A Tragedy: How Toll Roads Are "Dividing" Texas (A Solution Inside)

South Texas Republicans ^ | October 30th, 2006 | Joe Solis

[SwinneySwitch]

Commentary - I continue to be astonished by the strength of the Toll party movement. Over a year ago, we were privately admonished by local leaders in San Antonio for publishing the work of Terri Hall and the San Antonio Toll Party. We felt they had something to say.

The Toll Party “Tipping Point” occurred when State Representative Carter Casteel was defeated at the hands of anti-toll candidate Nathan Macias. That is when everything changed. Think about that: An established state representative is taken out by anti-toll activists who knocked on thousands of doors spreading their message.

The Trans Texas Corridor issue has evolved. It is really about power in politics. I believe Texans are troubled about how these major decisions are made in Austin. Both conservatives in the cities and rural Texans are beyond livid about this issue. That is important.

I get the impression conservatives have come to the stark realization that ordinary Texans are essentially powerless when they are against massive corporations including Zachry, based in San Antonio, and Cintra located in Spain.

It is the classic story of the powerful versus the people.

They have lobbyists that you will never have. That’s the reality.

It is about globalization and the wealthy interests behind them. Based on what I have seen and heard, people are also furious about our own government taking the land of our Texan children and grandchildren and shipping the quasi deeds back to the old Spanish Empire.

Yes, it is personal and it is real.

Billions of dollars are at stake. I am talking about your money.

It is sad that Texans are fighting Texans over this issue.

Our leaders in Austin have put us in that position.

I have a solution.

Hold a referendum election on the T.T.C. in January 2007.

Trust the people.

Let Texans vote on this specific issue.

I know this is wishful thinking. Why?

Your voice means nothing to many of our elites in Austin.

That my friends is the real tragedy of this issue.

Vote your values this year.

[SwinneySwitch]

“No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.” ~ Edmund Burke (1729-1797)

[SwinneySwitch]

Texas Toll Party Ping!

[Ben Ficklin]

If Solis doesn't like the TTC, he needs to come up with an alternative. Let the Texas voter decide between the TTC and Solis'(or Grandma's) alternative.

[BobL]

"I have a solution. Hold a referendum election on the T.T.C. in January 2007."

Great idea, but I can't see that happening, as it would set a precedent of moving power away from the elites.

It's not just the taking of land, it's the essential lockdown of our freeway system that will wind up being Governor Perry's final legacy here. Decades from now there will be millions of Texas wondering, as they're paying huge amounts of money to basically travel anywhere "why the hell did he EVER agree to those terms". (those terms being monopoly-type protections, with virtually unlimited tolling ability for the companies involved)

No different than today's politicians in San Diego trying to understand why their predecessors agreed to such expensive pension plans - except that San Diego can get out of those obligations by simply going bankrupt. Texas doesn't have that option.

[Paleo Conservative]

Decades from now there will be millions of Texas wondering, as they're paying huge amounts of money to basically travel anywhere "why the hell did he EVER agree to those terms". (those terms being monopoly-type protections, with virtually unlimited tolling ability for the companies involved)

Fifty years after completion the roads will revert to state ownership.

Pro TTC

This is a pro Trans-Texas Corridor ping list.

Please let me know by Freepmail if you want on or off the list.

[narby]

If Solis doesn't like the TTC, he needs to come up with an alternative.

Easy. Build freeways like there's no tomorrow. If Arizona can do it, Texas can. I've been here in AZ for 10 years, and they've added miles and miles and miles of freeways, and doing it sometimes through existing neighborhoods when necessary by tearing down houses that were only a few years old.

How'd we pay for it? Easy. From the new taxes on people who move in here. And we're not illegal aliens either. An article in the local rag the other day said that the hottest housing market in Phx is in the $3 million and up range. And the rest of the housing market is "normal", despite a downturn in other places.

[BobL]

"Fifty years after completion the roads will revert to state ownership."

I won't be around, but I'll be stuck having to explain to my kids and grandkids why a Republican governor sold out the state that I love(d) before then.

[BobL]

"Easy. Build freeways like there's no tomorrow."

That's too creative for our wonder-child governor here, along with his sycophants.

[1rudeboy]

Here's the relevant section of the Texas State Constitution, as amended by popular vote in 2001 or 2002 (I believe), that created the Texas Mobility Fund--which itself authorizes the construction of toll roads.

[Paleo Conservative]

I won't be around, but I'll be stuck having to explain to my kids and grandkids why a Republican governor sold out the state that I love(d) before then.

People will be asking how Texas replaced California as the most dynamic and populous state in the union.

[Ben Ficklin]

Apples and oranges.

[Ben Ficklin]

If that is such a good idea, why hasn't Grandma, Bell, Kooky, Solis, Texas Toll Party, and/or anyone else put together some budegetary numbers to compare the two options.

[Dog Gone]

I won't be around, but I'll be stuck having to explain to my kids and grandkids why a Republican governor sold out the state that I love(d) before then.

I can't quite figure out what the opposition is saying. No more roads in Texas?

Perhaps, no more new roads that they won't have to pay for?

Or just no new roads that go to evil Canada and Mexico?

[itsahoot]

Fifty years after completion the roads will revert to state ownership.

Sure and after the Golden Gate Bridge is paid for the toll will be discontinued......Oh never mind.

[BobL]

"If that is such a good idea, why hasn't Grandma, Bell, Kooky, Solis, Texas Toll Party, and/or anyone else put together some budegetary numbers to compare the two options."

Because they all run scared of people like you guys. You expect some Don Juan from Spain to come here and build us a highway system for FREE. The details (like monopoly protection) don't matter - you're under his spell.

I kept my kids out of public schools so that they wouldn't have to continually be experimented on (whole language, fuzzy math, etc.). It looks like this governor is going to run one hell of an experiment on Texas - and his plan is SOOO perfect that he hasn't even seen a need to adjust it (other than to stop attempting to put toll booth on existing freeways - at least through his re-election).

We'll see how this plays out...

[BobL]

Real Clear. The opposition doesn't appreciate being experimented on. Specifically, increase the gas tax a dime or two and end the diversion of highway money to the schools. Or at least give Texans a chance to decide between the two - rather than shoving it down our throats.

That would be a start.

[Ben Ficklin]

The fact is, no one has proposed an alternative. And you know why.

[sam_paine]

Sure and after the Golden Gate Bridge is paid for the toll will be discontinued......

Hey!!! Whaddya complaining about!?!? They only make you pay a toll one way! :-)

[1rudeboy]

Is there some sort of magic road somewhere that no longer requires maintenance after 50 years?

[Dog Gone]

No, how about having the people who actually use the road pay for it? It's actually a conservative idea. It's the exact opposite of shoving it down your throat.

If I don't choose to use the TTC, I won't have to pay 20 cents a gallon more for those of you who do.

Try to think like a non-socialist.

[BobL]

"The fact is, no one has proposed an alternative. And you know why."

I hear it from you guys every time I comment on the subject. You can't figure out where to find an $100 to pay for gas, while you're attempting to saddle me and millions of others with thousands of dollars in tolls.

I don't appreciate it.

[Ben Ficklin]

Strayhor's Transportation Plan Reads Like Bad Science Fiction

[1rudeboy]

No one is forcing you to take the road at gunpoint. You don't want to pay for it, then stay off it.

[BobL]

"If I don't choose to use the TTC, I won't have to pay 20 cents a gallon more for those of you who do."

Nice try - I'm not in the mood to take your bait this time - we all know that our freeway system will ROT ON THE VINE once this tollway system gets put in place.

I'm done - signing off.

[1rudeboy]

The freeway system in Chicago hasn't suffered after Cintra took over operation of the Skyway. That's probably because people (and politicians) instinctively understand that a tollway that leads from points A to B won't get you from C to D.

[Dog Gone]

we all know that our freeway system will ROT ON THE VINE once this tollway system gets put in place.

That's not even a logical statement, but if you can't stand the heat, you know what to do.

[deport]

The TTC or toll road issue in Texas has about ran it course for the time being. The election is a few days off and the antis will have spent their wad.... It will be sometime next summer before the Feds decide yea or nay on the next round of studies which will basically define the route.

The issue will continue in the national spotlight a bit with some pushing the illegal issue. Corsi, Phyllis, Buchanan, and the sort will mix the pot nationally but its wings won't grow back until the 08 election. jmo.

[1rudeboy]

Did you mean to mispell Strayhorn's name? Either way . . . rather amusing.

[Ben Ficklin]

Now that is a bad typo.

[wolfcreek]

Here's the relevant section of the Texas State Constitution, as amended by popular vote in 2001 or 2002 (I believe), that created the Texas Mobility Fund--which itself authorizes the construction of toll roads.

Yeh, I'm sure everyone, who voted in those elections, read section 49-k or the rest for that matter. Like most things the Legislature dictate to us, it's hidden in some long-winded bill. I doubt any of you pro-TTC types read the entire bill. To me, this is just one more case of too much Gov. in our lives but, that seems to be the current direction of the GOP.

The TTC is an entirely different entity from the rest of the roads, toll or otherwise, based on the way and by whom it's financed. Let the voters decide on this particular issue without trying to find it in section 49-K.

[1rudeboy]

There was a Proposition, the text of which is available somewhere online (I'm sure), that the citizens of Texas voted-on and approved. Don't turn this into a remedial Civics class.

[Hydroshock]

Yes they will, but not because of this boondoggle. It will not be built. There is to much growing opposition. I have the feeling the legislature will kill this next year. And I will do what ever I can to push them to it.

[Kenny Bunk]

I won't have to pay 20 cents a gallon more for those of you who do.

Of course, you'll pay both. I'm from the government, and I am here to help.

I was just on an otherwise beautiful parkway in New Jersey, fighting my way back to Norumbega, and it seemed I was paying a toll every 1,000 yards, or so, as I drew closer to my goal of leaving the state, apparently so I could pay a big toll to cross a bridge in New York, but not before spending an hour in line.

[1rudeboy]

Oh, heck . . . .

PROPOSITION 15 (SJR 16)
"The constitutional amendment creating the Texas Mobility Fund and authorizing grants and loans of money and issuance of obligations for financing the construction, reconstruction, acquisition, operation, and expansion of state highways, turnpikes, toll roads, toll bridges, and other mobility projects."

I see one sentence. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[1rudeboy]

The text of the Proposition can be found here, for your reading pleasure.

[1rudeboy]

How would he pay both? I live in Illinois, and the Tollway Authority here has yet to figure out a way into my wallet as long as I don't use it.

[Kenny Bunk]

How would he pay both? Well, in many states, the toll road, turnpike, etc. always seems to wind up being the only way to actually get anywhere in an efficient manner. Rivers are also a problem.

[wolfcreek]

There was a Proposition, the text of which is available somewhere online (I'm sure), that the citizens of Texas voted-on and approved. Don't turn this into a remedial Civics class.


Like I said, let the people decide on this single issue without it being buried in a mountain of paperwork. These items were voted on during low-turnout, off-cycle elections. IMO, the majority of voters had NO idea everything they were voting on. The TTC is much too important to not allow public input.

[1rudeboy]

I was debating myself whether to re-post comment #34 in a larger font, but decided against it. I have more faith in the people of Texas than you, apparently.

[1rudeboy]

Well, in many states, the toll road, turnpike, etc. always seems to wind up being the only way to actually get anywhere in an efficient manner.

You are still wrestling with the issue of time vs. money, I gather.

[Froufrou]

"Fifty years after completion the roads will revert to state ownership."

50 Years?! That's past my lifetime! I HATE the idea and I almost didn't vote for Perry because of it! Have you driven the one in Houston? Just to get to Hobby took over $5!!! That was beer money for the flight! ARGH!

Pro TTC ping? Not me, no sireee!

[wolfcreek]

There were 16 different proposed amendments during that election. Do you honestly think the voters read each one of them in detail? I'm telling you, as a Texan, the TTC was not what the voters agreed to in that election. It was not put forth to them in it's existing form. The opposition to the TTC now is explanation enough.

[Tokra]

I was just on an otherwise beautiful parkway in New Jersey, fighting my way back to Norumbega, and it seemed I was paying a toll every 1,000 yards, or so, as I drew closer to my goal of leaving the state, apparently so I could pay a big toll to cross a bridge in New York, but not before spending an hour in line.

Try the Michigan solution - we don't have toll roads. Our freeways are free. I hate it when I drive through other states and have to pay money for the privilege of driving on their freeways.

I guess that's why we call them "free"ways.

We do have to pay a toll to go across the bridges or tunnel to Canada and across the Mackinac Bridge - but our roads are FREE - as everyone's should be.

[archy]

I won't be around, but I'll be stuck having to explain to my kids and grandkids why a Republican governor sold out the state that I love(d) before then.

Let me help you. Memorize this: Estoy apesadumbrado pero un gobernador Republicano vendió hacia fuera el estado que amo para ti ambos.

[SwinneySwitch]

The Texas Constitution

Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS

Section 26 - PERPETUITIES AND MONOPOLIES; PRIMOGENITURE OR ENTAILMENTS

Perpetuities and monopolies are contrary to the genius of a free government, and shall never be allowed, nor shall the law of primogeniture or entailments ever be in force in this State.

[archy]

Texas Toll Party Ping!

The least you coulda done was to include the website link, pardner.

[GSWarrior]

uhh...how about privatizing all roads?

[1rudeboy]

There were 16 different proposed amendments during that election. Do you honestly think the voters read each one of them in detail?

And you propose what, exactly? A do-over because things didn't go your way? Do you want to vote for those of your citizens not smart enough, or "stuck in Iraq," or whatever?

[1rudeboy]

Well, then. Enjoy life in your powerless shack.

[1rudeboy]

Other than Pennsylvania, Michigan has the worst roads in the nation, in my opinion. If there is a state that needs privatized roadways, Michigan is near the top of the list.