Police property: It’s finders keepers in NH

New Hampshire Union Leader ^ | 8/24/2006

[LiveFreeOrDieTryin]

Police property: It’s finders keepers in NH

9 hours, 28 minutes ago

The state Supreme Court ruled on Tuesday that the government can keep and destroy more than 500 CDs taken from Michael Cohen, owner of Pitchfork Records in Concord, in 2003 even though the state failed to prove that a single disk was illegal.

Cohen was arrested for attempting to sell bootleg recordings. But the police case collapsed when it turned out that most of the recordings were made legally. Police dropped six of the seven charges, and Cohen went to trial on one charge. He beat it after the judge concluded that the recording was legal.

However, the police refused to return Cohen’s CDs. In the state Supreme Court’s Tuesday ruling, Chief Justice John Broderick, writing for the majority, reasoned so poorly that it appeared as if he’d made up his mind ahead of time.

Dissenting, Justice Linda Dalianis wrote, perceptively, that “the majority does not explain how statutes prohibiting the production, publication, or sale of certain works render possession of such works unlawful.”

Further, Dalianis concluded that “the state’s failure to establish in any way that the seized property constitutes contraband” made it impossible to justify keeping Cohen’s property.

Indeed, the majority’s reasoning is chilling. The majority concedes that no crime or illegal act was proven, but allows the confiscation anyway by concluding that a crime might have been committed. The majority used words such as “apparently,” “likely” and “would have” to describe the alleged illegal activity.

It should go without saying that speculation by a few judges that a crime might have been committed is a frightening basis for taking someone’s property.

Earlier this year, Nashua police confiscated video recordings of two officers being rude to a citizen at his own home. Though police dropped all charges against Michael Gannon and admitted they could not prove the recordings were illegal, they still kept the tapes.

If someone is found with cocaine or any other item clearly illegal to possess, confiscation is easily justified. But the illegality of these items was never proven, and mere possession was not itself illegal.

If the government can seize and keep a citizen’s property by simply asserting that it is contraband, even when the assertion is unsupported by the facts, then we have entered into dangerous territory.

[LiveFreeOrDieTryin]

I'm struck dumb by this. There's no logic in the world that supports this kind of thinking. And I'm shocked that it's happening here in NH, where we understand the US Constitution.

[Al Gator]

Maybe the Free State project needs to kick it up a notch.

[patton]

Bump.

[Protagoras]

And I'm shocked that it's happening here in NH, where we understand the US Constitution.

They have the guns.

I always wondered, why can FReepers show up in numbers to a "hate Hillary" demonstration but I never hear about big protest demonstrations against this kind of egregious usurpation of rights?

[Leftism is Mentally Deranged]

We have lost most of our freedoms. "Free speech" and "Free country" are just a waste of air.

[IllumiNaughtyByNature]

Remember the libs have packed the courts for years. They have the socialist, everybody owns nothing, take from the rich and redistribute, hot air mentality. Why should it be shocking that far left libs judges actually do what they advocate?

They wear Che Guevera and Stalin T shirts, kiss Castro' a$$ and hug Chavez at every opportunity.

IMO of course.

[Graymatter]

They're getting more brazen every day.
19th c. Americans would have tarred and feathered a few by now.

[Sunshine Sister]

Apparently the judges don't understand the Constitution. What a shame. This is going to spread all over the country. Just hide and watch.

[PreviouslyA-Lurker]

read again later

[D-Chivas]

Looks like the "Die" part of "Live Free Or Die" is becoming New Hampshire's main motto.

[Captain Rhino]

This use of the designation contraband for suspect property (and attendant presumption of its illegality) is appropriately used as the basis for charging an offense. But after a judicial proceeding finds that the property in question is not illegal (and therefore cannot be not contraband) or illegally held, for the state to continue to hold the accused person's property and then destroy it has, at best, all the marks of judicial and police abuse of power and, at worst, tyranny.

Punishment on the basis of the allegation alone is not justice, not even procedural justice.

I hope he can afford to appeal, although those Cd's have probably already become very expensive.

One question: are state court judges elected in New Hampshire?

[daylate-dollarshort]

We used to have a ranch and part of my everyday carry-around tools were a 4 1/2 inch folding knife and a folding castrating knife. I was stopped at the local shopping center by a police officer who spotted the belt holster for the 4 1/2 inch folding knife. The officer seized the knife and searched me which of course turned up the castrating knife. He seized both knives and charged me with carrying the folding knife and carrying a concealed weapon- the castrating knife. (BTW, I HAD a concealed weapon permit for a handgun but the officer said that permit didn't apply to knives!)

All charges were subsequently dropped as I had commited no violation but when I attempted to get my tools- the knives- back the police refused to return them. I fought for more than a year to get these knives returned. Finally I got the judge to ORDER their return. It was then that I found out that the knives were not in the posesssion of the Police Department, rather the officer that took them from me had them. I had to sue him to get them back. Took just over two years.

Go figure...........................

[dirtboy]

It was then that I found out that the knives were not in the posesssion of the Police Department, rather the officer that took them from me had them. I had to sue him to get them back. Took just over two years.

He should have been fired for that.

[thoughtomator]

The logic is very simple. The state can take what it wants because it has bigger guns than you.

[ohioman]

I think that the State does not have an appropriate amount of fear of the people.

[Oshkalaboomboom]

New Hampshire is nothing like it used to be. A lot of people moved up from Massachusetts to avoid the taxes but they brought their Liberal mindsets along. It can barely claim to be a conservative state anymore.

[Shimmer128]

I didn't think that NH had any claim to being conservative at all, now this.
ugh

[Ancesthntr]

Indeed, the majority’s reasoning is chilling. The majority concedes that no crime or illegal act was proven, but allows the confiscation anyway by concluding that a crime might have been committed. The majority used words such as “apparently,” “likely” and “would have” to describe the alleged illegal activity.

It should go without saying that speculation by a few judges that a crime might have been committed is a frightening basis for taking someone’s property.

If the government can seize and keep a citizen’s property by simply asserting that it is contraband, even when the assertion is unsupported by the facts, then we have entered into dangerous territory.

This is sick beyond belief. It is a direct product of the War on (Some) Drugs and gun control - the idea that an object, in and of itself, is guilty of something.

The judges in question should be impeached or, if they're elected and the system allows for it, recalled. The state legislature also should pass a law specifically forbidding this kind of action. If the alleged perp is found to have committed no crime, then his/her property MUST be returned. If the police refuse to do so, or can't because some corrupt cop took it for himself, then someone's got to go to jail, and the law has to provide for full replacement value reimbursement, legal fees, court costs and some penalty for lost time and aggravation - to come out of the salaries of the cops concerned and the department's budget.

[zeugma]

I'd be willing to bet good money that the 'justices' in this case leaned extraordinarily heavily on precidents from the "War on Drugs" (also known as the War on the Constitution). Does anyone know if the ruling or dissent is online?

[zeugma]

The logic is very simple. The state can take what it wants because it has bigger guns than you.

It's not the fact that their guns are bigger. The real rub is the fact that they are more than willing to use them given just about any pretext. 

[quantfive]

"They have the guns."

You may have a point. Here in New Hampshire, if you convicted of a Domestic Violence crime which is about 1/2 of the population, you lose the right to carry arms. You can expunge your record after 4 years of the crime. If you live in New Hampshire and you push your wife away while she attacks you, you both get a misdemeanor for 'mutual combat.' So you get high numbers of these cases which:

A) Is a big money maker for the state
b) Your constitutional right to carry arms suspended

I am not saying domestic violence is right, it is not right. I am saying the penalties for this crime are extreme to say the least and have not solved the problem in any way.

[quantfive]

"One question: are state court judges elected in New Hampshire?"

No, they are nominated by the governor and approved by an election board. They have had major issues, no surprise:

http://www.ajs.org/js/NH.htm

I lived in New Hampshire most of my life and my business is here. I moved to Maine because I couldn't stand the judicial system and police, which focuses on petty crimes of driving offenses and domestic violence, turning all citizens into criminals.

Beyond this obvious problem of not electing judges, they appoint 'marital masters' to preside over Supreme Court cases which are all liberal feminazis. The appointments were originally designed for training purposes to become judges but due to budget cuts these appointments became permanent.

In other words, people with very little legal experience are serving as 'judges'. My ex-wife kept taking me to court to get custody using bogus charges. It was all so she could get child support and a free ride. While I easily beat these cases, I never received child support owed to me, in the thousands of dollars even though my ex-wife is a nurse. I caught her lying in Superior Court and had written evidence of perjury. The martial master glossed right over this and didn't even give my ex a warning. Our court system here is screwed.

[Defiant]

Sounds like he has a basis for taking it to federal court on a civil rights claim. Civil rights encompass all the rights in our constitution, including the due process clause, and this would violate due process rights with respect to property ownership, in my opinion.

[Sir Gawain]

In my world, thieves get killed.

[Jim Verdolini]

It's called 'stealing'....Government is very good at it.

[Holicheese]

Or maybe the cops all want a copy of Meatloaf, Styx and Kansas live at Hampton Beach bootlegs for their personal collections.
Welcome to the grand illusion......

[TexasTransplant]

In Louisiana any large ($5,000.00 or so) amounts of cash will get everything confiscated, and you ARE GUILTY until pr oven otherwise.

TT

[TexasTransplant]

>>>>"It was then that I found out that the knives were not in the possession of the Police Department, rather the officer that took them from me had them. I had to sue him to get them back"<<<<

At least you got your stuff back, I had thousands of $ worth of tools stolen from my shed, Reported the break-in to the local seat belt enforcement tax collecting officers and they informed me that I need to come in and file a report, (no one came out), I arrived at 7:30am which was about an hour and a half too early for the skirt chasing doughnut eating POS to simply take the list of items that had been stolen (3 to 5 seconds of interaction) I am dismissed.

Later I find a set of keys in my yard near the shed, for a Mercury, I drive up to the local Katrina Refugee Hostel and press the "lock" button and shazaaam I have a vehicle, I take this information to the POS dough nut eaters and they get my stuff and tons of other stuff that has been stolen by the unfortunate Katrina Refugee.

I am thinking "cool I'm gonna get my stuff back" NOTTTT!

POS dough nut eaters Auctioned it all off as "unclaimed" even though I provided them with a list, serial numbers, told them where I had engraved my name etc etc etc without even notifying me.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF"EM and the Judges/Mayors that Enable them, they are nothing but Tax Collecting, Nanny Cop, Fences for thieves, crooks and criminals, I have NO RESPECT for these scum bags at all

(I sat back and cooled off twice, then cooled off again! I stand by the above post... I will trust a Gangbanger POS before I trust local LE, one is honest and straight forward with their intentions, the other is a sneaky slimy POS liar) TT

[freepatriot32]

well this isnt much of a suprise considering legal money being legally carried on a public road can be confiscated according to a federal district court. now legal cds being proven legal in state court can be kept and taken home and listened to and resold to the public on ebay (err umm i mean destoyed yeah thats the ticket destroy them wich im sure the cops will do) by nh police

dont you all just love living inthe land of the free wich in no way shape or form resembles a police state according to the bots here on fr

Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here

[Centurion2000]

Earlier this year, Nashua police confiscated video recordings of two officers being rude to a citizen at his own home. Though police dropped all charges against Michael Gannon and admitted they could not prove the recordings were illegal, they still kept the tapes.

So outright theft is tolerated in this police department? Criminy where is Claire Wolfe?

[Centurion2000]

The state can take what it wants because it has bigger guns than you.

Are they sure about that?

[elkfersupper]

Try that with a firearm.

4 years and counting.

[daylate-dollarshort]

"Try that with a firearm."

?

[mugs99]

This is going to spread all over the country

It's been happening all over the country for years. Money, cars, boats, airplanes and homes have been taken even tough no crime was committed. It's been a part of the war on drugs. Now they're expanding drug war tactics to media pirating.
.

[CSM]

"If the government can seize and keep a citizen’s property by simply asserting that it is contraband, even when the assertion is unsupported by the facts, then we have entered into dangerous territory."\

We entered dangerous territory a long time ago! Given the Kelo decision and the support for smoking bans, many FReepers even support trampling property rights!

[caver]

Geez, and a lot of people wonder why some Freepers are so down on cops.

[Toby06]

What a crock.

[caver]

What state do you live in?

[ohioman]

I worry about the same thing happening to SW Ohio. We get a lot of transplants from the LEAST Coast.

[mo]

"This is going to spread all over the country. Just hide and watch....."

What people seem to forget- and this includes Freepers-
is that this cr#% goes on only as long as we the people allow it to......

[JeffAtlanta]

Remember the libs have packed the courts for years.

This isn't a liberal issue - conservatives are just as bad on this issue if not worse.

Most of this is a result of the war on drugs which is the brainchild of conservatives.