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Turks Knock on Europe’s Door With Evidence That Islam and Capitalism Can Coexist
NY Times ^
| 8-27-06
| DAN BILEFSKY
Posted on 08/27/2006 7:54:59 AM PDT by jdm
KAYSERI, Turkey As the muezzin heralded the noon prayers on a recent Friday, a small army of workers fanned out from an industrial park to take their places on mats in a nearby mosque. Fifteen minutes later, the prayers were over and the teachings of the Koran gave way to the demands of the factory floor.
In European countries, workers take a 15-minute smoking break; here we take a 15-minute prayer break, said Ahmet Herdem, the mayor of Hacilar, a town of 20,000 people in central Anatolia, a deeply religious and socially conservative region which has produced some of the best-known Turkish companies. During this time, you are in front of God, and you can ask him to help improve business and this is good for morale.
Many Europeans and secular Turks have dismissed this poor, largely agricultural region as the other Turkey, a non-European backwater where women in head scarves are more prevalent than businessmen in pinstripes. Islam, they argue, never went through its own Reformation and so is not receptive to capitalism and innovation.
Yet Kayseri and surrounding towns like Hacilar have produced so many successful Muslim entrepreneurs that the area has earned the title of Anatolian tiger.
Carpet weavers are being supplanted by textile companies that produce clothing for fashion houses in Paris and Milan, while sheep farmers now share land with giant furniture manufacturers. Companies that have started here include Orta Anadolu, which makes 1 percent of the worlds denim; Boydak Holding, a giant conglomerate that includes a bank, a transport arm and the largest Turkish cable factory; and Istikbal, a furniture company whose yellow and blue label can be found in stores across Turkey.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: capitalism; islam; nytreasontimes; sickmanofeurope; treasonmedia; turkey; turks
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1
posted on
08/27/2006 7:55:00 AM PDT
by
jdm
To: jdm
There's no doubt that Islam and capitalism can exist together, as the Saudis and other kingdoms has shown with their vast wealth - so this article is meant to deceive.
The real question is whether humans can co-exist with Muslims. That is what needs to be studied.
2
posted on
08/27/2006 8:01:35 AM PDT
by
BobL
To: jdm
Islam and Western ways cannot coexist. They may make an uneasy arrangement in some countries, but let there be no doubt that the aim of a global Islamic caliphate will not include any tolerance for anything un-Islamic. I am not sure how the global Islamic caliphate plans its economy. Probably a lot of subsistance farming and local crafts. I am not sure how technology and finance can continue under Islam...hopefully we will not have to find out.
3
posted on
08/27/2006 8:02:33 AM PDT
by
Sender
(“Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.”)
To: jdm
If they follow the Koran, they cannot live side by side.
Also, there is a problem amoung muslims about borrowing money.
4
posted on
08/27/2006 8:06:51 AM PDT
by
upcountryhorseman
(An old fashioned conservative)
To: BobL
I'm not too sure that the institutionalized corruption and squandering of their resources that goes on in Saudi Arabia is "capitalism".
It's a matter of semantics.
Westerners would take 15 minutes to download porn. Moslems take 15 minutes to pray.
Well, some of the Moslems will download porn, too. But they aren't supposed to.
5
posted on
08/27/2006 8:07:30 AM PDT
by
Utahrd
To: BobL
I searched the NYT article for any mention of Turkey's brutal, 32-year occupation of EU member Cyprus.
If anything, Turkey is demonstrating that Islamists can mount a bloody invasion of a sovereign European nation, savage its citizenry, trash its heritage, use thousands of priceless holy places and the earliest relics from the dawn of Christianity as stables and toilets and for target practice... and the white-flag Euroweenies and impotent United Nations will do absolutely nothing.
Turkey should exit Cyprus and make apologies and restitution to that beautiful country for its brutality before there are any discussions with the EU at all. The fact that that's not happening speaks volumes about the EU and UN.
To: Utahrd
You are right regarding the Saudis, and I mainly using them as a launching point. I don't think that reasonable Europeans fear Turkey from an economic standpoint, it's strictly fear of the social impacts.
7
posted on
08/27/2006 8:09:46 AM PDT
by
BobL
To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
8
posted on
08/27/2006 8:10:56 AM PDT
by
BobL
To: jdm
You know, with the proliferation of Muslim "prayer rooms" in the workplace (including airports), I sometimes wonder what would happen if every Christian decided to stop everything and pray, looking east to Jerusalem, three times a day as David did. The ACLU would have a s**t fit, call us all weirdos, dangerous, fanatical, etc. So why don't those words apply to Islam? Hmmmm.
To: BobL
There's no doubt that Islam and capitalism can exist together, as the Saudis and other kingdoms has shown with their vast wealth - so this article is meant to deceive. The real question is whether humans can co-exist with Muslims. That is what needs to be studied.I disagree with your first point. Wealth is not the same as capitalism--Fidel Castro is one of the richest men in the world. The Saudi wealth is an accident of the distribution of fossil fuel resources. An emphatically non-capitalist culture is wealthy as a result. Capitalism results in wealth CREATION. Saudi wealth is parasitical and zero-sum.
Your second point is well-taken.
To: jdm
More one sided BS, from the paper that likes to write about the "religion of peace."
The Turks are Ottomans- The Turks are 'the' most Western, the most moderate, Muslim nation there is period. They desire membership to the EU and are a NATO member. That said, the writer of the articles is trying to use the exception to prove the rule. In Turkey you have a relatively high educated population (What Muslim nations is concerned) and while they are Muslims, they have few Whabbists', and other schools of thought that are radical as is the case in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and elsewhere.
The author is trying to prove a rule with an exception.
11
posted on
08/27/2006 8:31:14 AM PDT
by
Red6
To: jdm
Islam and capitalism can exist together. It's Islam and everything else that cannot exist together.
How can you honestly trust aperson who follows a faith that teaches him to either convert, enslave or kill non-believers? A faith with a holy text that teaches it is acceptable to lie and deceive non-believers in order to lower their guard to your true intentions and to make it easier for believers to move within hostile cultures for the purpose of carrying out their creed of jihad?
Deep down, one cannot trust even the most kind and gentle adherent to this faith because if they are a true believer, how can you ever be sure the kindness and gentleness is not designed to deceive you?
12
posted on
08/27/2006 8:37:09 AM PDT
by
Buckeye Battle Cry
(Life is too short to go through it clenched of sphincter and void of humor - it's okay to laugh.)
To: jdm
I gotta call BS. It co-exists on a slow boil basis. Anarchy and reversion to tribal alliances is just a bad word away with these folks.
13
posted on
08/27/2006 8:37:49 AM PDT
by
kinghorse
(I calls them like I sees them)
To: jdm
How many Christians remain in Turkey (which used to be called Asia Minor and was Christian for many centuries?
About 00.15% ! (~100 thousand in 70 million)
14
posted on
08/27/2006 8:45:50 AM PDT
by
A. Pole
(Psalm 146: "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.")
To: jdm
Ah yes, all you need to have Islam co-exist with capitalism is to have a strong secular military ready to give the smackdown at any moment.
15
posted on
08/27/2006 8:48:05 AM PDT
by
thoughtomator
(There is no "Islamofascism" - there is only Islam)
To: jdm
The only reason that Turkey is capitalist at all is because of Mustafa Ataturk. His drastic liberalization of Turkish society essentially forced western style reform on the Turkish populace, much of it against their will. Part of this reform included killing radical muslims. Had it not been for his reforms Turkey today would be indistinguishable from Syria.
Moreover, Turkey doesn't have the vast oil reserves of many of its Muslim neighbors. It maintains some semblence of capitalism for its own economic survival. It needs capitalism because it needs cash.
Lastly, this article smacks of yet another attempt by the NYT to show how 'moderate' Islam actually is. The fact of the matter is that Turkey is an Islamic aberration, a freak of the Muslim world, nearly the only Islamic nation of its kind, and only by dint of forced reforms nearly 100 years ago.
16
posted on
08/27/2006 8:56:19 AM PDT
by
navyguy
To: BobL
"Turks Knock on Europes Door With Evidence That Islam and Capitalism Can Coexist"
"The real question is whether humans can co-exist with Muslims. That is what needs to be studied."
No it does not.. the results are in and conclusive...
It is time for a wide spread abatement program where ever concentrations appear.
W
17
posted on
08/27/2006 8:57:33 AM PDT
by
WLR
("fugit impius nemine persequente iustus autem quasi leo confidens absque terrore erit")
To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
This was also exemplified by the now denied Armenian holocaust. The Turks slaughtered millions of Armenians in a matter of days and obliterated their culture. Try and find any examples of Armenian arts, crafts, architecture, whatever. Among other motivating factors, it was largely an anti-Christian thing as the Young Pashas had the Patriarch of the Armenian Orthodox Church murdered on the steps of the cathedral. The Germans helped, by the way. This was during the time of the rise of Ataturk. The Turks now deny the whole thing. The EU is attempting in a wimpy fashion to get the Turks to admit what happened before they join the EU but I think it unlikely ever to be acknowledged. The Turks are every bit as untrustworthy as all the other Islamic nations - perhaps the more so because they don't come off as "radicalized" the way Iran does. You don't see women in veils, etc. for example.
To: navyguy
Mustafa Ataturk was also responsible for the Armenian holocaust - which the Turks now deny. Millions of Armenians were slaughtered in a matter of days. I say Turkey is still indistinguishable from Syria - the Armenian slaughter was an anti-Christian, anti-Western thing. Turkey is as bad or worse than the rest.
To: WLR
...I was just trying to bring the NYT into at least taking a look at the obvious.
20
posted on
08/27/2006 9:12:56 AM PDT
by
BobL
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