Posted on 12/01/2006 3:08:19 PM PST by NormsRevenge
LAKE FOREST
Potential presidential candidate Barack Obama stood before one of the country's largest evangelical churches Friday for a frank discussion of sexuality and spirituality that included the declaration that condoms should be made more widely available to fight AIDS.
The Democratic senator's appearance at the Saddleback megachurch was a source of dispute among evangelical leaders, with some of the most conservative saying that a politician who supports abortion rights should not have been allowed to speak at such a prominent church.
Obama urged unity despite political differences to fight the disease that has killed 25 million people since the first case was reported in 1981. Some 40 million currently are infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.
"We are all sick because of AIDS," Obama said. "We are all challenged by this crisis."
In a show of political unity, Obama took an AIDS test with a potential White House rival on the Republican side Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas. Brownback draws his support from the conservative evangelical community, but Obama has been urging liberals not to allow Republicans to claim itself the party of Christians.
After addressing Brownback as his friend and applauding his efforts on issues such as AIDS, Obama said: "There is one thing I've got to say, Sam, though: This is my house too. This is God's house. So I just want to be clear."
In another show of bipartisanship, the Illinois senator said President Bush doesn't get enough credit for committing $15 billion against HIV and AIDS over five years.
He called the dispute over condoms a "false argument."
"I also believe we can't ignore the fact that abstinence and fidelity, although the ideal, may not always be the reality, that we're dealing with flesh and blood men and women and not abstractions, and that if condoms and potentially things like microbicides can prevent millions of deaths, then they should be made more widely available," Obama said. "That's my belief."
He said men and women often are "contracting HIV because sex was no longer part of a sacred covenant, but a mechanical physical act." He said government programs cannot solve that problem, but churches can make a real difference by providing people with a moral framework to make better choices.
"I don't care whether you're conservative or liberal, you've got to lift up that aspect of this struggle," said Obama, who at times drew applause.
Obama repeated a story that he read in the Chicago Tribune about a South African woman named Hlengiwe Leocardia Mchunu who lost five of her seven siblings to AIDS. He said he couldn't imagine what it would be like to have AIDS affect his family, but "here's the thing my faith tells me that Leo's family is my family."
The summit came on World AIDS Day and the 25th anniversary of the discovery of the disease.
On the Net:
Global Summit on AIDS: http://www.purposedriven.com
Yea, I mean, It's not like you can buy them at an gas station, supermarket, or convenice store.
"Yea, I mean, It's not like you can buy them at an gas station, supermarket, or convenice store."
Or get them free from schools and health departments.
Is anybody going to pop his baloon head to see if anything is in there beyond his vocal chords and the Crest whitening strips.
And about 50 million killed in the U.S. by abortion since Roe Vs Wade.
If the MSM were pushing him any harder, he'd have bruise marks.
"We are all sick because of AIDS," Obama said"
The South Park guys should demand royalty payments:
"Everyone has AIDS!
AIDS AIDS AIDS!
AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS!
Everyone has AIDS!
And so this is the end of our story
And everyone is dead from AIDS
It took from me my best friend
My only true pal
My only bright star (he died of AIDS)
Well I'm gonna march on Washington
Lead the fight and charge the brigades
There's a hero inside of all of us
I'll make them see everyone has AIDS"
Every native born American citizen above the age of 35 is a potential presidential candidate...however he has about as much chance as I have of getting any nomination.
Alternate NY Post headline:
Brownback, Saddleback, Brokeback?
Did he discuss the sweetheart land deal with Tony Rezko?
The more I think about it, the more I fear that we are really in a time warp sort of deja vu all over again.
It's 1974.
The GOP just got shellacked in mid-term elections. The press is telling us that the war is unpopular. The country looks weak and pathetic.
And then we have a pseudo-evangelical clown come out of nowhere and tell us he is going to clean up everything, a breathe of fresh air. This time, though, it's Barack not Jimmy.
The problem from our side is that we don't have a Reagan coming up through the ranks who is going to run in 08 against the GOP establishment and who is going to then take out an incumbent Dem president in 2012 (Whether Obama or Hillary).
What a Trifecta, huh?
Instead we have a Giuliani who will win in '08 and prevent the awful damage a 2008 Dem win would cause. And given the Dems' penchant for corruption and increasing extremist-driven zeal, even a Reagan might not win in 2012 against a Dem incumbent.
He talks up church but he votes for government control
Obama is a cross between Bill Clinton and Jesse Jackson
--
lol.. I have a couple retorts to that remark but will use my better judgment at this time and not post them. ;-)
Yep. Obama will appeal to the Reagan democrats, many of whom were populist, blue-collar, religious people who vote with their hearts and not their heads. There are a LOT of these evangelicals that will vote for anyone who talks of being born again, lust in heart, humble before the Lord, etc. etc.
Is this d-bag completely daft? Is he serious? They sell Trojans in BULK at the Costco fercrissakes, and he feels they're not widely available? He's a moron.
He says abstinence is good, but not practical because we're dealing with flesh and blood human beings... Duh, Osama. Same can be said for your argument. You can lead a 'mo to rubber, but you can't make him use it.
Oh please tell me his real middle name is Hussien? You can't make this sort of stuff up...is it true?
Duly
Noted. :-)
So, with that in mind, the MSM can only see which Democrat will win in 2008. They may think Hillary! is too radioactive and may not want to chance energizing the Republican base. Other Dems will be too liberal to be contenders in conservative areas. They just need someone with a (D) next to their name in the WH, then they own the farm and can commence plundering.
Obama is a natural front-runner. He is young but smart, good-looking (important for Democratic voters), a fresh and difficult to pigeonhole commodity. Young enough, black enough and hip enough to win over the progressives, yet clean-cut and articulate so as not to frighten the Bible belt too badly.
Unless the GOP comes up with someone who really stands out, or unless Obama dirt crops up that stick to him, look for him to be a real possibility in 2008. Maybe even a probability.
So hey GOP, who will be our Obama? Where is our golden child? Don't worry, I will not pull the (D) lever for Obama.
Instead we have a Giuliani who will win in '08 and prevent the awful damage a 2008 Dem win would cause. And given the Dems' penchant for corruption and increasing extremist-driven zeal, even a Reagan might not win in 2012 against a Dem incumbent."
Problem is, Giuliani will lose to Obama. He would have a better chance against Hillary, b/c then we will hold on to the south and to the evangelical (anyone but Hillary) vote.
But Giuliani will look about as comfortable as Dukakis in a tank if he tries to set foot in a church. Evangelical women are, embarrassingly, going to prefer Obama in droves over Giuliani.
If the hard core single issue social conservative vote has to choose between a sympathetic and believing pro choice/pro gay Obama over an unsympathetic and unbelieving pro choice/pro gay Giuliani, they will go for the former. I know there are good reasons for Giuliani wearing that women's costume and all that, but, look for that to be splashed all around the south. And look for plenty of talk of his affairs, divorces, etc., blah blah blah and his campaign in the south is going to go the way of Tim Hutchison's did in Arkansas a few years ago.
Not everywhere, of course, but in enough states to put Obama over the top.
I think if Giuliani is up against Hillary, it's a different ballgame. Fortunately, I can't imagine that she will lose the primary to him, so the match up of Giuliani to Obama will probably never happen.
But the initial point that we just got slaughtered and the Gerald Ford republicans tell us it is b/c we are too conservative while a savvy D cuts into what should be our base, makes it like 1974/1975 all over again.
There are a LOT of these evangelicals that will vote for anyone who talks of being born again, lust in heart, humble before the Lord, etc. etc."
I have had several longtime, conservative GOP evangelical women who just love GWB tell me that they are with Obama if he runs against Giuliani, for just these reasons. Now, these are the activists, who should know better. What does that tell us about the non-activist evangelical types?
Jimmy Carter, part 2. Here we go again.
The IRS says keep politics out of the churches but when blacks take it into the churches they get raves.
You can't blame the media for thinking this. Think about the math. A Dem starts with 254 EV's. That's what Kerry got and he wasn't exactly a great candidate. A half decent candidate would have doen better and he damn near unseated an incumbent President.
So, all you need is Ohio.
Ohio just went blue. In two years, there will actually be some Dem infrastructure, and no Blackwell to steal the election for us (just kidding....).
Even if they lose Ohio, they can pick up two of the following states which now appear competitive: Virginia, New Mexico, Montana, Colorado, New Hampshire. Obama puts Mark Warner on the ticket, and they start with VA in their column. Really, the math is not that difficult.
NOW...the one thing that mixes that up is if the D's nominate Hillary and we nominate Giuliani. Then, I think the whole red/blue thing is up for grabs as our candidate is non-traditional (non-southern, non-religious, liberal on much) and the D candidate will motivate our troops like no others.
So....it's not over...but...at this stage, you can't blame the MSM for thinking they are on about the 5 yard line.
They are.
And we have to choose among these 3 to stop them: McCain, Giuliani, Romney. You might as well be running Richard Nixon, Nelson Rockefeller and George Romney. Deja vu all over again.
As opposed to the "medical procedure" that has killed 35 million people since 1973.
Not allwed to do that. He's friends with Rick Warren. That would be anti-christian.
Not going to happen. I guess you missed the article in the last week that analyzed all the poll out so far, with Giuliani leading virtually all of them, including among evangelicals. A year ago Giuliani was polling in first in Georgia, and nothing has changed in that regard. And he still wins the primary when these polls narrow it down to one-on-one matchups (rather than just the ones watered down by numerous choices.) He is winning in the South and across the board demographically.
Most evangelicals are little like how they are portrayed here by the conservo-utopian crowd. We were told that they would stay home in disgust because "Conservatives have abandoned us" but in fact evangelicals turnout was virtually unchanged this last election. Most are pragmatic, and understand that Rudy is conservative on most issues and each election is about choosing the best option among an imperfect field.
Something about this guy is just a bit too pretentious. I don't get the great appeal.
Brownback reminds me of Greg Brady.
That could be part of the problem. Too many activists are emotional goofballs, who will cut off their nose to spite their face when their utopian dream bubbles get burst. Not at all representative of most people.
Ha. I don't care WHO he's friends with.
Obama's voting record shows he's "100% pro-choice, even including late-term, partial-birth abortions."
I'd think with that going for him, Rick would have a few words of disagreement. At least I hope he would.
I'm outraged that Rick Warren turned over the pulpit of Jesus to a Muslim. Its time for Warren to sit down and shut up.
Is Obama Christian or Muslim?
seems to depend on what group he's talking to at any given time
He's UCC so I guess that makes him an athiest.
FOFL
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