being able to move in and act to protect the Canal as needed without interference. That's a slam dunk when you already own it.


7 posted on 12/17/2006 1:39:32 PM PST by sittnick (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: j_accuse

This is the 21st Century and at some part we had to turn over the canal. Just like we would had given up the military base in Cuba if the country didn't become Communist.


8 posted on 12/17/2006 1:47:31 PM PST by MinorityRepublican (Everyone that doesn't like what America and President Bush has done for Iraq can all go to HELL)
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To: j_accuse

None of those statistics are really inpressive.

My wife still hates Jimmy Carter for giving away the canal. James Baker (R-TN) at the time, helped Jimmy push this through. Yes the same James Baker on the Iraq Study Group.


9 posted on 12/17/2006 2:32:49 PM PST by packrat35 (guest worker/day worker=SlaveMart)
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To: packrat35

I think those Paqnamanians who are doing a good job managing the canal would be annoyed to be lumped together with illegals committing identity theft.


10 posted on 12/17/2006 2:41:39 PM PST by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: sittnick

You are welcome.

BTW: All the Pentagon people I speak with say it is still is a slam dunk to protect the Canal. Treaty wise and militarily.


11 posted on 12/17/2006 3:04:11 PM PST by allen08gop (America -- The Arsenal For Humanity)
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To: packrat35

"None of those statistics are really inpressive"



Neither is your grasp of facts. The Baker you speak of was Howard Baker(R TN). The Baker of the Iraq Defeat Committee is James, a Houston lawyer


12 posted on 12/17/2006 3:06:07 PM PST by Figment
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To: allen08gop

I'll split the difference: we keep the Canal, and we should have let them keep Noriega. Any good will we received was more than lost by going in and seizing the head of state on drug charges. That little act can be used as a pretext for all kinds of mischief by many a state.

What's done is done, and I'm glad there have been no serious flare-ups, but I would typically favor Reagan's judgment over Carter's and Buckley's put together.


13 posted on 12/17/2006 3:49:30 PM PST by sittnick (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: Figment

Your right. My mistake. It was Howard Baker.


14 posted on 12/17/2006 4:06:23 PM PST by packrat35 (guest worker/day worker=SlaveMart)
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To: ClaireSolt

Where did I mention identy theft in my post?


15 posted on 12/17/2006 4:07:16 PM PST by packrat35 (guest worker/day worker=SlaveMart)
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To: sittnick
Okay, but there is a whale of a lot more to that story than is published. Noriega had to go and it got to the point that he was simply asking for it. A lot, and I do mean a lot, of stuff never hit the press.

Especially in the last few months before the invasion.

Frankly, I think it isn't all that bad that we gave it to them. It seems to have cemented the relationship between us quite nicely and given the neighbors around here, that's a good thing.

I don't give Carter any credit for that as I think his motives were in a different direction. It just happened to work out pretty well. Panama is firmly locked in our tent. They really know who their friends are.
16 posted on 12/17/2006 4:47:59 PM PST by allen08gop (America -- The Arsenal For Humanity)
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To: allen08gop
Okay, but there is a whale of a lot more to that story than is published. Noriega had to go and it got to the point that he was simply asking for it. A lot, and I do mean a lot, of stuff never hit the press.

Okay, now . . . how do we take out Chavez, who is triple the threat Noriega ever was. (Personally, if we must act, I'd rather we be indirect.) Since you seem to have insider knowledge, is Ortega sufficiently "reformed" (even if for pragmatic reasons)?
17 posted on 12/17/2006 4:56:53 PM PST by sittnick (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: sittnick

Good question.

Chavez is a thug and most of the countries down here are playing this by ear but they also know who carries the big stick. They want to sell to the USA at some point.

There is a huge immigration of wealthy Venezuelans coming to Panama to ride out the storm over there. At some point, my guess is that they will hire someone to take care of the situation.

Ortega may or may not be refomed. Educated guess around here is to wait and see how the talks go between his government and the US. If we see a lot of rich Nicas coming to Panama, then we know the answer. Costa Rica is basically for the poor Nicas by the way.


18 posted on 12/17/2006 5:12:49 PM PST by allen08gop (America -- The Arsenal For Humanity)
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To: Old_Mil
Turning over the canal to Panama after we spent the blood and sweat to built it was foolish. Allowing the Chinese to get involved, even more so.

Bump. Correct.

19 posted on 12/18/2006 2:49:12 PM PST by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
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To: allen08gop
They want to sell to the USA at some point.

In the short run, yes. Long run...they are angling to have China buy up their oil.

20 posted on 12/18/2006 2:50:33 PM PST by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
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