Posted on 11/24/2006 6:52:48 AM PST by presidio9
Two Turkish men who converted to Christianity went on trial Thursday for allegedly insulting "Turkishness," and of inciting religious hatred against Islam, the Anatolia news agency reported.
The trial opened just days before a visit to Turkey by Roman Catholic Pope Benedict, during which the pontiff was expected to discuss improved religious rights for the country's tiny Christian minority who complain of discrimination.
Hakan Tastan, 37, and Turan Topal, 46, are accused of making the insults and of inciting hate while allegedly trying to convert other Turks to Christianity.
The men were charged under Turkey's notorious Article 301, which has been used to bring charges against dozens of intellectuals - including Nobel prize-winning author Orhan Pamuk.
The law has widely been condemned for severely limiting free expression and European officials have demanded that Turkey change the law as part of its bid to join the European Union.
Prosecutors accused the two of allegedly telling possible converts that Islam was "a primitive and fabricated" religion and that Turks would remain "barbarians" as long they remained Muslims, Anatolia reported.
The prosecutors also accused them of speaking out against the country's compulsory military service, and compiling databases on possible converts.
Tastan and Topal, who could face up to nine years in prison, denied the accusations in court.
"I am a Turk, I am a Turkish citizen. I don't accept the accusations of insulting 'Turkishness,' " Anatolia quoted Tastan as telling the court. "I am a Christian, that's true. I explain the Bible ... to people who want to learn. I am innocent."
"I am a Turk, I am a Turkish citizen, it is impossible for me to insult 'Turkishness,"' echoed Topal, according to Anatolia.
If this is actually the case, then this is yet another sign that secular Turkey is descending into Islamic extremism. They are supposed to have full religious freedom there.
Are you kidding? People are openly talking about killing the Pope when he visits, and the government does nothing.
Turkey, where telling the truth is a crime.
As for your comment about people openly plotting to kill Benedict, that is recent. If you read the previous comment again, you will see that it acknowledges that Turkey is getting more Islamic. It is stating that in the past Turkey had a strong secular tradition (you could read about Ataturk and the founding of the Turkish Republic for more of that).
Yeah, thanks professor, I'll look into this Atook guy you speak of. Putting on jackets and ties a few years ago didn't change the fact that virtually all of the country's citizens are followers of Mohammed's death cult. You can't polish a turd.
I'm praying for a "people movement," a massive cultural phase-change, to happen in Turkey. The Christian Germans of the next generation or two may be worshipping in Turkish.
Be careful what you pray for. Iran had a "people movement" twenty years ago. Afganistan had one after they kicked the Russians out.
Iran had (1)a dictator who had (2)been as extremely harsh towards the Mullahs as he had been against his political opponents, (3)creating the religious-minded as publicly identifiable symbols of his repression and (4)allowing the extremists among the religious-minded to hijack a popular movement against the dictator, using it for their own agenda.
The real popular movement has itself been suppressed by the Mullahs, wherein they have finally managed to discard the semblence of any real open democratic process, by controlling who can and cannot stand for elected office. The Iranian Mullahs mode of operation from day-one has been one that follows classic Marxist-Leninist examples for hijacking the legitimate aims of the people for your own agenda. Like the Dimorats in this country, it starts with pretending to be something you are not, by hiding the full intent of your own agenda for as long as possible.
Christianity was the First Monotheistic Religion of Turkey.
MoHamHead's savage thugs imposed Mohammetanism on the hapless Turks, by the most cruel and barbaric methods.
.
It looks like Iraq currently has a couple "people movements" going on as we speak.
And 5) Operation Ajax.
Forget Turkey. You are just hyping propaganda. The place is no better than Egypt or Jordan.
These thoughts would/could make a lovely cartoon..
You know a cartoon.. Muslims HATE cartoons.. Because cartoons pictorially trump the language or even dialect barrier..
Even a moron can possible understand a cartoon.. Thats why the muslim leaders HATE them.. They get right down to the nitty gritty.. If ever a subject was made for a cartoon Islam was/is..
The ONLY way to defeat Islam is by laughter.. because it is indeed a cartoon of a religion.. Cartoons and Islam were made for each other.. Creative accurate pointed cartoons will be the end of Islam.. Even atheism is a step up for a muslim.. Islam is quite evil.. And agnostism (to a muslim) is even closer to God..
Islam will be destroyed by laughter.. thats WHY the mullahs HATE cartoons so...
And to think that The US was once actively encouraging the EU to admit Turkey into their union, are we nuts?
on trial for inciting hate- hmmm- that's a concept ripe for abuse- Yep- Turkey has come a long way toward democracy- oh wait- no they haven't. http://sacredscoop.com
Only the European Union can demand its removal as a condition for entry into the EU.
But the Secular Turks are at about 50-50 with regard to the Islamists. It is that serious. Of course, the Pentagon famously declared in the 1970's and early 80's that there was no Islamist threat and Islamists accounted for only a small percentage of the population. (It was a lie then, but the US gov't needed to believe that lie while dealing with the USSR).
As for "insulting Turkishness" here are additional articles on the subject to check out:
EU Slams Turkey’s Free Speech Restrictions
http://thestilettoblog.com/2006/11/10/the-daily-blade-eu-slams-turkeys-free-speech-restrictions.aspx
Should Some Speech Be Criminalized or Censored? (second item in "The Daily Blade")
http://thestilettoblog.com/2006/10/18/the-daily-blade-one-judge-no-votes.aspx
Turkish Law Insults Progressiveness
http://thestilettoblog.com/2006/10/06/the-daily-blade-turkish-law-insults-progressiveness.aspx
Look Who Has The Audacity To Lecture The USA On “Collective Conscience”
http://thestilettoblog.com/2006/08/03/the-daily-blade-look-who-has-the-audacity-to-lecture-the-usa-on-collective-conscience.aspx
A task comparable, at this point in history, to unscrambling eggs. To expelling us folks of European and African origins from the Americas. I vote that we pray for the conversion of the new anatolians. "Oh, for a thousand Turks to sing, my great Redeemer's praise!"
Get back to me when you can think of a working peaceful Muslim democracy where all enjoy religious freedom. The stated goal of Islam is the suppression of all other religions. Forcibly if necessary.
Um, possibly, but those posessions were stolen over 2000 years ago. Turkey is the remnants of the Ottoman Empire, which in turn are the remnants of the Roman Empire.
No, the Ottoman Empire pushed the Eastern Roman Empire to the west by bringing in Turkic tribes from Central Asia. There is no historical continuity. Also, there were 500,000 ethnic Greeks (families there since at least the 300's) still living there until forced out by the riots and massacres in 1955, only 50 years ago. A hundred years ago there were still 4,000,000 Christians in Asia Minor ("Turkey"), now there are virtually none. They didn't become Turks, but like any area with a Muslim majority were eventually either killed or exiled. Islam is the universal solvent, it destroys everything it touches.
Yes, we are.
I was not attempting to make any point about a "working peaceful Muslim democracy", or the prospect of one. In fact, my point was, if you read it clearly, that it was the Iranian clerics who, due to their religious convictions hijacked a popular movement against a dictator, in the name of that religion.
Clear majorities of Iranian people voted in a manner they believed was against the ruling clerics in the 1990s and elected a President they believed was a reformer, who would moderate the influence of the clerics.
As it turned out, he was less of a reformer than he was popularly given credit for, and due to the actual reform movement that gained majorities in the Iranian parliament, the Mullahs began to countermand the changes sought by that parliament, by decree.
To avoid that prospect in the future, the Mullahs changed the rules so that real reformers would not pass their religious review committees established to approve candidates.
Thus, no real reformers were able to run for either the parliament or the presidency in the last election, and "democracy" has become a pretense and a sham from what the "revolution" of 1979 promised.
Turkey had been, since its founding at the end of the Ottoman Empire, a stable, relatively peaceful predominately Muslim nation with a completely secular government and religious freedom, and remained on that track until very recently.
The "ruling classes" who had run Turkey since it became a nation had managed to maintain a government and society with a "western outlook". But any group who remains on top for a long time becomes corrupt.
Unfortunately, another major secular movement with a reform agenda did not create a new majority, but a religious-based movement running on the guise of simple "reform" did.
Like many warned when that movement took hold, "reform" would not be their end goal, and it hasn't been. They have been gradually undermining Turkey's secular society and supporting, and investing state money in, religious fundamentalist groups.
Yet another example...NO TURKEY in the E.U., EVER.
He's not insulting Turkishness, he's insulting Islam, which of course is the real crime here.
So much for moderate Islamic states.
Seems like he was telling the truth. There can therefore be only one outcome. NOT GUILTY But, alas, this is Islam backwardness we are dealing with. I hope these guys are spending all their time repenting. Turky is sliding backwards into Mohammadism again. SO why are we still arming them with our good military hardware?
That is completely false. Adultery, fornication and alcohol are definitely not illegal in Turkey.
AKP, the ruling party, attempted to make adultery illegal and limit the sale of alcohol, but they failed miserably and quickly retracted their proposals given the public outcry.
The Asia Minor (the land where Turkey is located) was Christian before the Turkish conquest. The Constantinople was the most glorious Christian city for more than thousand of years. At the beginning of XX century there were still millions of Christians in Turkey.
Now Christians make about one fifth of one percent of Turkish population and their number is SHRINKING! A nice addition to the New Europe, very tolerant and secular.
What a moderate, secular-minded bunch of people. We should make friends with such nice guys...NOT!
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